[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[lirette]

Originally Posted by Franco401

Upscale barbershops are saving a lot of weird, small spaces in old buildings if you're OK with painting it black.

I've actually thought the market here might be a little saturated with barber shops. Suprised to see another one open, but hope it's successful. 5 years ago there was maybe 1 of these types of upscale shops, now you got 5 or 6, we've gotta be close to our limit. Especially given that younger kids are now growing out their hair longer. Glad to see this spot get filled though.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lirette

I've actually thought the market here might be a little saturated with barber shops. Suprised to see another one open, but hope it's successful. 5 years ago there was maybe 1 of these types of upscale shops, now you got 5 or 6, we've gotta be close to our limit. Especially given that younger kids are now growing out their hair longer. Glad to see this spot get filled though.

It's trendy like anything else. When NYC was emptying out its retail on Manhattan a few years before COVID the point was generally raised that specific types of services cannot be replaced with online shopping and thus won't be pushed out of markets. Typically those were nail salons and tattoo parlours. Barbershops would fit into that category as well.

[MonctonRad]

This has shown up on Canada Construct Connect

Retail Stores, Apartments, Parking Garages
Moncton, Westmorland County, New Brunswick
ConstructConnect Project ID: 1006109802

Stage: Construction Documents
Start Date: Sep 2023
Funding: Private
Value: $50,000,000
Work Type: New Building
Type: RESIDENTIAL

https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/...Y9yGneDyjE8lAS5DhcRCsCvJyzYtsNAavu_jLkGg

Given the mix of "retail, Apartments, parking garages", I can only presume this will be going downtown.

Is this phase one of the Ashford development in behind Assumption Place and along Downing Street? I find the timeline a little concerning. It mentions a start date of September 2023, but I was under the impression the next two years would be taken up with creating a new street grid south of Main Street, and the installation of underground services. I didn't expect the Ashford project to really get under way until 2025.

Could this be something else????

Nothing has come before PAC recently that would have a construction value such as this. If they truly intend to start in September 2023, they should be making presentations to PAC and/or city council in the next couple of months.

[NBNYer]

Very interesting find. Maybe Lafford's rapid progress on their development has put some pressure on Ashford to get going on their signature project and some construction can be done concurrently with the city's infrastructure work?

Perhaps a retooled St-Bernard's square?

Maybe the Icon development site?

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This has shown up on Canada Construct Connect



https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/...Y9yGneDyjE8lAS5DhcRCsCvJyzYtsNAavu_jLkGg

Given the mix of "retail, Apartments, parking garages", I can only presume this will be going downtown.

Is this phase one of the Ashford development in behind Assumption Place and along Downing Street? I find the timeline a little concerning. It mentions a start date of September 2023, but I was under the impression the next two years would be taken up with creating a new street grid south of Main Street, and the installation of underground services. I didn't expect the Ashford project to really get under way until 2025.

Could this be something else????

Nothing has come before PAC recently that would have a construction value such as this. If they truly intend to start in September 2023, they should be making presentations to PAC and/or city council in the next couple of months.

I think you’re absolutely right, this has to be the Ashford development. If this is the case, we may see the eastern portion of the new street south of assumption get built this summer. It’s also fantastic news that this project intends to have parking garages. I still believe that the site of the former paramount theatre would be the perfect place for a parking garage. You can tell that the parking lot built for SNB is not permanent. The type of pavement used and the lack of landscaping indicate it isn’t intended for long term existence. Perhaps an driveway/alleyway could be created from Westmorland street to the entrance of SNB, with a turnaround at the door, and an entrance to the parking structure would be on the south side of this driveway. This would eliminate the need for access to the parking garage from the newly created street, or directly onto Westmorland. If you incorporated a physical connection to Assumption place at the former entrance of SNB, this would also explain why the entrance of SNB was relocated.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by NBNYer

Very interesting find. Maybe Lafford's rapid progress on their development has put some pressure on Ashford to get going on their signature project and some construction can be done concurrently with the city's infrastructure work?

