Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Nashe

I'm sure you know the reason for that. It broadens the market you can appeal to, as it allows the buyer to customize easier, one room at a time. It's a similar reason why you don't see a lot of pink, purple or yellow cars at dealerships.

That's the rationale, but in practice it's spilled over into actual interior design--like, neutrals aren't just favoured for staging a house, but for actual decoration. Now we see new builds and flip renos full of grey plank flooring and extreme prejudice against any kind of colour. It's gone too far, IMO.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

This is l, I think, the current direction that generic design is taking in the city, core and suburbs. This is what the middle-aged soccer moms who don’t give it much thought will insist upon over the next couple years, and vaguely what most new builds are starting to look like to start:

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/25136290/38-gower-street-st-johns

Funny, because this is an absolute riot of colour compared to what you see in some places. A green door! Warm wood tones! It's generic but not bad.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

That's the rationale, but in practice it's spilled over into actual interior design--like, neutrals aren't just favoured for staging a house, but for actual decoration. Now we see new builds and flip renos full of grey plank flooring and extreme prejudice against any kind of colour. It's gone too far, IMO.

It's the same principle though. You aren't going to replace flooring or wall colors for a potential buyer after they've viewed it. Terra-cotta rust tiles? Locks your kitchen or dining room into a specific palette going forward. Granted, I've only flipped about 4 places but every time I've settled on grey tones as it allows buyers to "imagine" their stuff in there easier. Has nothing to do with "looking homey" and more providing a sellable product that doesn't require much imagination. Is it to my taste? No, but I'm not the one buying it.

Why are dockers and khakis popular? Reasonably comfortable and go with everything.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Funny, because this is an absolute riot of colour compared to what you see in some places. A green door! Warm wood tones! It's generic but not bad.

Yeah that's actually pretty nice compared to some of the reno-flip specials we looked at when house hunting.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

I don't see how a full size fridge is a waste of space. It's a huge benefit. The kitchen is the heart of the home for people who cook and entertain. So is ample counter space.

In a country with ample land and space like Canada, wasted space is only possible in detached SFH.

If you live in a high rise you shouldnt be worried about wasted space. We will never be Paris or Tokyo.

No new condo kitchen is the heart of the home. They’re tiny spaces designed for people who order DoorDash.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Nashe

It's the same principle though. You aren't going to replace flooring or wall colors for a potential buyer after they've viewed it. Terra-cotta rust tiles? Locks your kitchen or dining room into a specific palette going forward. Granted, I've only flipped about 4 places but every time I've settled on grey tones as it allows buyers to "imagine" their stuff in there easier. Has nothing to do with "looking homey" and more providing a sellable product that doesn't require much imagination. Is it to my taste? No, but I'm not the one buying it.

Why are dockers and khakis popular? Reasonably comfortable and go with everything.

Sure, but why the trend to, for example, grey plank flooring with fake wood grain, instead of something resembling a simple wood colour? It's become so aggressively monochrome that it's a little weird now.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by whatnext

No new condo kitchen is the heart of the home. They’re tiny spaces designed for people who order DoorDash.

These ridiculous layouts are meant for AirBnB operators. Long term rental and owner occupation are very far from mind.

[WarrenC12]

The kitchen concerns are funny. I lived in a 400sf place for many years. You know what I didn't need? A full size oven and 4 burner stove.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nashe

It's the same principle though. You aren't going to replace flooring or wall colors for a potential buyer after they've viewed it. Terra-cotta rust tiles? Locks your kitchen or dining room into a specific palette going forward. Granted, I've only flipped about 4 places but every time I've settled on grey tones as it allows buyers to "imagine" their stuff in there easier. Has nothing to do with "looking homey" and more providing a sellable product that doesn't require much imagination. Is it to my taste? No, but I'm not the one buying it.

This functional rationale should have held in past modern decades though. If you showed off a simple looking room with no colour in 1970 people probably would have considered it sterile. I think it is largely fashion and is likely to shift again in the future.

Drybrain's point about wood is true too. Real indoor wood flooring and furniture is... wood colour.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

One thing I find interesting about these St. John's real-estate listings—at least the ones in the inner city—is that the whole awful trend of beige/grey everything imposed by realtors, home stagers and the HGTV economy doesn't seem to have hit the city as hard as elsewhere. There looks to be a lot more individual eccentricity, interesting interiors, and colour. The mainland trend, and indeed the North American trend, seems to be to make every surface, even floors and exposed wood, a monochromatic palette of whites and grays.

If my wife had her way, our home would be shades of grey. Thank goodness I can use the argument about being in the navy and hate grey as a way to avoid it.

Originally Posted by Nashe

I'm sure you know the reason for that. It broadens the market you can appeal to, as it allows the buyer to customize easier, one room at a time. It's a similar reason why you don't see a lot of pink, purple or yellow cars at dealerships.

