Wellington Street Pedestrian Mall

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Then surely you would know the street is not marked or identified as being for pedestrian use and the only restrictions are on non-politician vehicles.

Sparks doesn't have any markings or explicit identifications of pedestrian use.
It only has the occasional (and poorly placed) sign indicating "deliveries only" between 7 and 10 AM. Authorized vehicles are allowed.

Princess Patricia way at Lansdowne was a brick-paved road that has been blocked off by planters and is no longer generally accessible by private vehicles, though it can still be accessed by 'authorized' vehicles.

These are both pedestrian spaces and treated as such.
How do the rules (or your version of them) apply to these examples? Be specific. Be consistent.

[rocketphish]

People may be able to drive past Parliament Hill again pending a city vote
Bylaw to close down segment of downtown Ottawa street expired at end of 2022

Joanne Chianello · CBC News
Posted: Jan 19, 2023 4:01 AM EST | Last Updated: 5 hours ago



After a year of not being able to drive along the capital's most recognizable roadway, Ottawa's city council is considering reopening Wellington Street to vehicles, despite the federal government's desire to keep it closed.

Mayor Mark Sutcliffe said he's "really excited" to hash out a long-term plan for Wellington Street with the federal government, but a final decision is more than a year off.

In the meantime, he'd like to see the concrete barriers removed.

"I'm open to listening to what everybody has to say about it, including other city councillors and members of the public," Sutcliffe told CBC. "But my inclination would be that unless there's a really good reason for it to be closed in the short term, that we should consider reopening it."

He said that Wellington Street worked just fine before the 2022 truck convoy protests, and the city shouldn't let what happened a year ago dictate how residents move around their city.

"I don't like the way it looks right now — it's a reminder of the convoy," Sutcliffe said. "If we're going to close the road to traffic, it should be because of a bigger plan that we have for Wellington and for downtown Ottawa, not because the convoy happened for three weeks in 2022."

But the member of Parliament for the downtown riding disagrees.

"It's my view that it would be premature at this time to consider reopening, even on a temporary basis when there are active conversations that are taking place between the federal government and City of Ottawa," said Yasir Naqvi, the Liberal MP for Ottawa Centre, which includes Parliament Hill.

He concedes that Wellington feels "abandoned," but suggested short-term additions such as banners and flags, lighting and benches — as well as programmed events like last summer's street hockey tournament — would make it more welcoming.

"I don't think that running cars and buses [on Wellington] results in a better look for the street," said Naqvi.

After a massive police operation moved the convoy protesters out of the parliamentary precinct last February, council moved to keep Wellington closed to traffic between Bank and Elgin streets for the rest of the year to prevent similar protests.

The decision on whether to reopen it was to be made at the first transportation committee meeting of this term of council, which is set for next Thursday.

Committee chair, Coun. Tim Tierney, is also leaning toward reopening Wellington until the city strikes a final deal with the federal government.

"It's ugly," he said frankly of the road that is blocked off by concrete barriers, "and it doesn't represent the capital of Canada."

Standing on a largely deserted Wellington Street, Tierney pointed to drivers who were ignoring the signs — officially, the road is open only to authorized vehicles travelling eastbound, but it's possible for cars to sneak around the barriers — and said that he and other council members were hearing from constituents that downtown traffic was starting to pick up.

Both Tierney and Sutcliffe point out that the city and the police services are better prepared to prevent the sort of truck protest that jammed downtown streets and closed local businesses for weeks.

"No one wants to see that again," said Tierney.

"But at the same time, we have a beautiful backdrop here in their city and I think a lot of people want to actually get access to it again."

The procedure around how council will decide on the reopening seems unusual.

For council decisions of any magnitude, city staff usually prepare a report with recommendations on what election officials should do.

That hasn't happened here.

Instead, the city's director of traffic services, Phil Landry, sent a report to transportation committee members on Tuesday with an update on the Wellington Street temporary closure.

According to the six-page memo, the closure has caused some increased congestion on nearby roads like Queen and Slater streets.

Detoured traffic has resulted in more right and left turns, which has the "potential to lead to greater conflict and safety hazards between turning vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians in crosswalks."

Still, wrote Landry, "the current closure has not had a significant negative impact to the transportation network," although it's unclear how the public service's partial return to the office could impact traffic in the future.

