Downtown Vancouver Updates

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Vin

They really need to leave much of the heritage elements alone. The Bay's proposal is already one sad episode. The beautiful internal heritage columns and ceiling on the 6th floor will be history if they only keep the facades. That's not heritage conservation: that is heritage bastardization and destruction.

I agree about heritage bastardization. But look on the bright side: remember what they did to the Birks Building (where London Drugs now stands). For those unfamiliar, look at what we lost.
https://d3d0lqu00lnqvz.cloudfront.net/media/media/15be5766-5a46-4fe0-bccc-c7fbf0a3cd88.jpg

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I agree about heritage bastardization. But look on the bright side: remember what they did to the Birks Building (where London Drugs now stands). For those unfamiliar, look at what we lost.
https://d3d0lqu00lnqvz.cloudfront.net/media/media/15be5766-5a46-4fe0-bccc-c7fbf0a3cd88.jpg

the greatest lost building in Vancouver i think.

though, at the same time, the people who built it were the people who advocated for it being torn down if i remember the story right. in that case, i have mixed feelings. if i build a building, and decide i dont want it anymore, should government stop me?

i agree 100% to save buildings worth it when someone else owns it since they dont have the same connection to it. but the ones who built it? im not sure on that...

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by TwoFace

Interesting. Does this mean that there will be a freeze on current "shoulder area" applications?

In the article

Between now and the middle of 2024, there will be an interim rezoning policy blanketing this six-block stretch of Granville Street, which will temporarily restrict the submission of new rezoning enquires, policy enquires, or rezoning applications within the planning area — until City Council approves the area plan.

However, there will be an exception to the already-submitted 800 Granville Street rezoning application, which is the main trigger for the new planning process for the entire entertainment district. City staff will process the redevelopment proposal’s application concurrently with its area planning work, instead of asking proponents to hold off and further delay until the second half of 2024.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I agree about heritage bastardization. But look on the bright side: remember what they did to the Birks Building (where London Drugs now stands). For those unfamiliar, look at what we lost.
https://d3d0lqu00lnqvz.cloudfront.net/media/media/15be5766-5a46-4fe0-bccc-c7fbf0a3cd88.jpg

Interesting that many people fly to Europe to appreciate the kinds of buildings we destroy here. In fact, there are many types of beautiful architecture unique to North America that we'll never see again due to such rampant destruction.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Vin

Interesting that many people fly to Europe to appreciate the kinds of buildings we destroy here. In fact, there are many types of beautiful architecture unique to North America that we'll never see again due to such rampant destruction.

And yet people in Europe demolish old buildings we'd worship here without a second thought.

"Built in the 1700s? That recently? Why would you keep old crap like that?"

They're just buildings. If the way they look is important to you, take a picture, if you think the way they look is important for society, put those pictures in a museum.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Interesting that many people fly to Europe to appreciate the kinds of buildings we destroy here. In fact, there are many types of beautiful architecture unique to North America that we'll never see again due to such rampant destruction.

Which buildings are we destroying here? The Bay? The four buildings that are the basis of the Sinclair Centre? The exteriors are proposed for retention. The insides have been heavily altered and the retail space in the Bay isn't viable as retail space. The owner was already looking at converting the upper floors to office use before the latest idea of adding office on top.

At least some of the space in Vancouver's Bay store is viable. You'd probably be even less happy if you were in Winnipeg where their Downtown store was closed in 2020, valued at $0 and bought by Indigenous leadership for two beaver pelts and two elk hides. With funding from the province, the city of Winnipeg and the federal governmnet it's now going to be stripped out and converted to housing, a health centre and the governance house for the chiefs of the southern First Nations in Manitoba, with a big open atrium in the middle.

I guess the UK isn't part of Europe now, but things are even worse there, with departmental stores abandoned and proposed for total demolition all over the country.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Vin

Interesting that many people fly to Europe to appreciate the kinds of buildings we destroy here. In fact, there are many types of beautiful architecture unique to North America that we'll never see again due to such rampant destruction.

Yes, I think that's true. But on the flip side of the coin, although Europe has many beautiful historic buildings unimaginable here, some of their modern architecture is just pure ugly.
If you want ugly, go to La Défense immediately west of Paris, then just immediately behind, to Nanterre, which must be one of the ugliest districts with among the ugliest buildings I ever saw.
Although Northern Europe (Scandinavia, Germany NL) often does modern designs well, it seems to get worse as you go south. French cities are sort of a toss-up but try Naples.
Antiquity plus 'Third World' hideousness, esp' the 'downtown.'