You mean I buy a new car and then pay to have it painted?

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by someone123

Drybrain's point about wood is true too. Real indoor wood flooring and furniture is... wood colour.

...and a lot more expensive. Vinyl plank or laminate is relatively cheap. You don't put in real hardwoods unless you think you'll get your money back or generate more interest. And even then, you play it safe on palette.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nashe

...and a lot more expensive. Vinyl plank or laminate is relatively cheap. You don't put in real hardwoods unless you think you'll get your money back or generate more interest. And even then, you play it safe on palette.

I put normal hardwood looking flooring in my place because I like it, and I don't think we would tear it out or put grey boards over it to stage it in the event that we put it up for sale. I wouldn't want to live in an ugly staged condo inspired by 2007 iPhones and Cactus Club for years on end, or base every decision about my living space primarily on what strangers would pay the most for in the future and what makes money for me. I think the resale value obsession has become, to some degree, a meme that makes some people less happy (it's the first thing a lot of people will bring up when they talk about renos, even when they have no plan to move). And most people worry too much about what others think to begin with.

Around here everything is expensive including a lot of run down and super ugly properties. I'm not sure it makes much difference. Maybe farther out in the suburbs.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by someone123

I put normal hardwood looking flooring in my place because I like it, and I don't think we would tear it out or put grey boards over it to stage it in the event that we put it up for sale. I wouldn't want to live in an ugly staged condo inspired by 2007 iPhones and Cactus Club for years on end, or base every decision about my living space primarily on what strangers would pay the most for in the future and what makes money for me. I think the resale value obsession has become, to some degree, a meme that makes some people less happy (it's the first thing a lot of people will bring up when they talk about renos, even when they have no plan to move). And most people worry too much about what others think to begin with.

Around here everything is expensive including a lot of run down and super ugly properties. I'm not sure it makes much difference. Maybe farther out in the suburbs.

I thought we were talking about flipped and/or new units for sale? I'm not sure what above has to do with that... your protocol above generally isn't what is done.
If someone is doing a renovation already (possibly in interest of selling) and they believe it is worth their while to remove dated and/or worn hardwood for something newer, cheaper but less specific to taste, it's a monetary risk they might be willing to take. Refinishing hardwoods often costs more than replacing with something else. It's all about the bottom line. You aren't renovating for YOUR personal taste, you're doing it for the market, even if you hate the aesthetic.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The kitchen concerns are funny. I lived in a 400sf place for many years. You know what I didn't need? A full size oven and 4 burner stove.

In the current micro-unit that I have for the time being, I’m finding that the standard 4-burner stove top (thanks to being a perfectly flat surface, unlike the old-style ones with the exposed elements) is just functionally part of the countertop surface (of which I don’t have that much), so it’s not a problem. Very often, when cooking, the stove top is my preparation surface. One burner is being used and the other three-quarters of the stove top serves as my kitchen counter, where I’m cutting my veggies to throw them in the pan that’s on the one burner getting used.

Pretty sure it’s natural to do this, so I assume everyone else does it, therefore it’s not wasted space. It’s nice to have spare burners too. I used two simultaneously a couple times…

The oven serves occasionally, too. I wouldn’t want to give it up for an extra cupboard the size of an oven.

[rousseau]

Aren't wallpaper and carpeting trendy nowadays? In winter I find myself feeling nostalgic about the wall-to-wall carpet of my youth. It adds warmth, is comfy on the feet, and you can roll around on it.

I grew up, turned my back on suburbia and embraced hardwood floors as a vital part of my aesthetic preference for old houses--the 130-year-old floors where where we are now really are eye-catching and sealed the deal for us when we first stepped into this place--but I can't lie, sometimes I catch myself really enjoying the carpet at my Dad's place and I feel like a traitor.

[SignalHillHiker]

The general market preference does change, however slowly. The grey floors people have mentioned are actually a great example - they’re on the way out, just like the reddish-toned ones before them. Within a couple of years, even the most cut-cost suburban builders will no longer be putting in grey floors. Most of the better-designed ones are already nearly at two years of installing normal wood tones. The pendulum keeps swinging.

For another example, fully open-concept homes are starting to go out of style. People doing renovations to their own homes are at about three years of generally not doing open concept, or implementing ways to reverse it. New builders will soon move that direction as well.

These generic market preferences are generally architectural or builder-grade designs that take forever to change over. They’re layout, walls, floors, cabinets, fixtures, boob lights, vanity strip lights, on and on. They often remain unchanged for a decade or more but they do change.