The report also says that consultant company Parsons is undertaking a major traffic study on the consequences of closing Wellington permanently — the study is being paid for by the federal government — but it's not expected to delivered to council until late this year or early 2024.

Landry makes no recommendation on what to do in the meantime.

Instead, Coun. Tierney said he will move a motion at next week's committee meeting regarding the reopening — whether to leave Wellington closed or to open it.

If it's the latter, it will take weeks or even months for the road to reopen. The councillor said there would have to be consultations with emergency services and repairs to the road. Two traffic lights that have been taken down in the past year would have to be replaced.

Whatever the committee decides will need to be approved at council.

Tierney is encouraging the public to come to speak to the issue at the transportation committee next week, and is asking his council colleagues to spread the word to their constituents.

But reopening Wellington Street could strain relations between the city and its federal partners.

The federal government has made it very clear it wants Wellington Street to stay closed to traffic, although it is open to active modes of transportation — think bike lanes — and "tramways." Last month, after hearing from dozens of witnesses, a House of Commons committee recommended that the security for Wellington Street fall under federal jurisdiction.

And the Liberal members of the committee want the government to enter into land transfer talks with the city to make Wellington Street part of the parliamentary precinct.

But a land transfer, which would probably come after the Parsons report due in a year, could take months to negotiate.

And the city would be looking for money or a land swap before giving up an iconic, if sometimes troublesome, street like Wellington.

But outside expropriating the road, the federal government has no say in whether it reopens in coming weeks or months.

"Whatever decisions are made in the short term are the decisions of the City of Ottawa because Wellington Street is under our jurisdiction," said the mayor.

"And if there's going to be any change in that, if it's going to become part of the federal jurisdiction, that needs to be part of a discussion and a negotiation between our two levels of government. So in the meantime, we have a decision to make."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/pe...hill-again-pending-a-city-vote-1.6717845

[Ottawacurious]

I like this line:

""Whatever decisions are made in the short term are the decisions of the City of Ottawa because Wellington Street is under our jurisdiction," said the mayor."

I feel it's a statement that is leading toward action. (yay!)

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

Sparks doesn't have any markings or explicit identifications of pedestrian use.
It only has the occasional (and poorly placed) sign indicating "deliveries only" between 7 and 10 AM. Authorized vehicles are allowed.

Princess Patricia way at Lansdowne was a brick-paved road that has been blocked off by planters and is no longer generally accessible by private vehicles, though it can still be accessed by 'authorized' vehicles.

These are both pedestrian spaces and treated as such.
How do the rules (or your version of them) apply to these examples? Be specific. Be consistent.

Sparks Street has been a pedestrian street for 60 years, has a consistent paving treatment that provides visual clues that it is a pedestrian street, has public art, patios, etc. in the middle of the street that prevent its use as a normal road. Has no road markings (lane markers, etc).

Princess Patricia way is not a pedestrian street. It is fully open to traffic except during special events and it is fully marked as a road. It has clear markings for where the "sidewalk" area is and where the car area is.

Wellington Street is fully marked as a road, has has temporary jersey barriers don't block access for vehicles, has nothing on the street (street furniture, etc) that would indicate the road is supposed to be used for pedestrians and has a steady stream of "authorized" vehicles on weekdays.

[Richard Eade]

I would be interested in knowing why traffic signals were removed from the intersections along that stretch of Wellington. Who authorized that decision? Who gets to pay for the signals to be reinstated?

OK, scratch that last question. It will be Ottawa tax-payers who pay (both for the removal and for the reinstalling). And, I'll bet that no-one will be held accountable for the decision to remove the lights in the first place.

Oh, I fully expect that staff will come up with an excuse like; "We have a Council-approved policy that we don't keep traffic signals on CLOSED roads. It is a waste of resources to do so, so it was in the tax-payers best interest to remove them." And I would be able to understand that, if the road had actually been CLOSED PERMANENTLY.

This closure was done through a temporary by-law that expired at the end of 2022. There had been no FORMAL decision to close the road permanently. At most, the traffic signals could have been turned off.

