Winnipeg Construction X

[Sheepish]

In part comes back to the SHED discussion. When I go to a game, I come for the game, and leave after to head home. There is no sense of a district to hang out in after the game before heading home (or to enjoy pregame). And honestly, because it is mostly blocked at Graham, True North Square does not really fulfill its mandate. If I was TN, I would have my eye on that block along Donald (south of St. Mary) or on Ellice land across from the Police Station to help create a fan friendly district.

[thebasketballgeek]

When entertainment is so abundant and cheap these days why spend money on a subpar game experience?

The Jets have one of the dullest game day experiences I have witnessed and it didn’t dawn on me until I watched a Warriors game a few weeks ago. The music is some shitty swagrock or vintage music, little to no entertainment during intermission, fan engagement is lacklustre, and visuals are outdated. The jets aren’t very interesting for young people

And none of that matters because guess what the game I went to in the Bay Area for 49ers and Warriors weren’t sold out. Empty seats everywhere and these are top of the class franchises in their respective sports in a large ass market.

This is not a Winnipeg Jets problem. This is a North American sports problem. And frankly none of the teams are sweating it because the ad revenue they are getting, paired with massive TV contracts and insane increase in gambling means owners aren’t even sweating low attendance figures anymore.

Anyway, I think there might be another thread to talk about the Jets. Oh well when have titles of thread posts ever mattered on SSP

[Biff]

Hey, as an example - I recently went to LA for a weekend of sporting events. When booking the events we attended, I noticed that Crypto.com centre and the LA Kings market their NHL tickets to each visiting team as packages for tourist visits. (we didn't attend a hockey game). It is an example of how even in the big markets with unlimited money, they still need to be creative with their marketing.

I believe it had to do with cities that had direct flight to the LA area and had a corresponding NHL team. The Jets should look at this for their marketing.

[wags_in_the_peg]

"visuals are outdated"? the on-ice show pre-game / intermission is unreal, the ice surface is one huge screen

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

"visuals are outdated"? the on-ice show pre-game / intermission is unreal, the ice surface is one huge screen

Yea that was definitely not correct of me to say I was just finding reasons to shit on the game day experience.

I really do enjoy their pregame, and of course I still enjoy watching the games in person 10/10 times over TV (when price is not a factor). But still the rest of my point stands.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Sheepish

In part comes back to the SHED discussion. When I go to a game, I come for the game, and leave after to head home. There is no sense of a district to hang out in after the game before heading home (or to enjoy pregame). And honestly, because it is mostly blocked at Graham, True North Square does not really fulfill its mandate. If I was TN, I would have my eye on that block along Donald (south of St. Mary) or on Ellice land across from the Police Station to help create a fan friendly district.

I guess we see it differently. Every game we go to, we go about an hour and a half early. We love the vibe in the Hargrave St Market. We go into the arena early to watch the warm-up's etc. I have been to a ton of various pro sport around North America and I don't see a lot of difference in game day experience. All venues have packed concessions etc.

[GreyGarden]

Like I said, I really don’t understand the game experience thing. I’ve been to games in other markets, and sure, for the most part the concourses are bigger but once I’m in my seat, every game has been pretty much the same, maybe a bit more leg and shoulder room, but nothing significant. I never leave and feel like my money went further. To me the big difference is actually what kicked off this discussion - the surrounding area. In the other markets I’ve been to, before and after the game I’m in a bustling vibrant urban environment. But like Biff mentioned, this is improving. I also frequent HSM before games now. The residential uptick in the area has been painfully slow, but it is happening.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by esquire

If the TNS courtyard existed in St. James, it would look exactly the same on TV as it does downtown.

You don't need a huge number of people and street closures, etc. to achieve the desired effect of "look, people are gathering to watch this outside". The Maple Leaf Square viewing parties in Toronto are not massive.