Perhaps a retooled St-Bernard's square?

Maybe the Icon development site?

I also was thinking about St. Bernard's Square. It was a $38 million project 2 years ago, and inflation would make even the exact same project a lot higher. And I'm sure that the new developer isn't going to just sit on this vacant land and pay the taxes on it forever.

The other one I was thinking about is the Junction Urban Village. They have purchased a couple of properties on the corner of Stewart & Main Streets to give them a bigger building footprint. I believe I read somewhere that their next project might be Junction Hall, but they've been flexible in the past in changing their plans. With the property across the street slated for a 10 floor building, I can see the Junction developer building something major on their corner. Could they do something similar to 55 Queen and incorporate the proposed hotel into a bigger project?

A $50 million project for the Icon property would be fantastic. That vacant land in that location is such a waste of potential.

Of course it could be Ashford, but as MonctonRad pointed out, the city has a lot of work to do before they can start to build. Not sure if a $50 million project could start this September but you never know.

What I'd really love to see is Aquilini blow everybody our of the water with a totally unexpected announcement for the Crowne Plaza block!

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

What I'd really love to see is Aquilini blow everybody our of the water with a totally unexpected announcement for the Crowne Plaza block!

I mean retail shops facing Main Street next to the new restaurant, a parking garage in the back and another tower where the old bus depot is. That could certainly be a possibility!

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

I mean retail shops facing Main Street next to the new restaurant, a parking garage in the back and another tower where the old bus depot is. That could certainly be a possibility!

And when we're talking about $50 million for a single project, it's something that not a lot of local developers are capable of doing. Money certainly wouldn't be an issue for Aquilini - $50 million would be peanuts for them. Also, it's been over 10 years since they've purchased the whole block and nothing has happened since then. We were wondering if Moncton was even anywhere near their radar. At least now we can see that Aquilini knows Moncton exists! Somehow though I don't think this is the one, unfortunately.

[Riberview]

Well.. $50million is nothing to sneeze at.

Remind me if the property that we now call the Icon property had ever gone before PAC? Was it Valmond Robichaud? Asked nicely to be included in the development tax break Zone.. and then was.. and then.... ?

Did anything ever go to PAC and get approved with a 4 or 5 year shelf license so as to elude my memory?

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by Riberview

Well.. $50million is nothing to sneeze at.

Remind me if the property that we now call the Icon property had ever gone before PAC? Was it Valmond Robichaud? Asked nicely to be included in the development tax break Zone.. and then was.. and then.... ?

Did anything ever go to PAC and get approved with a 4 or 5 year shelf license so as to elude my memory?

CBC story from 2018. It was a great looking building in the picture!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/moncton-harper-street-hotel-tax-1.4927837

[Riberview]

Good find.

$18 to $25million then. I wonder what that would be in today's dollar.

But not a residential build at that time so I think we can remove from list of suspects..

[MonctonRad]

Nice photo of the new Ashford Living building on Highfield Street, found in the T&T accompanying the article about the record building permit valuation in the city:

[jonny golden]

There's another project I was thinking about for that $50 million. It's a long shot, but what about Crombie finally doing something with 1222 Main Street? You have the lot between it and the Avenir center, as well as the old telegraph building. No doubt they are aware of the Moncton market, so you'd think that they would want to capitalize on it. Like I said, it's a long shot, but what a transformation they could make to a currently unpleasant block of downtown property.

[Riberview]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

There's another project I was thinking about for that $50 million. It's a long shot, but what about Crombie finally doing something with 1222 Main Street? You have the lot between it and the Avenir center, as well as the old telegraph building. No doubt they are aware of the Moncton market, so you'd think that they would want to capitalize on it. Like I said, it's a long shot, but what a transformation they could make to a currently unpleasant block of downtown property.

Where this is located in the "central business district," I wonder if they'd have to come to PAC for any changes to allow residential in that building.. Something tells me no, but something else tells me this isn't the spot.

