Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

What about NHL arenas? Maple Leaf Garden became a Loblaws and Sports Facility for Ryerson (Toronto Met U). The Forum became a weird cinema and entertainment venue. Rexall was abandoned and is about to get demoed. Civic Centre and Aberdeen Pavilion in Ottawa were temporary as they were never meant to be NHL arenas. Any others? I think Vancouver's is still around.

An absolute travesty that we let MLG and The Forum wilt away to nothing. They should have been preserved. They'd make incredible bank playing 'Heritage' games at retrofitted heritage arenas.

Originally Posted by esquire

Isn't this the fate of quite a few Olympic Stadiums, though? Not many of them are in heavy, regular use. Montreal's was probably one of the most frequently used for its first 25+ years until the Expos left.

• 1968: Estadio Olimpico Universitario in Mexico City. Built in 1950 for the 1955 Pan American Games. Hosted the 1968 Olympics. Hosted matches for the 1986 World Cup. Has been the home of UNAM Pumas football since opening.
• 1972: Olympiastadion in Munich. Build for these Olympics. Hosted Bayern Munich from 1972-2005. Hosted matches for the 1974 World Cup, including the Final, and 1988 European Football Championships, including the Final. Hosted the 2002 and 2022 European Athletics Championships. Hosted the Champions League Final in 1979, 1993, and 1997.
• 1976: Olympic Stadium in Montreal. Hosted the Expos from 1977-2004 and the Alouettes at various stretches. Hosts occasional soccer matches. Used as a venue for the 2015 Women's World Cup.
• 1980: Luzhniki in Moscow. Previously the Soviet National Stadium and built in the 50s, renovated for the Olympics. Hosted matches for the 2018 World Cup and the 2008 Champions League Final. Frequently used for Russia NT matches and still one of the largest stadiums in Europe.
• 1984: Memorial Coliseum in Los Angeles. Built in the 20s, home to USC Football. Has hosted more events than anyone could possibly list off, including most recently NASCAR races. Will be used for the 2028 Olympics.
• 1988: Olympic Stadium in Seoul. Hosted the Asian Games in 1986 and the 1988 Olympics. No major sporting events since then but frequently hosts large concerts. A soccer team has played there since 2015, and Korea's NT likes to poke around.
• 1992: Olympic Stadium in Barcelona. Originally built in the 20s. ECD Espanyol played here from 1997-2009 and it has hosted the European Athletics Championships and World Junior Athletics Championships. FC Barcelona will be playing here for 2023-2024 due to renovations at Camp Nou
• 1996: Olympic Stadium in Atlanta. Reconstructed into Turner Field for the Atlanta Braves between 1997-2016. Reconstructed again in 2017 for Georgia State University sports.
• 2000: Olympic Stadium in Sydney. Has hosted rugby since 1999 and was the Rugby World Cup Final stadium in 2003. Hosted the AFC Asian Cup final in 2015 and will be the Final venue for the 2023 Women's World Cup.
• 2004: Olympic Stadium in Athens. Originally built in 1980 to host the European Athletics Championships. Hosted the 1994 Champions League Final and the 1997 World Athletics Championships. Hosted the 2007 Champions League Final and has hosted various Greek football teams since, including the National Team.
• 2008: Olympic Stadium in Beijing. Built for 2008 Olympics and used again for the 2022 Olympics. Hosted the 2015 World Athletics Championships. Used occasionally by Chinese football NTs.
• 2012: Olympic Stadium in London. Built for these Olympics. Has hosted West Ham United since 2016. Hosted matches for the 2015 Rugby World Cup. Hosted the 2017 World Athletics Championships.
• 2016: Maracana in Rio de Janeiro. One of the most famous football stadiums in the world. Estadio Olimpico was built in 2007 for the Pan American Games and hosted athletics and football for the 2016 Olympics. Botafogo host their matches here.
• 2020: Olympic Stadum in Tokyo. The old stadium used for the 1964 Olympics was demolished for this building. The Japanese rugby and football teams occasionally play out of here.
• 2024: Stade de France in Paris. The opening and closing ceremonies won't be held in a stadium but in two different locations: the opening ceremonies on the River Seine and the closing ceremonies at the Jardins du Trocadero.
• 2028: Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum and SoFi Stadium.