Grey floors are going the same way as the reddish-black ones before them, all-white kitchens are going the way of the orange oak faux-Tuscan before them, on and on. It’s fascinating stuff to watch. It’s why it’s so crucial to figure out what you like and just do it. It’ll never go out of style for you that way. The midcentury furniture I love is a couple of years into the process of replaced by postmodern in trendy design, but I’ll never change mine because I love that style, always have. Surround yourself in the styles and colours you love. You should smile every time you wake up, every time you come home.

I was ready to throw myself off Signal Hill back in December after 21 days of overcast grey skies. Why anyone would ever consciously choose to live inside a home mirroring that effect is beyond me. Of course, I understand some people prefer that. But I think it’s objectively obvious most haven’t given it much thought, they live in what they think they’re supposed to like. Can’t be good for the mental health. I welcome the switch back to warm tones, even if it is just browns and beiges. I think it’ll be better for a majority of people, a majority of the time.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Nashe

I thought we were talking about flipped and/or new units for sale? I'm not sure what above has to do with that... your protocol above generally isn't what is done.
If someone is doing a renovation already (possibly in interest of selling) and they believe it is worth their while to remove dated and/or worn hardwood for something newer, cheaper but less specific to taste, it's a monetary risk they might be willing to take. Refinishing hardwoods often costs more than replacing with something else. It's all about the bottom line. You aren't renovating for YOUR personal taste, you're doing it for the market, even if you hate the aesthetic.

I was just commenting on the trend and what I think more generally, not really disagreeing with anything in particular. But at this point I think this grey stuff is on its way out, and you're probably better off being ahead of the curve. Particularly if it's not what's done with most units. If the market has a bunch of vintage worn out stuff plus greyscale, your warmer and more vibrant looking unit will stand out. And wood flooring is pretty conservative. We are not talking about doing the bedroom in an Aztec theme and going with sex dungeon for the living room.

I wonder as well about the idea that you want to cast the widest net possible for buyers. You want the highest purchase price, and that could come from a niche buyer. It really depends. No doubt this is part of why you see interesting looking urban units and TV home decorator Home Depot special McMansions. They are for different buyers and strategies.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Architype

Does that necessarily mean that you approve of our environmentally destructive, gas eating, sprawling, hedonistic, dehumanizing, North American suburban lifestyle formats, or do you think there are other options not explored, developed, or readily available to us? Just a thought.

The sweet spot for me is a detached SFH run on clean renewable energy, in a residential neighborhood where you can do your jogging and running and walking in total peace and quiet, but that’s right next to a commercial area where you can walk to get your groceries if you want to, and right next to an interstate freeway, with a metro area of several million people 45 minutes away for those times you need “big city” stuff (and on the other side, the beach ~10 minutes away), a nice inground pool in the very private and reasonably-sized backyard, an indoor garage for my tools and for tinkering, and a self-driving electric car in the driveway.

Except for the very last part, I already have exactly this, and over the last decade, all the time I’ve spent living in that house, I’ve found it to be the nicest balance of urbanity and quiet/privacy.

Living in St. John’s-inside-Empire-Avenue has got to be an acquired taste

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by someone123

I was just commenting on the trend and what I think more generally. But at this point I wonder if following the herd with this norm is the best thing to do or just the most done thing. The median reno will be whatever the old trend is long after it becomes dated.

I mean, I don't disagree with you. I personally prefer rather "warm" places myself. My commentary is more about "why you see so much grey/white/beige in real estate ads".

You've got people who want to sell but realize they have to do at least MINIMAL updating to access the market. Those people go for what is neutral and cheap and lets potential buyers "see themselves" in a given space... it's much easier to wrap their heads around "let's live with the cheap floors for a while and just paint the walls what we like" when most of the place is neutral. "Stylish" offerings are risky... the RIGHT buyer will pay top dollar, but most can't wrap their heads around how to get from that to what they really want so they write it off and move on to the next offering.

And then you've got speculators who are flipping crap and or building large amounts of new units and it's all about the numbers. Their bottom line dictates that they'll only take a chance going with higher end finishes if they are sure it will get them extra market interest and/or cash.

The mom-and-pops who say "screw it, I like this style and someone else must like it" so offer their house "as-is" generally end up selling to a flipper who doesn't mind gutting the place and throwing out the bric-a-brac and going with above, anyway. I have relatives who's house sat on the market for years (in SW ON, actually) because they had too much emotional investment in it... they wanted a buyer who loved their style. That wasn't happening. They did a few cosmetic changes (paint, floor updates in the basement to "greige", general cleanup) and suddenly buyers could envision possibilities, and it sold.

There's a method to the madness.

[swimmer_spe]

I think there is something to be said with some of the dated stuff.It seems some of it is becomes trendy within a few decades of tearing it out. If it is good quality, why replace it? this comes back to my thinking that your house is a home, not an investment.