Development Rumours

[Mr. Hunt]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I attended a business (as HRP press releases would say) at the Dartmouth Shopping Center today. In chatting with a staff member I learned that they were unable to renew their lease and need to relocate early in 2023. The reason as they understood it was that with the possible exception of Shoppers and No Frills, the rest of the facility is scheduled for demolition and redevelopment as residential units of some sort (they were not sure exactly what). This is the first I have heard of this.

From what I hear the property has been acquired by a company called Green Road Holdings Ltd., which shares an office address with Cresco.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hunt

From what I hear the property has been acquired by a company called Green Road Holdings Ltd., which shares an office address with Cresco.

Company likely set up just for this project. Green Rd is the dead-end street that runs behind the DSC adjacent to the public housing.

[Wannabe Economist]

From RJSC it appears it will be a partnership between Cresco and J2K

[Dmajackson]

I was reading an report on rezoning in Dutch Village to allow for a couple of proposed projects and there was an interesting line;

" Through the engagement process, the property owners submitted a conceptual proposal for a 15-storey and townhouse development at 2 and 4 Melrose Avenue after the planning process was initiated."

This is the lot bound by Melrose, Westerwald and School that has a low-rise apartment and Seasons Inn motel immediately adjacent Highway 102.

Case 22816 & 23245 Proposed Rezoning Report

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Company likely set up just for this project. Green Rd is the dead-end street that runs behind the DSC adjacent to the public housing.

The eastern portion of Green Road, Parcel GR1, is part of Dartmouth Common and cannot be developed. Green Road ends at the eastern end of the rear access to McD.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I thought I followed that page but I haven't noticed anything on this.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/HalifaxReTalesChat/posts/5368587753255795/

[gorsk1]

Smaller scale development going up in the North End on Kencrest Ave.



https://www.instagram.com/p/CjlltmcJZ2d/

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Anyone know anything about what is happening on the south east corner of North and Agricola? I noticed recently that the Mid-East food shop is closed.

20221202_140132_HDR by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr

[bluenoser]

Some visioning happening for the Dartmouth Waterfront:

Cruise ships in Dartmouth? Redevelopment would add new berth
Alderney Landing expansion and redeveloping the waterfront promise big changes

A vision of a redesigned Dartmouth waterfront would come with a cruise ship berth, an expanded Alderney Landing with an outdoor stage to accommodate 15,000 people and trails along the waterfront.




https://www.saltwire.com/halifax/news/lo...velopment-would-add-new-berth-100816094/

I don't know why the cruise ships can't just share the ferry terminal . But anyway I'm more interested in the potential expansion of Alderney Landing and improved integration with King's Wharf and Dartmouth Cove as there's tons of potential here.

[Colin May]

CN owns a large water lot between the disused pier and the parking lot. Water depth is a problem. CN also owns the wharf. The railway lines are a problem. More than 30 years ago I was a member of a small group, including consultants, who produced a report of the potential development of the area - available at the library. This link takes you to a nautical chart : http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com...s-navigation.html#15.36/44.6644/-63.5769
The depth numbers are in feet not meters.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Colin May

CN owns a large water lot between the disused pier and the parking lot. Water depth is a problem. CN also owns the wharf. The railway lines are a problem. More than 30 years ago I was a member of a small group, including consultants, who produced a report of the potential development of the area - available at the library. This link takes you to a nautical chart : http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts.com...s-navigation.html#15.36/44.6644/-63.5769
The depth numbers are in feet not meters.

The railroad definitely would be the major obstacle. Water depth isn't much of a problem at all. The very largest cruise ships draw only on the order of 30 feet of water, so only very minor dredging in a few areas would be necessary. Presumably the existing pier would be replaced or at least modified, perhaps with a new wharf at the end to facilitate ships tying up parallel to shore. If so, almost no dredging would be necessary.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Saul Goode

The railroad definitely would be the major obstacle. Water depth isn't much of a problem at all. The very largest cruise ships draw only on the order of 30 feet of water, so only very minor dredging in a few areas would be necessary. Presumably the existing pier would be replaced or at least modified, perhaps with a new wharf at the end to facilitate ships tying up parallel to shore. If so, almost no dredging would be necessary.

Dredging is an environmental nightmare, easier and cheaper to use rock fill from excavation for condo towers , rather than the now dead idea of infilling Dartmouth Cove. I am not sure what size ships they envisage, probably want a longer and wider pier with utilities and parking for tour bus companies and supplies. Infill and extend to the 30 ft mark. Existing pier is just 600 feet.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Dredging is an environmental nightmare, easier and cheaper to use rock fill from excavation for condo towers , rather than the now dead idea of infilling Dartmouth Cove. I am not sure what size ships they envisage, probably want a longer and wider pier with utilities and parking for tour bus companies and supplies. Infill and extend to the 30 ft mark. Existing pier is just 600 feet.

For once i find myself in total agreement with you, Colin.

[Keith P.]

Just imagine paying thousands of dollars for a cruise up the east coast of North America... and your theme park of the seas gets docked in DT Dartmouth, close to the homeless shantytown. I'm sure you'll tell all your friends.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Just imagine paying thousands of dollars for a cruise up the east coast of North America... and your theme park of the seas gets docked in DT Dartmouth, close to the homeless shantytown. I'm sure you'll tell all your friends.

Dartmouth is great and all but I feel like a lot of those comments are out of touch or likely from politicians or officials in a cheerleader type of role.