I am hoping that the road is quickly opened again to public traffic. To keep it closed is a reminder that the 'Freedom Convoy' defeated law and order. That it had enough power to terrorize a nation. The reasons put forth to keep the road closed are dressed as security measures. "If they come back, they won't be able to block this street again." That is fear speaking. This is the result of terrorism. And, yes, they won't be able to block that street because it has been closed to everyone.

While the fear that terrorism generates is very real, it is often not a good basis for making decisions. For the city to close Wellington so that it can't be closed by a possible return of protestors is almost akin to a man swearing off dating because his last date spent a week harassing him with near continual phone calls. Better to never date again; just in case that happens again. The fear is real, but the solution is not rational.

Just open the road, and show that rational thought does have a place in municipal government. Never opening the oven again, because you once burned your arm removing a sheet of cookies, is not the right solution. Learn from the incident and move on. Learn to watch for loose sand at corners, but get back on that bike after the fall.

Unfortunately, as the article says, it will still take weeks, or even months, to actually get the road usable. Why? Because that section of Wellington doesn't just "feel" abandoned, it was abandoned by the city. And abandoned road don't need traffic signals.

[J.OT13]

I'm generally ok with re-opening Wellington, at least for now. I'd like to see an actual plan being presented and implemented before closing it permanently.

[acottawa]

A few weeks ago I was a knuckle-dragging troglodyte for wanting the road reopened.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Sparks Street has been a pedestrian street for 60 years, has a consistent paving treatment that provides visual clues that it is a pedestrian street, has public art, patios, etc. in the middle of the street that prevent its use as a normal road. Has no road markings (lane markers, etc).

Princess Patricia way is not a pedestrian street. It is fully open to traffic except during special events and it is fully marked as a road. It has clear markings for where the "sidewalk" area is and where the car area is.

Wellington Street is fully marked as a road, has has temporary jersey barriers don't block access for vehicles, has nothing on the street (street furniture, etc) that would indicate the road is supposed to be used for pedestrians and has a steady stream of "authorized" vehicles on weekdays.

This is exactly what I observed on Tuesday morning. How does this become the wonderful pedestrian mall with a steady stream of 'authorized' vehicles, and then the idea of a tramway, which will itself create a security problem, not for Parliament, but for the tramway, whenever there are events or protests.

Imagine the symbol of overturning a LRT train on Wellington Street and the total chaos that would result. Doesn't Winnipeg have a monument of an overturned streetcar in memory of the 1919 general strike and riot?

We need to get rid of those ugly barriers before tourist season starts in May.

I will add, what happens when we also close the Interprovincial bridge, for rehabilitation, replacement or permanent closure to general traffic? At every turn, we want to close another downtown street.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I would be interested in knowing why traffic signals were removed from the intersections along that stretch of Wellington. Who authorized that decision? Who gets to pay for the signals to be reinstated?

OK, scratch that last question. It will be Ottawa tax-payers who pay (both for the removal and for the reinstalling). And, I'll bet that no-one will be held accountable for the decision to remove the lights in the first place.

Oh, I fully expect that staff will come up with an excuse like; "We have a Council-approved policy that we don't keep traffic signals on CLOSED roads. It is a waste of resources to do so, so it was in the tax-payers best interest to remove them." And I would be able to understand that, if the road had actually been CLOSED PERMANENTLY.

This closure was done through a temporary by-law that expired at the end of 2022. There had been no FORMAL decision to close the road permanently. At most, the traffic signals could have been turned off.

I am hoping that the road is quickly opened again to public traffic. To keep it closed is a reminder that the 'Freedom Convoy' defeated law and order. That it had enough power to terrorize a nation. The reasons put forth to keep the road closed are dressed as security measures. "If they come back, they won't be able to block this street again." That is fear speaking. This is the result of terrorism. And, yes, they won't be able to block that street because it has been closed to everyone.

While the fear that terrorism generates is very real, it is often not a good basis for making decisions. For the city to close Wellington so that it can't be closed by a possible return of protestors is almost akin to a man swearing off dating because his last date spent a week harassing him with near continual phone calls. Better to never date again; just in case that happens again. The fear is real, but the solution is not rational.

Just open the road, and show that rational thought does have a place in municipal government. Never opening the oven again, because you once burned your arm removing a sheet of cookies, is not the right solution. Learn from the incident and move on. Learn to watch for loose sand at corners, but get back on that bike after the fall.