The majority are used fairly regularly. I'd say only Seoul has a weaker track record than Montreal. Going back further than I have opens up buildings like Estadio Olimpico in Rome, Olympiastadion in Berlin, and the original Wembley in London...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The Milton Velodrome is probably the most frustrating sports venue i've ever been to. It's a great facility that is truly in the middle of nowhere. It should be in 'downtown' Milton.

On a sidenote, I was recently doing some reading and found that there really aren't all that many 400m indoor speed skating ovals in the world - only 42 to be exact. Eight in Holland, seven in China (including three built in just the past seven years), five in Russia. Canada only has three: Calgary (1987), Fort St. John (2009), and Quebec (2021), and the US only has two: Milwaukee (1993) and Kearns UT (2000). Canada and Russia are the only countries to ever decommission a venue, which Canada did with the Richmond Oval after the Vancouver Olympics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_indoor_speed_skating_rinks

Regarding Richmond, having been in the Oval a few times I got the impression that it could be fairly easily converted back to speed skating if the need ever arose. You can see where the track is supposed to go, it's just covered up. The various other uses in the Oval (hockey, basketball, etc.) happen in the infield area.

(I say "fairly easily" in relative terms, it might still cost a significant amount of money to do it, but it doesn't look like it would require major structural alterations or anything like that.)

I will say that cold weather countries like Canada do have several outdoor long track ovals that can be used for development purposes. The Sargent Park Oval in Winnipeg, for example, was where a few Olympians got their start and ascended the ranks.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

Regarding Richmond, having been in the Oval a few times I got the impression that it could be fairly easily converted back to speed skating if the need ever arose. You can see where the track is supposed to go, it's just covered up. The various other uses in the Oval (hockey, basketball, etc.) happen in the infield area.

(I say "fairly easily" in relative terms, it might still cost a significant amount of money to do it, but it doesn't look like it would require major structural alterations or anything like that.)

IIRC the proposal for the 2030 Vancouver bid included repurposing the Richmond Oval back into a speed skating venue, along with re-using most of the other venues from 2010. I think they wanted to move Curling to the Agrodome and shift some ski events to Kamloops but other than that it was a replica of the 2010 bid.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by JHikka

An absolute travesty that we let MLG and The Forum wilt away to nothing. They should have been preserved. They'd make incredible bank playing 'Heritage' games at retrofitted heritage arenas.

MLG would be a huge White Elephant if was saved just for a few games a a year. Also I heard concert wise it had terrible acoustics. I think what they did was a brilliant reuse of this old building. Considering this is Toronto it's lucky that it didn't turn into a podium for a 75 storey condo. Now the Toronto Metropolitan University has a new facility for it's athletics and the neighborhood has one of the best Grocery Stores in the city.

• Video Link

[savevp]

ML Gardens wilted away? Come now.

The Forum is lost to the world (historic charm was gone before Habs moved out but still.

Gardens is probably the best retrofit of an old arena one could ask for. Still hosting hockey, stunning exterior restoration, and the interior chock full of artifacts. Hard to realistically ask for better.

[Djeffery]

Eugene Melnyk wanted to buy MLG for his St Mike's Majors OHL team, but MLSE wouldn't sell to him because it could also be an event venue competitor for the ACC. Have heard a few so called insiders say on various podcasts and sports radio shows over the years that the main reason MLSE wouldn't sell was because they were afraid Melnyk would try to move the Sens there.

[esquire]

I'll give Toronto credit for preserving the structure of MLG, even if its function has changed. It's nice to still see it there.

[Berklon]

Yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with MLG today. Even though it's part grocery store, part hockey rink - I think it looks great.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by JHikka

An absolute travesty that we let MLG and The Forum wilt away to nothing. They should have been preserved. They'd make incredible bank playing 'Heritage' games at retrofitted heritage arenas.

MLG would be a stadium without a major league tenant needing $100 of millions in upgrades. Hockey is still played on site. BTW, Who is this "we"? MLSE refused to sell unless the non competitive conditions were agreed upon. That's there prerogative as the building owners. In the end, it probably saved many tens of millions in public funds spent on nostalgia than an practical business plan. C'mon with a few heritage games. It shifts the location. It doesn't increase the number of games played in the schedule.

[esquire]

Let's not forget there is still a pretty sweet looking arena with a lot of history in there.

