Development Rumours

[Empire]

Originally Posted by JET

Guessing that you haven’t been to Dartmouth Down Town lately?

Sure have. Most spots are nice but small. Canteen, Oxalis, New Scotland, Battery Park, Maria's Pantry, Dear Friend etc. Once you have finished lunch, if you haven't eaten on the ship what do you do in Downtown Dartmouth?

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Empire

Sure have. Most spots are nice but small. Canteen, Oxalis, New Scotland, Battery Park, Maria's Pantry, Dear Friend etc. Once you have finished lunch, if you haven't eaten on the ship what do you do in Downtown Dartmouth?

Yes, all of these are good to great spots, but none of them are exactly fit for cruise-ship clientele (to their betterment). They’re local places, and the neighbourhood’s evolution is locally focused. I don’t think a place like Dear Friend wants a bunch of cruisers descending on the place all at once.

It would actually be quite terrible for D/T Dartmouth to start trying to shape itself as a cruise destination. Halifax is big enough that the cruisers just get absorbed into the general activity of the area, but Dartmouth would get overwhelmed. Worst case scenario, it would become some sort of kitschy tourist trap, like the Historic Properties writ large.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Yes, all of these are good to great spots, but none of them are exactly fit for cruise-ship clientele (to their betterment). They’re local places, and the neighbourhood’s evolution is locally focused. I don’t think a place like Dear Friend wants a bunch of cruisers descending on the place all at once.

It would actually be quite terrible for D/T Dartmouth to start trying to shape itself as a cruise destination. Halifax is big enough that the cruisers just get absorbed into the general activity of the area, but Dartmouth would get overwhelmed. Worst case scenario, it would become some sort of kitschy tourist trap, like the Historic Properties writ large.

Hopefully it doesn't go the route of Niagara Falls?

Ref. google maps:
Niagara Falls
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0916519,...lX9rdh35RG5WjBf9aUVRw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Generally speaking, passengers on those ships aren't the target market for craft beer

You obviously haven't been near Garrison when a cruise ship lets out...

People on vacation often like to drink beer...

[Saul Goode]

A cruise terminal in Dartmouth is a stupendously bad idea, a juvenile fantasy of misguided, starry-eyed parochial boosterism.

Just dumb, dumb, dumb.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

A cruise terminal in Dartmouth is a stupendously bad idea, a juvenile fantasy of misguided, starry-eyed parochial boosterism.

Just dumb, dumb, dumb.

Honestly, I really don't see it happening... for so many reasons that are so obvious as to not be worth going into.

But if it did, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Business would follow the commerce, and there would be some 'result', though likely not a great one.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Honestly, I really don't see it happening... for so many reasons that are so obvious as to not be worth going into.

But if it did, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Business would follow the commerce, and there would be some 'result', though likely not a great one.

It would very disappointing for passengers, for sure. After five minutes ashore they'd wonder how to get to Halifax, and why they didn't land there in the first place. I know that would be my reaction.

I really, really don't want to see tens of millions in tax dollars blown on this nowhere idea.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

It would actually be quite terrible for D/T Dartmouth to start trying to shape itself as a cruise destination. Halifax is big enough that the cruisers just get absorbed into the general activity of the area, but Dartmouth would get overwhelmed. Worst case scenario, it would become some sort of kitschy tourist trap, like the Historic Properties writ large.

Some of those media comments about potential cruise development feel like a blast from the past to me. In the 90's and 2000's there was a big focus on government-led tourism initiatives and supporting development. Economically the impact of that is comparatively small (even though people throw around figures in the millions, the city's economy is double-digit billions) and it never turns out as well as organic urban development. There was an unhealthy underlying attitude that if the public sector did the right project it would save the area or turn the economy around or whatever. Ultimately I think a lot of that was counter-productive in that it would have been better for the government to focus on core areas.

These days there's plainly a lot of other more organic development happening, including in Dartmouth.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

It would very disappointing for passengers, for sure. After five minutes ashore they'd wonder how to get to Halifax, and why they didn't land there in the first place. I know that would be my reaction.

I really, really don't want to see tens of millions in tax dollars blown on this nowhere idea.

I agree. It is pie-in-the-sky 1960s thinking/boosterism.

[Dartguard]

There was an unhealthy underlying attitude that if the public sector did the right project it would save the area or turn the economy around or whatever. Ultimately I think a lot of that was counter-productive in that it would have been better for the government to focus on core areas.

These days there's plainly a lot of other more organic development happening, including in Dartmouth.[/QUOTE]

Except we all forget that the present Boom in Halifax really took off after the Irving's won the Combat portion of the National Ship building Project. A multi decade, multi Billion dollar investment by ALL Canadians in the Halifax area.
The local Immigrant community started thinking and spending big on legacy projects and serious Toronto money started coming in. ( Starfish Properties )

The City has gone to another level of investment not seen since the Second World War. A far less happy investment.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Honestly, I really don't see it happening... for so many reasons that are so obvious as to not be worth going into.

