Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

That's literally the main point of a corporation. To give the company a legal life of it's own. It becomes a legal person. Imagine the increased profit bidders would demand if they were personally liable for any problems.

For profit sector is needed. Trainsets for sure. Do we don't need a PPP to handle the maintenance but there is some logic in linking the construction and maintenance projects. Agree it clearly hasn't worked out and we need a new paradigm.

The problem we have is that their bidding too low. Bid what it would actually cost. It is rare that a public works project is under budget.

Originally Posted by acottawa

Then the city has to run its own in house construction company, which would be extremely expensive and as others have pointed out, even more ineffective.

All governments used to have a public works department that would do everything. Then we got to the point where pensions were costing too much, so we started asking for corporations to do it. Now we have questionable workmanship and higher costs.What have we saved?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The problem we have is that their bidding too low. Bid what it would actually cost. It is rare that a public works project is under budget.



All governments used to have a public works department that would do everything. Then we got to the point where pensions were costing too much, so we started asking for corporations to do it. Now we have questionable workmanship and higher costs.What have we saved?

Everything? Really now? When?

Cost of Transpo garage expansion rises $1.5 M: [FINAL Edition]
The Citizen; Ottawa, Ont. [Ottawa, Ont]. 03 Apr 1986: B5.

The cost of a four-year expansion of OC Transpo's bus garage on St. Laurent Boulevard has risen to $10.7 million from $9.15 million in the past six months.

Transit commission chairman Andy Haydon defended the increase Wednesday, saying it's a reflection of the booming local construction market where contractors and suppliers have no incentive to offer discounts to get business.

Transpo's 1986 budget, prepared last fall, estimated the cost of the work at $9.15 million, which included an inflation factor of five per cent for each of the four years.

The expansion will increase the space of the garage at Transpo's headquarters by 25 per cent and requires relocation of the employee parking lot.

As part of the detailed design process, Transpo commissioners learned Wednesday, the consultant prepared a more comprehensive construction cost estimate showing a "significant" cost increase, said Transpo general manager John Bonsall, of more than $1.5 million.

Most of the increase, $1.1 million, is due to the consultant's low estimates of construction costs last fall. Of that amount, $704,000 is for 1986 construction.

In other business, Transpo commissioners decided to increase the supply of video bus schedule displays at transitway stations.

Commissioners approved a five-year agreement with Impact Videotex Marketing Inc. The company will install between 23 and 43 schedule information screens at the stations over the next five years.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Everything? Really now? When?

It has been going on for a while. Most projects these days are not on budget. Transit and transportation projects quickly come to mind.

[rocketphish]

City councillor wants to know root causes behind leaks, other damage at LRT stations
Water infiltration, cracking paint and rust apparent at both Parliament and Rideau stations

Laura Glowacki · CBC News
Posted: Jan 12, 2023 1:23 PM EST | Last Updated: 16 minutes ago



An Ottawa city councillor and member of the transit commission is raising questions about the state of two of Ottawa's downtown light-rail transit stations.

Alta Vista Coun. Marty Carr toured Rideau and Parliament stations with CBC Thursday to look for maintenance issues.

At both stations, white paint could be seen peeling and cracking, especially along stairs and escalators.

At Parliament, multiple tiles of its decorative ceiling were rusty and showed other signs of water damage. The corner beside an elevator glistened with moisture and the wall stained with white streaks and rust.

At Rideau station, three of the windows on exit doors to Rideau Street were smashed. One was simply repaired with tape.



"The little things are important in terms of maintenance and how things look on the LRT — this was a really large investment for the city," said Carr.

While Rideau station didn't seem to have an odour, at Parliament station the smell of sewage was unmissable. The issue that has plagued the station since it opened in 2019.

In an email to CBC, Rideau Transit Maintenance (RTM) blamed "stagnant groundwater" for the smell at Parliament and said it is an "intermittent" problem associated with the flow of groundwater and the outside temperature.