Unfortunately, as the article says, it will still take weeks, or even months, to actually get the road usable. Why? Because that section of Wellington doesn't just "feel" abandoned, it was abandoned by the city. And abandoned road don't need traffic signals.

Thank you for posing the exact questions I had.

[rocketphish]

Debate ignites over future of Wellington Street, as council committee prepares to consider its reopening
Soon after the truckers were evicted, Ottawa city council passed a motion directing staff to explore the possibility of transferring ownership of Wellington Street.

Taylor Blewett, Andrew Duffy, Ottawa Citizen
Published Jan 19, 2023 • 5 minute read



A year into Wellington Street’s closure to traffic, brought on by a log-jam of Freedom Convoy protest vehicles and maintained amidst deliberations about its future, Ottawa Mayor Mark Sutcliffe says the city need to make a decision about reopening the downtown thoroughfare.

It wouldn’t be the final say on the matter, he explained to reporters Thursday after an unrelated press conference. There’s a long-term decision to be made about whether ownership of Wellington Street should be transferred from the city to the federal government, if it should be closed to vehicles permanently and how the boulevard could be reimagined.

But the city needs to decide what to do with the street in the meantime, said Sutcliffe, who noted that he’s listening to different perspectives and hasn’t made a final decision of his own. But if he had to decide today: “I would probably lean towards reopening it in the short-term because of the impact on traffic, the impact on residents in that area. We’ve heard from people who live in apartment buildings near Wellington Street and from small business owners in that area that it’s affected them.”

It’s an unwelcome development for at least one federal member of Parliament. Ottawa Centre Liberal MP Yasir Naqvi told this newspaper Thursday that he remains committed to seeing Wellington Street closed and reimagined as a pedestrian mall. He urged city councillors to allow ongoing negotiations with the federal government to continue without reopening Wellington Street to traffic.

“Any temporary reopening would seriously affect this objective, and will have negative security implications for the entire Parliamentary Precinct,” he argued.

Council’s transportation committee will consider the matter next week, Sutcliffe confirmed. While the meeting’s agenda contains no notice of a vote on the Wellington Street issue, committee chair Tim Tierney told CBC Ottawa earlier this week that he would be bringing forward a motion on the reopening question, with final approval of any decision to come from council as a whole.

A week out from their Thursday meeting, committee members had differing views about how to deal with what Jim Watson has called “the most important street in the country.”

Orléans West-Innes Coun. Laura Dudas told this newspaper that while she welcomes discussion about Wellington Street’s final form, “after a year of being temporarily closed as a response to the occupation, it is now time to reopen the road until there is a concrete plan.”

Gloucester-Southgate Coun. Jessica Bradley said she wants to hear from the public on the issue, but is worried that returning cars to Wellington Street could inhibit talks about the road’s future.

“I think we have an opportunity, right now, to reimagine Wellington Street as a more vibrant, animated space,” she said, “and I am concerned that this opportunity will be lost if we prematurely reopen Wellington to vehicle traffic.”

Premature was also a word used by federal minister Mona Fortier when she was asked by reporters Thursday about the potential lifting of Wellington Street’s closure.

“We want to make sure that Ottawa is safe and secure. We saw what happened with the convoy last year,” said the Ottawa-Vanier MP and president of the Treasury Board.

Soon after the truckers were evicted, Ottawa city council passed a motion directing staff to explore the possibility of transferring ownership of Wellington Street — and all of its costly security headaches — to the federal government.

A Parliamentary committee has studied the issue. The Standing Committee on Procedures and House Affairs issued a report in December that recommended the federal government assume responsibility for Wellington Street and Sparks Street as part of an expanded Parliamentary Precinct.

The committee also recommended Wellington Street remain closed from the National War Memorial to Kent Street.

Former Public Services and Procurement Minister Filomena Tassi told the committee that about half of all parliamentary offices will be located on the south side of Wellington Street by 2030. It means, she said, that Wellington Street “will no longer serve as a border for Parliament but will, instead, run right through its core.”

Then Sen. Vern White, a former Ottawa police chief, waned the committee that as long as direct vehicular access was permitted on Wellington Street, the risk existed for a car bombing like the one that destroyed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people.