But if it did, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Business would follow the commerce, and there would be some 'result', though likely not a great one.

The only outfit that truly profits from cruise ships calling here is the Port Authority itself, which makes big bucks from docking fees, and the support businesses ashore which pick up the trash when the ships are in port, restock them with food and fuel, etc. As someone who was involved in the trade for a while, the biggest gripe from local businesses is that these passengers don't buy anything much when they come ashore, other than the odd t-shirt or souvenir. They don't go to local restos to eat most of the time, since meals are provided aboard ship. In many cases, the same holds true for booze - the Garrison phenomenon is solely because of location and giving them something to do in an area where there isn't much. But most businesses that set up there were bitterly disappointed in the lack of business all those visitors generated.

[JET]

I've met cruise ship passengers in Dartmouth, the more adventurous ones, I guess; they take the ferry over from Haifax (best cheap sight seeing cruise available), do a walking tour of Downtown Dartmouth, maybe take in the view from the Dartmouth Common. Conversely, cruise passengers could do the reverse, take the ferry to Halifax and then back. I do think that a cruise Terminal in Dartmouth is not going to float, but Dartmouth is a niche market for some cruise passengers that land in Halifax.

[IanWatson]

I haven't been by yet to see it myself, but my colleague reports that the former Piercy's site on Robie (huge gravel lot next to Rona) is closed with jersey barriers and all vehicles have been removed from it.

No permits issued yet that I can see. The site is within the ownership umbrella of the Bragg Group. Anyone have any dirt on what's happening? A development there would be absolutely transformative for the North End.

[kph06]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

I haven't been by yet to see it myself, but my colleague reports that the former Piercy's site on Robie (huge gravel lot next to Rona) is closed with jersey barriers and all vehicles have been removed from it.

No permits issued yet that I can see. The site is within the ownership umbrella of the Bragg Group. Anyone have any dirt on what's happening? A development there would be absolutely transformative for the North End.

I drove by tonight and saw this. It was hard to tell the limits of them in the dark. Maybe it’s just to keep people from doing donuts in the winter? It’s hard to imagine something getting under way at that site without notice or news because as you say, it would be transformative for sure.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by kph06

I drove by tonight and saw this. It was hard to tell the limits of them in the dark. Maybe it’s just to keep people from doing donuts in the winter? It’s hard to imagine something getting under way at that site without notice or news because as you say, it would be transformative for sure.

That site WAY back when had a small refinery on it so I imagine there will be some exploratory remediation before anything gets done there.

[Jonovision]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

I haven't been by yet to see it myself, but my colleague reports that the former Piercy's site on Robie (huge gravel lot next to Rona) is closed with jersey barriers and all vehicles have been removed from it.

No permits issued yet that I can see. The site is within the ownership umbrella of the Bragg Group. Anyone have any dirt on what's happening? A development there would be absolutely transformative for the North End.

This would be huge for the area and help to really create a sense of place and a sense of continuity to connect all the development together. I thought it was an area though that was earmarked for a masterplan similar to the malls before any development came forward?

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

This would be huge for the area and help to really create a sense of place and a sense of continuity to connect all the development together. I thought it was an area though that was earmarked for a masterplan similar to the malls before any development came forward?

As, you’re right. I just checked and it’s a Future Growth Node, so will require a planning process. Perhaps Dartgaurd is correct that this is just exploratory work.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Perhaps a land sale is in the works? ...due diligence and all that. I remember seeing the core sample drilling occuring around Colonial Honda when the sale to Steele was happening.

[someone123]

I noticed a couple new (to me at least) projects up on dexel.ca. 1585 Grafton Street and Mitchell (is that for Mitchell Street?).

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I noticed a couple new (to me at least) projects up on dexel.ca. 1585 Grafton Street and Mitchell (is that for Mitchell Street?).

It doesn't necessarily make sense, since odd-numbered addresses are on the other side of the street, but could this be the site of the Symcor building on Grafton. That was 1580 Grafton, and Dexel owns the site.

Otherwise, 1585 would seem to occupy a portion of the Marriott on Grafton. Adjacent to that is the Stubborn Goat, which is 1579. Next to that is an empty lot, and then another old two-storey building. Presumably these could be combined into a small development lot. (I would hate to lose the Stubborn Goat building, however, one of the few Victorian masonry facades west of Barrington downtown. Coincidently, there was a pretty serious kitchen fire there yesterday, though it appears to have been contained without catastrophic building damage.)