TNS didnt exist when the donald thing was on TV. I guess was my point

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by theruler462

^^It is an issue for the 30 teams ahead of us in attendance though. This is not a Winnipeg centric phenomenon. Declining attendance is widespread across the league. Even blue chip markets like Chicago have plenty of empty seats. Did you notice the number of empty seats in Montreal last week when the Jets played there? Isn't Montreal the mecca of hockey? (Toronto fans would argue that)

According to the Athletic, average attendance in Winnipeg was 13,979 in early December. That's 93.2% of capacity. It's also a ratio of 59.7 based on metro population/attendance. Other markets looks like:

-Arizona: 4,600 avg att. 92%. Ratio of 1,043.5
-Chicago: 15,833 avg att. 77.2%. Ratio of 606.3
-Toronto: 18,693 avg att. 99.3%. Ratio of 331.7
-Montreal: 21,011 avg att. 98.8%. Ratio of 200.0
-San Jose: 14,006 avg att. 79.8%. Ratio of 142.8 (higher if you include the entire Bay area)
-Edmonton: 17,357 avg att. 93.1%. Ratio of 80.7

You could argue that Winnipeg is a stronger market than any of the above. You could argue that it's the strongest market in the league! A much larger proportion of our population takes in Jets games than anywhere else in the League. We are the smallest market. That has repercussions on the total revenue a place like Winnipeg can bring in. But to argue that Winnipeggers are turning away from the Jets in record numbers, or that our true colours are finally coming out and we'll lose our team in 5 years is not defensible. Why aren't the rich bankers filling the seats to 100% in Toronto? Where are the tech workers in San Jose?

Several years ago, half the arenas, including Winnipeg, were reporting 100% attendance numbers. Now, not so much. Only 4 arenas have 100% attendance at this point (Vegas, Seattle, Washington, Nashville). Any decline in attendance has nothing to do with Winnipeg specifically but is explained by developments on a macro scale (ticket prices, COVID, comfort of home, fatigue, etc.).

Percent capacity is a meaningless statistic.

The owners don't get bonus points for percentage of the population that goes to games....by that logic, would a sold out 5,000 seat arena in Regina be a viable NHL franchise?

The fact is, Winnipeg does not have the revenue streams that larger cities do...television, merchandise, tickets, concessions....by almost every metric....they also bring in Canadian dollars.

Winnipeg is the smallest market in North American major league sports and it has the smallest arena in the NHL. You are right that attendance is down in other places as well, but that hits extra hard when you are already the most economically disadvantaged franchise in the league.

Jets fans are showing their true colours....they either can't afford it, or they don't prioritize it enough to pay for it.

One of the best teams in the NHL has one of the lowest attendances....that is not something to brush off....it should worry people....the malaise has set in...everyone has an excuse....the food isnt good enough, too many tuesday games, the game day experience is bad.....it all adds up to lower revenues for an already low revenue team.

[bomberjet]

I've said this before, probably in the Jets thread. The older crowd I know gave up season tickets because they are getting old lol. Like the original Jets 2.0 season ticket buyers. After 10 years, they're in their 60's and watch on TV mostly.

Me being middle aged I guess. I continue to enjoy attending Jets games, going for dinner, etc. I go to about 10 games per year and sell the rest of my seasons online. I have zero trouble selling my seats for at least cost. I went to only one game this year, Carolina on a Monday because it didn't sell. We have 3 seats so that helps.

I keep my season for the playoffs tickets. They were 1/3 of the price back in 2018.

There's also the TNSE are nazi's crowd for having vax requirements.. The fringe people who stopped going. Everything together makes for the average ~1000 people less per game. Ticket prices in Winnipeg are higher than elsewhere, IIRC, to make up for the lower arena capacity.

This is my in insolation.

[esquire]

The good news is that the lower bowl seats at Jets games are generally full. The fact that the less expensive upper bowl seats are not selling quite as well is probably not a huge concern. Other than a few cities like Toronto, New York, Vegas, etc., I think selling those seats takes some effort just about everywhere.

thebasketballgeek nailed it, between increased ad, TV, gambling and other revenues, the money is coming in for NHL teams. This isn't 1988 where the nosebleed seats were a major make or break part of the overall team revenues.