Along the wall of the eastbound platform at Parliament, standing water was being mopped up by a maintenance worker Thursday. On Wednesday, CBC noted water pooling in the area as well.

"I'm wondering where [the water is] coming from, where that leak originated. That will be important to find out," said Carr.



A worker on site said the water was rising from below the tiles. Carr also noted a potential slip hazard on the platform, caused by the leak.

"It's definitely worth investigating," she said.

RTM has a 30-year contract to maintain Ottawa's light rail transit system, including stations.

In its email to CBC Thursday, a spokesperson said the pooling water at Parliament station is the result of a blocked drain. Water infiltration is resulting in pooling, said the email. RTM didn't provide a reason for the blocked drain or the source of the water.

"We are currently in the process of addressing the issue," the email said.

As far as cracking paint, Rideau Transit said water infiltration is common in underground systems and isn't unique to Ottawa. RTM has a plan to address the uneven paint surfaces, it said.

Crews are replacing broken windows at Rideau station on Friday, RTM said, adding the windows were broken last week by vandals.

Carr said she plans to make a list of all the issues she encounters riding the LRT and request more information from OC Transpo staff.

While problems with trains and the ice-prone overhead power system have been in the spotlight, Carr said it's important to keep tabs on other aspects of the system, including the stations.

"After three and a half years, we have that rust, that leaking, that peeling paint. What's causing those issues? I'm really interested in finding that out," she said.

Ottawa's transit commission is scheduled to have its next meeting on Feb. 9.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/councillor-marty-carr-downtown-lrt-crack-causes-1.6711785

[Uhuniau]

I love how the local media takes month and even years to clue into problems that we start complaining whining discussing in a civil manner as befits our society so much earlier.

[Richard Eade]

Hey, I'm just glad to see that the media is finally catching up - thanks in no small part to Marty Carr. Good on her for asking questions that many of us have. I'm hopeful that she can find real answers - but fearful that she won't, and will give up. Banging your head into a brick wall can get really old, really fast.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The problem we have is that their bidding too low. Bid what it would actually cost. It is rare that a public works project is under budget.



All governments used to have a public works department that would do everything. Then we got to the point where pensions were costing too much, so we started asking for corporations to do it. Now we have questionable workmanship and higher costs.What have we saved?

Were government public works departments any better? Were they able to build complex projects like mass transit systems? The shift away from state delivery of services in the 70s and 80s was not for no reason.

[Richard Eade]

You are right, acottawa, it was not for no reason.

Back in the day, governments would be responsible for building lots of new infrastructure. Then came a period of austerity, when few things were built. Engineers and designers don’t like to sit around for years without anything to do. Governments don’t like having to pay engineers and designers to sit around, doing nothing.

When cities, for example, are booming, each one can afford to have professional staff to do the design of new infrastructure. There is always new stuff in the pipeline, so staff is always busy. And, it is worthwhile for cities to have staff that has the expertise to do the required work.

When cities are building few new things, it is hard to justify keeping that dedicated staff. And, the employees get bored. Along comes a consulting firm that can provide the professionals needed for the few occasions that they are needed. Because, the expertise is shopped around to many cities, the consulting engineers and designers are kept busy and happy. Since the cities only have to pay for a consultant when one is needed, they no longer have the overhead of permanent employees. Using consultants can save governments money, even if they pay a premium for the few times that they need a professional.

So, that is likely closer to the reason that governments reduced their professional staff and turned to using consultants.

However, as more and more things are getting built by governments, they should probably be transitioning back to having professionals on-staff. If a municipality is paying the premium for a consultant for years at a stretch, then it would be less costly to simply hire a professional for the role. Alas, governments have become used to using consultants and have not taken the time to review why they have been used.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Were government public works departments any better? Were they able to build complex projects like mass transit systems? The shift away from state delivery of services in the 70s and 80s was not for no reason.