[Migrant_Coconut]

The only ones really worth keeping were the old 1477 West Broadway and St Paul's; one's gone, and the other will likely follow it. Such is life. Having the feds preserve the exteriors of Sinclair is more than enough.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by chowhou

And yet people in Europe demolish old buildings we'd worship here without a second thought.

"Built in the 1700s? That recently? Why would you keep old crap like that?"

They're just buildings. If the way they look is important to you, take a picture, if you think the way they look is important for society, put those pictures in a museum.

Funny, but you just showed everyone that people in Europe are fighting hard to save historic structures:

Final desperate effort to save historic buildings overlooking Hyde Park

When Hudson Bay's upcoming destruction is announced, even forumers here are meek and complying. No wonder the best of North American cities are lost in time.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Vin

Funny, but you just showed everyone that people in Europe are fighting hard to save historic structures

Less than 2000 signatures in London isn't fighting hard. Thought you might say that though! It's a desperate struggle because they had no chance (and it got knocked down).

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

When Hudson Bay's upcoming destruction is announced, even forumers here are meek and complying. No wonder the best of North American cities are lost in time.

More 'words Vin doesn't know the meaning of'. Destruction.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Less than 2000 signatures in London isn't fighting hard. Thought you might say that though! It's a desperate struggle because they had no chance (and it got knocked down).

Indeed. And when people in Vancouver fight to block some other redevelopment, suddenly the usual suspects will pull a 180 and call it "obstructionist" and "NIMBY" and "the reason Vancouver is "behind" everybody." Can't have the argument both ways.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Less than 2000 signatures in London isn't fighting hard. Thought you might say that though! It's a desperate struggle because they had no chance (and it got knocked down).

People did care about those buildings, and that counts towards the protection of others.

Care to share a whole bunch of other heritage buildings destroyed or to be destroyed in Europe as exaggerated by yourself?

Originally Posted by Changing City

More 'words Vin doesn't know the meaning of'. Destruction.

And the person living in his own echo chamber speaketh.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Yes, I think that's true. But on the flip side of the coin, although Europe has many beautiful historic buildings unimaginable here, some of their modern architecture is just pure ugly.
If you want ugly, go to La Défense immediately west of Paris, then just immediately behind, to Nanterre, which must be one of the ugliest districts with among the ugliest buildings I ever saw.
Although Northern Europe (Scandinavia, Germany NL) often does modern designs well, it seems to get worse as you go south. French cities are sort of a toss-up but try Naples.
Antiquity plus 'Third World' hideousness, esp' the 'downtown.'

That is true, especially in green fields or some newer European neighbourhoods, which can be quite similar to the higher density neighbourhoods of North America. At least Paris's central area is very well protected. There are also many places in Europe that excel in the protection of heritage architecture and other cultural assets, such as Poland, with 17 UNESCO heritage sites:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heritage_Sites_in_Poland

Krakow, Poland:
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0614965,...XWO_c9MtuBZ7k6nojxE9g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

What amazes me is that many of the preserved buildings were actually destroyed in WW2, but lovingly rebuilt post-war.

[Changing City]

Vin: you seem to be struggling with the meaning of words again. The Birks Building was destroyed. The second Hotel Vancouver was destroyed. The Georgia Medical Dental Building was destroyed. The plans for The Bay don't currently show it being destroyed, just like the Post Office hasn't been destroyed.

[csbvan]

Some buildings should be beyond the reach of facadism. Hard to get more clear of an example than Sinclair Centre.

[Migrant_Coconut]

YMMV; I've seen the inside of Sinclair Centre... and it looks like friggin' City Square. Build, baby, build.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

YMMV; I've seen the inside of Sinclair Centre... and it looks like friggin' City Square. Build, baby, build.

Yeah I think it was already ruined with a previous renovation.

Waterfront looks good and should remain though.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Vin

When Hudson Bay's upcoming destruction is announced, even forumers here are meek and complying. No wonder the best of North American cities are lost in time.

Do you ever leave that basement apartment?

[mcj]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The plans for The Bay don't currently show it being destroyed, just like the Post Office hasn't been destroyed.

Both of these buildings were gutted long ago from their original insides, the facades is the only element of heritage that remains, and remain they shall.

The city has done a great job keeping the Dominion Building and Sun Tower in top shape, funny how neither of those have been mentioned as they're much more integral to the city's history than The Bay or The Post (btw does anyone know the original name of the buildings themselves without googling them?).

Personally I'm not a fan of heritage designation at all, since it's usually just what matters to a certain in-group and are hardly ever publicly accessible, if it truly has such great value to the greater public it should at least be publicly accessible.