Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[memememe76]

Originally Posted by someone123

This group is exempt from the foreign home buyer policy. And their spouse or common-law partner qualifies for work permits. People keep saying this is a highly skilled group but it includes first-year students in any degree program as far as I can tell and as I pointed out this results in 2x work permits with 1 having perhaps no educational requirements at all.

On the university side it's a big cash cow so they have an incentive to try to increase these numbers.

An International Student would have to have filed all required income tax returns for each of the five taxation years preceding the year in which the purchase was made, and be physically present in Canada for a minimum of 244 days in each of the five calendar years preceding the year in which the purchase was made. And there is the $500K purchase price limit. I mean, their schooling would be over by the time they qualify.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by memememe76

An International Student would have to have filed all required income tax returns for each of the five taxation years preceding the year in which the purchase was made, and be physically present in Canada for a minimum of 244 days in each of the five calendar years preceding the year in which the purchase was made. And there is the $500K purchase price limit. I mean, their schooling would be over by the time they qualify.

Interesting. That is less of a loophole than I thought but it's a little strange and does undermine the goal somewhat. It means that in many markets students will be able to buy up starter homes and condos (anything under 500k in a city, anything not in a city). Even Vancouver has some units priced under 500k. The RBC mortgage calculator suggests the payment on a $400k mortgage will be $2,500 a month or so, already not so affordable for many working class people. You could argue that the students should be buying high-end properties while the low end should be more protected. If we had a Special Economic Zone where anybody could buy Butterfly style condos, and then made other parts of the city off limits, that would probably work better.

CMHC has a page describing the new rules: https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/media-newsroom/notices/2022/ensuring-housing-owned-canadians

Other examples of exceptions are anything not in a CMA/CA, or a residential building with more than 3 units.

The fine is $10,000 which in the scheme of real estate is basically nothing and there seems to be no criminal penalty. Not sure if there would be any more serious penalty for a lawyer or real estate agent who handles a bunch of foreign buyer transactions.

[memememe76]

They would still have to pay the 20% Additional Property Transfer Tax (in BC, at least; isn't it 25% in Ontario).

[whatnext]

Let's hear it for Trudeau's runaway immigration train:

Photos: Tiny Vancouver rental is more hallway than bedroom
The bed awkwardly touches three walls.
Brendan Kergin

The Vancouver rental market is tight, and this awkward room seems to take that idea literally.

The tiny room is in a downtown Vancouver apartment. Advertised on Facebook for $850, the space isn't just small, but oddly shaped. In photos online, it appears to either be a hallway to nowhere or a deep, 'L' shape closet.

The room does have a bed, though it appears to be just a cot. Even so, it fills the width of the room, blocking any passage to the back of the room, which widens out. There is a rack to hang clothing from.

Aside from the rack and the bed, there's nothing else in the room as far as furniture goes, and it doesn't look like much more would fit....

[IMG]hall-bedroom-vancouver by bcborn, on Flickr[/IMG]
Credit: VancouverIsAwesome

[SpongeG]

I had many friends back in the 90s who lived in dining rooms in the west end, you do what you have to do. But that is pretty funny/ridiculous.

[Coldrsx]

It's not uncommon in other countries to pack up your living or dining room and putting down mats, tatamis, etc. to make the most efficient use of your space; especially when $/sqft is astronomical.

Hell, our second room/office/visitor bedroom works well due to a quality futon.

Function, economical and when you have an amazing city below you, why hangout in a crappy apartment.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

… and when you have an amazing city below you, why hangout in a crappy apartment.

Because there’s a ton of things in life that it’s nice to be able to do at home, regardless of how “amazing” the city is.

This is functionally equivalent to living in a Japanese capsule hotel: the sarcophagus that you call “home” is just a place to sleep, and during the day, you are in places that aren’t “home” (you’re at work, you’re at a cafe, you’re at the library, you’re at the gym, you’re at the restaurant, you’re taking a walk, etc.)

Might as well save the $850 and just go sleep in a homeless shelter every night. Your life will be about the same — a place to sleep, but no “home” for you to be doing indoors home-y stuff when you’re not sleeping.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Let's hear it for Trudeau's runaway immigration train:

Can ten South Asians even physically fit in there?!?

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Let's hear it for Trudeau's runaway immigration train:

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I had many friends back in the 90s who lived in dining rooms in the west end, you do what you have to do. But that is pretty funny/ridiculous.

You don't say. How can that be? Back then Brian Mulroney (a conservative) was the PM.

The "Trudeau's runaway immigration train" had not left the station yet. The train was likely a set of parts on a Bombardier factory floor waiting to be assembled.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Let's hear it for Trudeau's runaway immigration train:

Maybe if you supported more housing we wouldn't be in this problem. NIMBYs share the blame.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

It's not uncommon in other countries to pack up your living or dining room and putting down mats, tatamis, etc. to make the most efficient use of your space; especially when $/sqft is astronomical.

Hell, our second room/office/visitor bedroom works well due to a quality futon.

Function, economical and when you have an amazing city below you, why hangout in a crappy apartment.