1861
1954
1966
1978
1981
1983
1985
2001
2019
2019

Do you notice the 30 year gap? Tell me that is a good thing.
Those numbers represent the opening of all major urban RT in Canada, not including Commuter rail.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

1861
1954
1966
1978
1981
1983
1985
2001
2019
2019

Do you notice the 30 year gap? Tell me that is a good thing.
Those numbers represent the opening of all major urban RT in Canada, not including Commuter rail.

Where is there a 30 year gap? The longest gap on your list is 18 years, and that is only because you ignored the Canada Line in 2009, the Sheppard Line in 2002, the millennium line in 2002 and extensions of Toronto and Montreal subway lines and sky train that occurred during that gap.

I am not sure what your point is though.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Where is there a 30 year gap? The longest gap on your list is 18 years, and that is only because you ignored the Canada Line in 2009, the Sheppard Line in 2002, the millennium line in 2002 and extensions of Toronto and Montreal subway lines and sky train that occurred during that gap.

I am not sure what your point is though.

Each of those are new places, not new lines, with one exception - the original O-Train in 2001. Ottawa had an RT before it, but since we are talking about Ottawa, I threw that carrot in as well as the conversion. Take those out and the cities have not done anything outside their normal stuff for around 30 years. Take the TTC Subways. They have been expanded multiple times, but very few cities built a new subway. So, since gutting the public service public works departments, we have seen nothing get started except for what most already knew about.

Also, look at the time from 1954-1985. That is 40 years. In 40 years, we saw 6 new transit systems. In the next 40 years, we see 3. By 2025, the 40 year mark, the only new service in a city that did not have anything will be the Hurontario LRT in Mississauga. So, 6 in 40 years, vs 4 in the next 40 years is telling.

An interesting thing is that in the "next 40 years" (the next decade or so) We will see 3 more built - Gatineau LRT, Hamilton BLAST and Quebec City LRT.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Each of those are new places, not new lines, with one exception - the original O-Train in 2001. Ottawa had an RT before it, but since we are talking about Ottawa, I threw that carrot in as well as the conversion. Take those out and the cities have not done anything outside their normal stuff for around 30 years. Take the TTC Subways. They have been expanded multiple times, but very few cities built a new subway. So, since gutting the public service public works departments, we have seen nothing get started except for what most already knew about.

Also, look at the time from 1954-1985. That is 40 years. In 40 years, we saw 6 new transit systems. In the next 40 years, we see 3. By 2025, the 40 year mark, the only new service in a city that did not have anything will be the Hurontario LRT in Mississauga. So, 6 in 40 years, vs 4 in the next 40 years is telling.

An interesting thing is that in the "next 40 years" (the next decade or so) We will see 3 more built - Gatineau LRT, Hamilton BLAST and Quebec City LRT.

I highly doubt there is any correlation between cities building transit systems for the first time and the existence of in house public works departments. The more likely variables are population growth and the financial situation governments are in.

The heyday of new public transit construction when cities and towns were building streetcar and commuter rail systems was before WW1, when it was all privately owned.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I highly doubt there is any correlation between cities building transit systems for the first time and the existence of in house public works departments. The more likely variables are population growth and the financial situation governments are in.

Was Ottawa's population smaller than Calgary or Edmonton in the 1970s?
The 80s, the politicians were good at convincing people that cutting government services was a good thing.

Originally Posted by acottawa

The heyday of new public transit construction when cities and towns were building streetcar and commuter rail systems was before WW1, when it was all privately owned.

This is very true. There was about 100 systems in various places of varying sizes of municipalities. What we are seeing now is that people want the nice things now.

[zzptichka]

Video riding the Hurdman curve: https://photos.app.goo.gl/EEbzFsfhKE239eSD8

Not too bad really. No wheel rubbing noise and no vibration. Speed is fine. Used to be much worse.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Was Ottawa's population smaller than Calgary or Edmonton in the 1970s?
The 80s, the politicians were good at convincing people that cutting government services was a good thing.