Sutcliffe said that he sees valid arguments for and against an interim reopening of the street, and that council members need to decide what to do in the short-term, “based on all the criteria we have and what’s best for the city of Ottawa, not just for the Parliamentary precinct but for all of the city of Ottawa.”

Speaking for himself, he added, “I don’t like the idea that a convoy can come into Ottawa and then we permanently close the road as a consequence of that.

“I’d rather make a decision because there’s an exciting plan for the future of Wellington Street, not because the convoy came into Ottawa and we closed the road and we’re never going to open it again.”

While it didn’t include any staff recommendation about Wellington Street’s closure status, city director of traffic services, Phil Landry, send a memo to transportation committee members on Tuesday about how its shutdown to vehicles has been working out.

The closure hasn’t had a “significant negative impact to the transportation network,” Landry wrote. But he also pointed out that downtown traffic has increased over the past six months as pandemic restrictions have eased.

“While this increase in traffic can currently be managed through signal timing adjustments and other measures, it has the potential to cause congestion and delay for all roadway users in the future as workers continue to return to the downtown core.”

Already, he noted, detoured traffic has meant more vehicles turning at intersections, creating more potential for conflict and collisions with cyclists and pedestrians.

A working group of federal and city officials will oversee a transportation study of Wellington Street looking at the traffic implications of a permanent closure, Landry wrote. It will be conducted by Parsons Corporation and managed by the city, with staff expected to make recommendations to transportation committee and council about the future of Wellington Street in late 2023 or early 2024.

Wellington Street was one of the first two roads — the other was Rideau Street — added to the swampy village of Bytown almost two centuries ago.

After Bytown became Ottawa and Ottawa became the nation’s capital, Wellington Street became the road that led to the country’s most powerful institutions: the Parliament of Canada, the Supreme Court of Canada and the Office of the Prime Minister and Privy Council.

Pre-COVID, it was used by approximately 19,500 motorists daily.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...ittee-prepares-to-consider-its-reopening

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm generally ok with re-opening Wellington, at least for now. I'd like to see an actual plan being presented and implemented before closing it permanently.

Likewise. I guess we’ll see if this pressure tactic spurs the Feds into action.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm generally ok with re-opening Wellington, at least for now. I'd like to see an actual plan being presented and implemented before closing it permanently.

Let's be real, once Wellington is open to vehicles again, do you think Ottawa's car-is-king caucus will be open to alternative uses of the space? The protestations will be only louder than they are now, because for now they can't argue the sky will fall on downtown traffic.

Originally Posted by acottawa

A few weeks ago I was a knuckle-dragging troglodyte for wanting the road reopened.

Troglodyte or not, I can hardly accuse our new mayor either of bringing any interesting new ideas to the table here.

The grotesque reality is we've invested almost nothing in Wellington Street beautification since the convoy, letting a full tourist season go by. The sole accomplishment—removing the overhead clutter of stoplights in front of our top tourist destination—is now even target of grievance among the 'urbanists' on this forum.

It's a sad comment on our city that our leaders have tried nothing and run out of ideas for this space. Montreal would have gone wild with tactical urbanism experimentation. And as I wrote earlier, butt-ugly Wellington without vehicles or butt-ugly Wellington with vehicles is a false choice. As someone who has aspirations for this space, I hope the feds do what our uninspired city leaders will not and save us from ourselves.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson

It's a sad comment on our city that our leaders have tried nothing and run out of ideas for this space. Montreal would have gone wild with tactical urbanism experimentation. And as I wrote earlier, butt-ugly Wellington without vehicles or butt-ugly Wellington with vehicles is a false choice. As someone who has aspirations for this space, I hope the feds do what our uninspired city leaders will not and save us from ourselves.

Realistically, I think what you are characterizing as “butt ugly” is the only variation.

Parliament and the Government are not going to give up the blank wall of sealed, high security buildings that run the entire length of the South Side of Wellington. Parliament is not going to give up the stone wall and internal road network on the North Side of Wellington. So you are effectively left with a canyon with no connection to any sort of urban fabric, any sort of attractions or drivers of pedestrian traffic west of the centennial flame.

Maybe some of the urban planning enthusiasts know better, but I am struggling to think of a location where a government office street has been successfully pedestrianized. These types of streets in other capital cities are open to vehicles.