If this place was in Massachusetts, it would probably be considered one of the hallowed halls of college hockey that fans would flock to. But this being Canada with Fredericton and maybe Saskatoon being pretty well the only places in the entire country that take university-level hockey seriously, it probably sits empty and ignored for most games.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by JHikka

IIRC the proposal for the 2030 Vancouver bid included repurposing the Richmond Oval back into a speed skating venue, along with re-using most of the other venues from 2010. I think they wanted to move Curling to the Agrodome and shift some ski events to Kamloops but other than that it was a replica of the 2010 bid.

The ice surface infrastructure is still in place. I remember seeing a proposal to update the ice plant if Van went after the Olympics. The new plant would be more efficient.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by esquire

Let's not forget there is still a pretty sweet looking arena with a lot of history in there.

If this place was in Massachusetts, it would probably be considered one of the hallowed halls of college hockey that fans would flock to. But this being Canada with Fredericton and maybe Saskatoon being pretty well the only places in the entire country that take university-level hockey seriously, it probably sits empty and ignored for most games.

They also play basketball in there.
Source: https://live.staticflickr.com

[esquire]

^ Damn. It looks great with that extra temporary seating set up.

Next time I'm in town I am going to make an effort to get in there for a game if there is one going on.

[craner]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

MLG would be a huge White Elephant if was saved just for a few games a a year. Also I heard concert wise it had terrible acoustics. I think what they did was a brilliant reuse of this old building. Considering this is Toronto it's lucky that it didn't turn into a podium for a 75 storey condo. Now the Toronto Metropolitan University has a new facility for it's athletics and the neighborhood has one of the best Grocery Stores in the city.

• Video Link

Really cool video - thanks for posting that.
The rink at MLG looks great.

[J.OT13]

They did something impressive with MLG. Keeping it as is would have been interesting however, it would be more of a relic, a museum piece than anything. Instead, it's been giving new life.


https://www.blogto.com/city/2011/07/the_new_maple_leaf_gardens_takes_shape/

That said, feels like Toronto does need another 15k-20k venue.

As for Le Forum, it was a pretty crappy looking building after the 1968 renos. Almost kind of worse today. It's a strange one.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

They did something impressive with MLG. Keeping it as is would have been interesting however, it would be more of a relic, a museum piece than anything. Instead, it's been giving new life.


https://www.blogto.com/city/2011/07/the_new_maple_leaf_gardens_takes_shape/

That said, feels like Toronto does need another 15k-20k venue.

As for Le Forum, it was a pretty crappy looking building after the 1968 renos. Almost kind of worse today. It's a strange one.

Agreed, MLG still at least has 100% of its historic character on the outside. The inside has changed but it's still a good use that generates traffic and keeps the streets lively.

The Forum doesn't have any of that. Whatever midcentury dignity it had after the 1968 renovations was lost when it got nineties-fied once the Habs moved out. I mean, this is just awful:



As for Toronto needing another 15-20K seat venue, I guess Skydome offsets the need for that to some extent as it can house large scale concerts and entertainment events. I'm not sure the economics of it support another such building in the GTA without a significant sports tenant. I've heard it said that Copps Coliseum effectively provides Toronto with another large scale arena and that makes sense to some degree. All of those big secondary arenas in large US cities were always built around sports even if that wasn't necessarily their main function in later years, e.g. Kia Forum, Nassau Coliseum.

[Acajack]

The old Montreal Forum is as good as demolished as far as I and Hab fans are concerned.

There is a proposal BTW to put towers on top of it. This is an NYC developer I think.

https://www.aacrealty.com/portfolio/forum-towers

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The old Montreal Forum is as good as demolished as far as I and Hab fans are concerned.

There is a proposal BTW to put towers on top of it. This is an NYC developer I think.

https://www.aacrealty.com/portfolio/forum-towers

Oh wow. I don't know what's worse, the "Forum" podium or the towers. At least attempt to restore the Forum to its pre-1968 glory.

[Berklon]

The Forum is just atrocious - even compared to today's standards of big box stores and movie theatres.

I love that MLG kept it's historic look while allowing to freshen it up.

Spoilered due to size (is there a way to resize images on this board?) (image from wiki)

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The old Montreal Forum is as good as demolished as far as I and Hab fans are concerned.

There is a proposal BTW to put towers on top of it. This is an NYC developer I think.

https://www.aacrealty.com/portfolio/forum-towers

That's horrible! Does any of the original structure still exist under it's 90's Bix Box facade? If not I see no reason to keep the structure at all if they plan to redevelop the site.

source:https://c1.staticflickr.com