Not sure why downtown Halifax would be considered at capacity if there is a willingness to construct new cruise ship berths. What about expanding Purdy's or building a new wharf around there? I could see a certain cruise ship demographic heading right for the casino.

Halifax isn't a very large city and there is already so much talk of how things are too busy or over capacity and need to be spread out. How do they manage in NYC?

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by someone123

Dartmouth is great and all but I feel like a lot of those comments are out of touch or likely from politicians or officials in a cheerleader type of role.

Not sure why downtown Halifax would be considered at capacity if there is a willingness to construct new cruise ship berths. What about expanding Purdy's or building a new wharf around there? I could see a certain cruise ship demographic heading right for the casino.

I'm not certain but I'm guessing there are issues re: interference with other harbour traffic preventing a cruise terminal further north on the Halifax side. Having cruise ships dock at Purdy's means they would get in the way of the ferries and to some extent ships entering/leaving the Dockyard. Docking at Alderney would be a bit easier/less disruptive based on the shipping lanes and flow of harbour traffic, and the amount of space needed for ships to maneuver safely.

Alderney Landing might seem like an unglamourous place for tourists to unload but it has nice views, a good cross-section of "local" stuff, public washrooms and amenities, and often has markets/events going on during tourist season. In practice it's way nicer and more complete than the current Seaport terminals where passengers disembark at the base of the grain elevator and/or the abandoned Cunard Centre and then walk across several hundred metres of unsheltered asphalt (often in intense heat, or rain) to the buses or boardwalk. And it's way better than having cruise ships moor in the middle of the harbour because there's no dockspace left (which happens on occasion).

Re: the casino - it would make sense to move it to the Seaport area rather than the other way around. Currently it would be a bit quicker for cruise ship passengers to take the ferry from Alderney and walk the rest of the way to the casino than it would be to walk the entire length of the boardwalk with "cruise ship day" crowds.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I'm not certain but I'm guessing there are issues re: interference with other harbour traffic preventing a cruise terminal further north on the Halifax side. Having cruise ships dock at Purdy's means they would get in the way of the ferries and to some extent ships entering/leaving the Dockyard. Docking at Alderney would be a bit easier/less disruptive based on the shipping lanes and flow of harbour traffic, and the amount of space needed for ships to maneuver safely.

Alderney Landing might seem like an unglamourous place for tourists to unload but it has nice views, a good cross-section of "local" stuff, public washrooms and amenities, and often has markets/events going on during tourist season. In practice it's way nicer and more complete than the current Seaport terminals where passengers disembark at the base of the grain elevator and/or the abandoned Cunard Centre and then walk across several hundred metres of unsheltered asphalt (often in intense heat, or rain) to the buses or boardwalk. And it's way better than having cruise ships moor in the middle of the harbour because there's no dockspace left (which happens on occasion).

Re: the casino - it would make sense to move it to the Seaport area rather than the other way around. Currently it would be a bit quicker for cruise ship passengers to take the ferry from Alderney and walk the rest of the way to the casino than it would be to walk the entire length of the boardwalk with "cruise ship day" crowds.

Maybe 3500 passengers could stay on the Dartmouth side and go to Wiskey's?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Alderney Landing might seem like an unglamourous place for tourists to unload but it has nice views, a good cross-section of "local" stuff, public washrooms and amenities, and often has markets/events going on during tourist season. In practice it's way nicer and more complete than the current Seaport terminals where passengers disembark at the base of the grain elevator and/or the abandoned Cunard Centre and then walk across several hundred metres of unsheltered asphalt (often in intense heat, or rain) to the buses or boardwalk. And it's way better than having cruise ships moor in the middle of the harbour because there's no dockspace left (which happens on occasion).

This, and I expect that a cruise ship dock would also create some business and development activity on the Dartmouth side to make it more attractive for cruise ship patrons. DT Halifax would only be a charter bus or ferry ride away.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Empire

Maybe 3500 passengers could stay on the Dartmouth side and go to Wiskey's?

Guessing that you haven’t been to Dartmouth Down Town lately?

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Alderney Landing might seem like an unglamourous place for tourists to unload but it has nice views, a good cross-section of "local" stuff, public washrooms and amenities, and often has markets/events going on during tourist season. In practice it's way nicer and more complete than the current Seaport terminals where passengers disembark at the base of the grain elevator and/or the abandoned Cunard Centre and then walk across several hundred metres of unsheltered asphalt (often in intense heat, or rain) to the buses or boardwalk. And it's way better than having cruise ships moor in the middle of the harbour because there's no dockspace left (which happens on occasion).

I've never seen ship passengers have to make a long march across unsheltered asphalt to get to the tour buses taking them to Peggy's Cove. There is always a long conga line of Ambassatours coaches lined up on the inner edge of the old freight sheds which have become the cruise ship terminal. I do agree that the development of that area has failed badly with the collapse of the Seaport Market boondoggle and the Cunard Centre, but neither of those offered much to passengers anyway unless they had some event happening. Most of the time they were either empty or locked up.

Downtown Dartmouth was just awful in the past. It has had many recent changes. But it is still pretty awful. I imagine tourists walking up the hill on Portland looking for local attractions and encountering Staggers and its clientele. Generally speaking, passengers on those ships aren't the target market for craft beer, cider or kombucha. But maybe one of the cruise lines could market a hipster cruise.