So you want Canadians to enjoy that standard of living? Ever been through a winter in Vancouver? It is wet, wet and more wet. You don't find a thriving street life in that environment. You'll find most people spend the evenings at home. Hopefully the would be renter of that space enjoys evenings in their cell.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So you want Canadians to enjoy that standard of living? Ever been through a winter in Vancouver? It is wet, wet and more wet. You don't find a thriving street life in that environment. You'll find most people spend the evenings at home. Hopefully the would be renter of that space enjoys evenings in their cell.

Vancouver rains a lot but the streets are hardly empty all winter. You're projecting your own experiences again.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Vancouver rains a lot but the streets are hardly empty all winter. You're projecting your own experiences again.

They're not empty but don't try to claim Vancouver has a vibrant street life on a the many rainy winter evenings. Similarly I doubt a whole lot of folks are out enjoying Calgary's streets on an evening with -30 temps.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by whatnext

They're not empty but don't try to claim Vancouver has a vibrant street life on a the many rainy winter evenings. Similarly I doubt a whole lot of folks are out enjoying Calgary's streets on an evening with -30 temps.

I am guessing you do not know what an umbrella or a coat or a tuque is. Most intelligent people do not just hibernate for the winter.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

They're not empty but don't try to claim Vancouver has a vibrant street life on a the many rainy winter evenings. Similarly I doubt a whole lot of folks are out enjoying Calgary's streets on an evening with -30 temps.

Vancouver has a vibrant downtown street life year round. You heard it here first!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

It's not uncommon in other countries to pack up your living or dining room and putting down mats, tatamis, etc. to make the most efficient use of your space; especially when $/sqft is astronomical.

Hell, our second room/office/visitor bedroom works well due to a quality futon.

Function, economical and when you have an amazing city below you, why hangout in a crappy apartment.

Have to agree with others and add that there are probably only a handful of cities worldwide where many of us would take the trade-off of a truly miniscule living space in exchange for simply being there. And none of those cities are in Canada BTW.

And even so almost no-one would settle down in a place if that were going to be your likely living quarters for an extended period of time.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Have to agree with others and add that there are probably only a handful of cities worldwide where many of us would take the trade-off of a truly miniscule living space in exchange for simply being there. And none of those cities are in Canada BTW.

And even so almost no-one would settle down in a place if that were going to be your likely living quarters for an extended period of time.

Thus long term Canadians are leaving Canada's biggest cities. Only those coming from the developing world would put up with those kind of conditions. Doesn't bode well long-term for urban centres if the inhabitant become largely those working low wage jobs squeezed into in tiny living situations. In fact it sounds exactly like the conditions for much of the twentieth century that set off the flight to the suburbs.

People Are Leaving Canada’s Biggest Cities Amid a Housing Crunch
-Toronto exodus nears 100,000 as home prices reach peak
-Montreal, Vancouver also seeing tens of thousands depart
By Randy Thanthong-Knight and Erik Hertzberg
January 11, 2023 at 7:51 AM PST

Canada’s largest cities are getting bigger and more expensive, forcing hundreds of thousands of people to search for affordable housing elsewhere.

Toronto, the country’s biggest urban center, saw nearly 100,000 people leave the area, with 78% choosing to settle in other parts of the province over a one-year period to July 1, according to Statistics Canada data released Wednesday.

Montreal and Vancouver, Canada’s second and third biggest cities, saw about 35,000 and 14,000 people exit, respectively....

... International migration, however, more than offset these losses. The data showed most newcomers preferred large urban centers over rural areas. Canada’s largest population centers gained more than 600,000 people from international migration, compared with just 21,000 settling in smaller communities. Toronto gained 216,600 people from immigration....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...crunch?srnd=premium-canada&sref=x4rjnz06

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Have to agree with others and add that there are probably only a handful of cities worldwide where many of us would take the trade-off of a truly miniscule living space in exchange for simply being there. And none of those cities are in Canada BTW.

And even so almost no-one would settle down in a place if that were going to be your likely living quarters for an extended period of time.

I don't disagree - Paris, London, NYC, Tokyo, HK come to mind, but Vancouver's $/sqft for residential is pushing more towards that.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Have to agree with others and add that there are probably only a handful of cities worldwide where many of us would take the trade-off of a truly miniscule living space in exchange for simply being there. And none of those cities are in Canada BTW.

And even so almost no-one would settle down in a place if that were going to be your likely living quarters for an extended period of time.

Exactly. In my case I’d go a bit further and say there’s no city on the planet, no matter how exciting or amazing, that would even come close to justifying the trade-off of my permanent “home” being a Japanese capsule hotel.

I’ll take a “boring” First World city where I can have an actual home, any day.

If that cupboard-under-the-stairs was the only “home” I could afford in Vancouver (a city I don’t even find that desirable), I’d be out of there in a New York millisecond, and never look back.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

It's not uncommon in other countries to pack up your living or dining room and putting down mats, tatamis, etc. to make the most efficient use of your space; especially when $/sqft is astronomical.

Hell, our second room/office/visitor bedroom works well due to a quality futon.

Function, economical and when you have an amazing city below you, why hangout in a crappy apartment.

that's a bit different than sub 300 or sub 200! sq ft "units"

As someone that once lived in a micro (sub 400 sq ft) apartment thankfully new with huge windows, I'd say a single person in Canada needs at least ~550-600 sq ft minimum!