Also.. $50million!
So picture something between Lafford's Birch Meadows building.. and Lafford's Three Sisters project.

That's HUGE.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Riberview

Also.. $50million!
So picture something between Lafford's Birch Meadows building.. and Lafford's Three Sisters project.

That's HUGE.

Indeed. Think something along the lines of a single 20-25 storey building, or a couple of more medium sized buildings.

Jonny Golden is right to point out 1222 Main and the Crombie lands next to the Avenir Centre as a possibility. This land is crying out for redevelopment, and, refurbishing 1222 Main as either residential or a hotel, and building an adjacent plaza (restaurant/retail) as well as some enclosed parking (to help service the Avenir Centre) would fit the bill quite nicely. A $50M investment sounds about right.

So, the three most likely possibilities for this mystery $50M development are:

1) phase one of the Ashford/Downing Street development
2) 1222 Main/Crombie development
3) Aquillini block

It will be very interesting to see what transpires.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Indeed. Think something along the lines of a single 20-25 storey building, or a couple of more medium sized buildings.

Jonny Golden is right to point out 1222 Main and the Crombie lands next to the Avenir Centre as a possibility. This land is crying out for redevelopment, and, refurbishing 1222 Main as either residential or a hotel, and building an adjacent plaza (restaurant/retail) as well as some enclosed parking (to help service the Avenir Centre) would fit the bill quite nicely. A $50M investment sounds about right.

So, the three most likely possibilities for this mystery $50M development are:

1) phase one of the Ashford/Downing Street development
2) 1222 Main/Crombie development
3) Aquillini block

It will be very interesting to see what transpires.

A big part of me feels like it's the Ashford phase one project. But what about all the infrastructure work that needs to be done? Can they start a large-scale construction project while the city is digging up the Assomption parking lot at the same time? If you look at the NB Govt. paol map you can see the new street configuration that they'll be establishing. It's hard to imagine Ashford executing a major ($50M) construction project at the same time.

Someone who works at city hall recently told a friend of mine that there are projects being planned for Moncton that would boggle the mind.

I really hope it's Aquilini or Crombie. Both are beyond capable of such an undertaking as $50 million to either of them of them would be chicken feed.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Indeed. Think something along the lines of a single 20-25 storey building, or a couple of more medium sized buildings.

Jonny Golden is right to point out 1222 Main and the Crombie lands next to the Avenir Centre as a possibility. This land is crying out for redevelopment, and, refurbishing 1222 Main as either residential or a hotel, and building an adjacent plaza (restaurant/retail) as well as some enclosed parking (to help service the Avenir Centre) would fit the bill quite nicely. A $50M investment sounds about right.

So, the three most likely possibilities for this mystery $50M development are:

1) phase one of the Ashford/Downing Street development
2) 1222 Main/Crombie development
3) Aquillini block

It will be very interesting to see what transpires.

Just to wrap my head around this project and given the fact $50 milliofn does not buy what it used to. Was the Three sister project valued at this amount for the 3 buildings? Does 50 Million get you three 15 storey or so, buildings these days.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

Just to wrap my head around this project and given the fact $50 milliofn does not buy what it used to. Was the Three sister project valued at this amount for the 3 buildings? Does 50 Million get you three 15 storey or so, buildings these days.

The Three Sisters is about a $100M project, so about half of that.

[Riberview]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

Someone who works at city hall recently told a friend of mine that there are projects being planned for Moncton that would boggle the mind.

I have also had someone who's desk sees all plans tell me that there are some unbelievable plans afoot, that no one would see coming..

Picture taller than Assomption and picture more than one.

I did not get to see these plans.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Riberview

I have also had someone who's desk sees all plans tell me that there are some unbelievable plans afoot, that no one would see coming..

Picture taller than Assomption and picture more than one.

I did not get to see these plans.

I have heard similar rumours (30-35 storeys). Like you, I have seen no plans. They are so difficult to believe that I generally refrain from mentioning them.