Moreover, even if there was a successful idea, it is extremely unlikely the “authorized” political or police vehicles are going to give up the street, so “pedestrianization” is likely to be a two lane “authorized” street and slightly wider sidewalks and maybe a cycle track. That setup already exists on Mackenzie Avenue if anyone wants to have a look.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Realistically, I think what you are characterizing as “butt ugly” is the only variation.

Parliament and the Government are not going to give up the blank wall of sealed, high security buildings that run the entire length of the South Side of Wellington. Parliament is not going to give up the stone wall and internal road network on the North Side of Wellington. So you are effectively left with a canyon with no connection to any sort of urban fabric, any sort of attractions or drivers of pedestrian traffic west of the centennial flame.

Maybe some of the urban planning enthusiasts know better, but I am struggling to think of a location where a government office street has been successfully pedestrianized. These types of streets in other capital cities are open to vehicles.

Moreover, even if there was a successful idea, it is extremely unlikely the “authorized” political or police vehicles are going to give up the street, so “pedestrianization” is likely to be a two lane “authorized” street and slightly wider sidewalks and maybe a cycle track. That setup already exists on Mackenzie Avenue if anyone wants to have a look.

There's just no world where Wellington becomes vibrant or an attraction in the ways we'd all like. The city wants a roadway for traffic, the feds want office/official/secured space that is highly controlled and looks good on a postcard (but is generally not accessible to the public). There's no path forward and at this point, the city and feds are just squabbling over crap. Open the road, close the road. Who cares. "Confederation Boulevard" has been a tremendous failure from a city building perspective. I always compared it to a theme park with Wellington as the main show. The only thing missing is the theme park train ride but that might soon be realized with the whole "transit" loop idea.

[lrt's friend]

Take a close look at the picture that accompanied the most recent newspaper article above.

What does one of the signs read?

"Please walk your bicycle"

So much for those hoping for a proper cycle track on Wellington Street. That is not likely to happen.

As I have said for weeks, and this has been repeated all day today on the radio, this is all about security, and has nothing to do with making downtown Ottawa a better place for residents and tourists.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

There's just no world where Wellington becomes vibrant or an attraction in the ways we'd all like. The city wants a roadway for traffic, the feds want office/official/secured space that is highly controlled and looks good on a postcard (but is generally not accessible to the public). There's no path forward and at this point, the city and feds are just squabbling over crap. Open the road, close the road. Who cares. "Confederation Boulevard" has been a tremendous failure from a city building perspective. I always compared it to a theme park with Wellington as the main show. The only thing missing is the theme park train ride but that might soon be realized with the whole "transit" loop idea.

The way forward could be that the Feds/NCC pay to cut-and-cover Wellington between Bank and Elgin so traffic runs underground and it’s park-like on top. It’s actually feasible and not so outlandish. They did a similar thing to Alberta’s Legislature in Edmonton, burying 97Ave NW which used to run past the building. Today they have a huge wading pool/fountain that’s quite popular on hot summer days

[LRTeverywhere]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Take a close look at the picture that accompanied the most recent newspaper article above.

What does one of the signs read?

"Please walk your bicycle"

So much for those hoping for a proper cycle track on Wellington Street. That is not likely to happen.

That is a bicycle detour sign for the portion between Mackenzie Ave and the closed portion of Wellington, put in place for the construction closure of the path along the river behind Parliament.

Notice the other sign a little to the left of it that says "Road closed, Bicycles Excepted". Explicitly allowing cycling...

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am struggling to think of a location where a government office street has been successfully pedestrianized.

I know a case where a pedestrian street has been successfully governmentized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparks_Street

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

The way forward could be that the Feds/NCC pay to cut-and-cover Wellington between Bank and Elgin so traffic runs underground and it’s park-like on top. It’s actually feasible and not so outlandish. They did a similar thing to Alberta’s Legislature in Edmonton, burying 97Ave NW which used to run past the building. Today they have a huge wading pool/fountain that’s quite popular on hot summer days

Not very familiar with Edmonton, but that approach appeals to me as a concept - a short cut and cover for traffic and transit.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I know a case where a pedestrian street has been successfully governmentized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparks_Street