.

Ottawa in the 80s went all in on bus rapid transit, and spent a lot of money on it..

[rocketphish]

Brake fault blamed for three-hour LRT disruption Monday morning
More than an hour after the original incident, OC Transpo tweeted that the situation was "ongoing".

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Jan 23, 2023 • 1 minute read

A brake fault was the cause of a stopped train that disrupted LRT service on the Confederation Line for more than three hours Monday.

The fault occurred at about 9:05 a.m., stopping a train on the tracks just a few metres outside Tunney’s Pasture station. The breakdown stopped and delayed trains along the line, sending many passengers scrambling to find buses to continue their journey.

Train service continued throughout, but travellers had to change trains at Lyon, and service at Lyon, Pimisi and Bayview stations was limited to the eastbound track, the city said in a media release. OC Transpo workers were on site to help direct travellers, the city said.

Full service resumed at about 12:20 p.m.

“OC Transpo worked collaboratively with Rideau Transit Group to resolve this issue as quickly as possible, and this incident will be reviewed with lessons learned applied,” Troy Charter, director of transit service delivery and rail operations, said in the media release.

One frustrated passenger told this newspaper he spent 30 minutes on a stopped train before it slowly made its way to Lees station. Passengers were then told to board a train on the other track, which they did, before another announcement told them to return to the original train.

It’s the first major glitch in Confederation service since trains were disrupted for six days after an ice storm on Jan. 4 trapped trains on the track near Lees station.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/stopped-lrt-train-disrupts-monday-commute

[lrt's friend]

I was riding the train during the disruption. They told us that the last stop was at Lyon Station coming from the east. It appeared from what they said, that you had to transfer to a bus to go further, but who knows. Service frequency was also reduced on the unaffected part of the line.

We need at least one parallel all-day bus route, like an extension of Route 88 going to Blair via Coventry or Tremblay and Ogilvie. It is crazy how every disruption adds 2 or 3 transfers if your destination is not downtown. It is also crazy how they truncated every cross-town bus route when the Confed Line opened.

[OttawaSteve]

I was also using the LRT during this morning's disruption. I'm not a regular LRT rider so this was my first experience with one of these.

A couple of observations:

- At Blair Station at around 9:30am, the electronic displays on the platform showed all next trains as "Held." Despite this, a very full train did depart after a longer-than-usual wait at Blair.

- Aside from the "Held" status on the electronic displays there was no communication whatsoever to riders at Blair about any delays to service (PA announcements, on-site staff, etc.).

- At Cyrville station westbound our train stopped and waited with the doors open. After a couple of minutes, a PA announcement said that westbound trains were boarding from the eastbound platform. Passengers warily disembarked and stood on the centre platform. No trains arrived on the eastbound platform. After a couple more minutes, the doors on our original westbound train suddenly began to close. There then commenced a rush to re-board the original westbound train, which, with its passengers back on board, then resumed its westbound journey. We made the slow, crowded journey downtown without further incident.

If I had to draw a conclusion from this admittedly limited encounter with LRT service woes, it's that problems with service are being made worse for riders by lousy communications. It's one thing to have a broken LRT. It's another thing to frustrate your riders further still by providing no helpful communication and/or by providing inaccurate information. In an uncontrollable circumstance, communication is one thing that you do have the power to control. Frequent, clear, accurate communication about the nature of the problem should be a reasonable expectation for LRT riders.

[lrt's friend]

When I got on at Hurdman, there was no communication. There was an announcement on the train later. The only reason I realized that there was a problem, was the longer than normal gap on the next train sign and then I noticed that the destination was marked 'Lyon'. I then asked another passenger and she had heard of a problem this morning. Overall, it didn't significantly affect my trip since my destination was downtown.

[acottawa]

This is why an electronic sign system is needed.

“Delay due to Mechanical Issue, changing trains at Lyon required. Expect a 20 minute delay”

The mystery box approach to transit management is not working.