[rivercity]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Percent capacity is a meaningless statistic.

Jets fans are showing their true colours....they either can't afford it, or they don't prioritize it enough to pay for it.

Yeah totally.. poor people cant be jets fans

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

The good news is that the lower bowl seats at Jets games are generally full. The fact that the less expensive upper bowl seats are not selling quite as well
.

that is true and is curious....kind of flies in the face of the 'its too expensive argument' doesnt it.

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by rivercity

Yeah totally.. poor people cant be jets fans

That is silly. There are plenty of Leafs fans that can’t afford to go to games. The difference is that they have way more people making enough money to afford NHL tickets.

[bomberjet]

Upper deck corners, where I sit, are the empty seats.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I've said this before, probably in the Jets thread. The older crowd I know gave up season tickets because they are getting old lol. Like the original Jets 2.0 season ticket buyers. After 10 years, they're in their 60's and watch on TV mostly.

Me being middle aged I guess. I continue to enjoy attending Jets games, going for dinner, etc. I go to about 10 games per year and sell the rest of my seasons online. I have zero trouble selling my seats for at least cost. I went to only one game this year, Carolina on a Monday because it didn't sell. We have 3 seats so that helps.

I keep my season for the playoffs tickets. They were 1/3 of the price back in 2018.

There's also the TNSE are nazi's crowd for having vax requirements.. The fringe people who stopped going. Everything together makes for the average ~1000 people less per game. Ticket prices in Winnipeg are higher than elsewhere, IIRC, to make up for the lower arena capacity.

This is my in insolation.

I would say 90% of my friends were in a ticket group for the first ten years....i would say now maybe 20% are....almost everyone I know has bailed on season tickets and my friends are generally middle-aged men making a decent salary and like hockey.....the ones who should be buying tickets.

[GreyGarden]

So Vike, regarding your anecdotal experience, what do you think is behind their decision? I know similar people. Do you think it is a Winnipeg cultural thing - a culture of frugality and staying in, versus going out and being in the city?

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by rivercity

Yeah totally.. poor people cant be jets fans

we are talking about the viability of the market....if our true colours are that we collectively can't afford to attend games, that's a problem....that's how the bills are paid.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by GreyGarden

So Vike, regarding your anecdotal experience, what do you think is behind their decision? I know similar people. Do you think it is a Winnipeg cultural thing - a culture of frugality and staying in, versus going out and being in the city?

It's a great question....every single one of them has a different excuse....game day experience, whatever that means, true north doesn't care about them, the food, the sight lines, the seats, the cost of tickets, the cost of beer...it's a never ending list....I personally think COVID has made people sedentary and they are just looking for excuses to convince themselves they should stay home.

I look at my beer league hockey that used to have 12 divisions, and now it has six....my summer slow pitch league had 16 teams and now it has 8....i honestly think working from home and the general routine of not going out has created a sedentary society....and in the smallest city in the NHL that has significant repercussions.

I truly believe life has become a competition to see who can never leave their house the most.....we skip food instead of going to restaurants, we watch Netflix instead of going to movies.

[rivercity]

Originally Posted by trueviking

It's a great question....every single one of them has a different excuse....game day experience, whatever that means, true north doesn't care about them, the food, the sight lines, the seats, the cost of tickets, the cost of beer...it's a never ending list....I personally think COVID has made people sedentary and they are just looking for excuses to convince themselves they should stay home.

I look at my beer league hockey that used to have 12 divisions, and now it has six....my summer slow pitch league had 16 teams and now it has 8....i honestly think working from home and the general routine of not going out has created a sedentary society....and in the smallest city in the NHL that has significant repercussions.

I truly believe life has become a competition to see who can never leave their house the most.....we skip food instead of going to restaurants, we watch Netflix instead of going to movies.

Don't disagree with you with this ^ at all.