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  #15921  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2023, 7:10 PM
Fading Isle Fading Isle is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
"Storm cars" is supposed to be part of the deal, but I'm not sure if they actually implement it.

As for the anti-freeze and every other TTC practice, it seems it wasn't in the Project Agreement. As I said earlier, the City went with P3 in part to rely on the "expertise" of the private sector, but the private sector did not innovate (or include existing best practices) beyond what the City had requested in the RFP. All part of keeping the project "on budget" because the Province and Feds short-changed us.
Why would a company choose to operate like that? It has to be bad for business. This is just as much of an embarrassment for all the companies involved with RTG as it is for the city. What city is going to want to hire them for a project like this ever again?
     
     
  #15922  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2023, 7:27 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Originally Posted by Fading Isle View Post
Why would a company choose to operate like that? It has to be bad for business. This is just as much of an embarrassment for all the companies involved with RTG as it is for the city. What city is going to want to hire them for a project like this ever again?
I don't understand your comment. The City of Ottawa used extraordinary measures (though all within the confines of the RFP process, of course) to ensure that SNC-Lavalin was hired for the Stage 2 extension of the Trillium Line. Surely that would indicate that the companies of Stage 1 are still in great demand.
     
     
  #15923  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2023, 8:00 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
"Storm cars" is supposed to be part of the deal, but I'm not sure if they actually implement it.

As for the anti-freeze and every other TTC practice, it seems it wasn't in the Project Agreement. As I said earlier, the City went with P3 in part to rely on the "expertise" of the private sector, but the private sector did not innovate (or include existing best practices) beyond what the City had requested in the RFP. All part of keeping the project "on budget" because the Province and Feds short-changed us.
Good grief! So, we will continue to use the P3 contract as an excuse to not fix the problems with the system. We are doomed for the next 30 years.
     
     
  #15924  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2023, 8:03 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
I don't understand your comment. The City of Ottawa used extraordinary measures (though all within the confines of the RFP process, of course) to ensure that SNC-Lavalin was hired for the Stage 2 extension of the Trillium Line. Surely that would indicate that the companies of Stage 1 are still in great demand.
Of course, we signed up SNC-Lavalin for Stage 2 before Phase 1 was in operation. Remember, a few city councillors questioned that wisdom.
     
     
  #15925  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2023, 8:51 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fading Isle View Post
Why would a company choose to operate like that? It has to be bad for business. This is just as much of an embarrassment for all the companies involved with RTG as it is for the city. What city is going to want to hire them for a project like this ever again?
Well, they did choose to operate like that. Omitting important innovation and best practices is what ensured that the bid was on budget. And we all know that the only qualification that counts in this City is the lowest bid.

Richard Eade and lrt's friend already answered the second part of your post.
     
     
  #15926  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2023, 10:09 PM
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Efforts to fix LRT damaged it further, work expected into the weekend
No trains running between Tremblay and uOttawa, no specific time for full service

CBC News
Posted: Jan 06, 2023 7:21 AM ET | Last Updated: 1 hour ago




Workers trying to fix the overhead power system for Ottawa's light rail line broke another wire Friday morning, and the city now expects that work to remove ice and restore full service in a closed section of the line will last into the weekend.

Confederation Line trains are running on two loops: four trains between Blair and Tremblay stations for a train every five or six minutes and two between Tunney's Pasture and uOttawa stations for 15 minutes between trains.

R1 bus service remains in place between St-Laurent and Rideau stations.

There's no set time for full service to be restored.

Memos from the city and a Friday afternoon news conference that included the CEO of the track maintenance group give a picture of a cascading set of problems.

A freezing rain warning Wednesday night saw ice begin to fall by 10 p.m. at the international airport, according to Environment Canada.

Video tweeted just after 11 p.m. showed bright flashes and sparks around the system near Hurdman station, which the city said can happen in challenging weather and aren't necessarily a safety risk.

Two trains stopped around 11:45 p.m. Wednesday between Lees and Hurdman stations, which transit services general manager Renée Amilcar said at the time was because of ice buildup on the power system.

Rideau Transit Maintenance CEO Mario Guerra said when the trains stopped, more ice built up on the equipment to the point trains couldn't get through. A train that crews were trying to move from the Lees station area to a maintenance facility damaged a wire on Thursday.

Friday morning, OC Transpo said overhead wires near Lees station had been repaired and work was being done to move the two out-of-service trains near that station.

Then, in a memo around noon, Amilcar said there had been a setback.

"[Rideau Transit Maintenance (RTM)] sent a train to this area with a special attachment called a winter carbon strip to remove ice from the [overhead] wire … That solution was unsuccessful to remove the ice buildup and caused further damage to a short section of [the wire] which will require repairs," she wrote.

Amilcar didn't know when the section could reopen to trains, but wrote that "we anticipate this will continue into the weekend."

Guerra said Friday they'd have a better idea of how ice removal was going and what the timeline might be around 4 p.m.

Ice is being removed manually by workers in bucket trucks, he said. Then the power system has to be repaired, then they have to move the two stopped trains, and then they have to test the system to make sure trains can safely run.

There was also a power outage that lasted less than half an hour between Blair and Tremblay stations just after midnight Thursday which led to a stopped train near Tremblay and ice to form on the eastern section of the rail.

Ice had been successfully cleared from that part of the line overnight Thursday into Friday, Amilcar had said.

Stittsville Coun. Glen Gower, chair of the city's transit commission, said Thursday once the problem is solved the next steps will be figuring out why it happened and stopping a repeat.

"We're certainly not the only city that gets freezing rain or that has rail that runs on wires. This is a very common system. So are we maintaining it and do we have processes and procedures that are similar to what other cities do? And if we don't, what needs to be changed?" he said.

Guerra said transit riders can expect the system to be better prepared in the future to move trains in icy conditions to try to avoid similar buildup.

With files from Joseph Tunney

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/oc-transpo-ottawa-lrt-confederation-ice-closure-1.6705537
     
     
  #15927  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2023, 7:09 AM
Magyk130 Magyk130 is offline
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Hopefully they get this figured out before Jan 16th with the public servants RTO mandate. They will end up in a pattern of driving to work instead of using transit if it's a mess.
     
     
  #15928  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2023, 4:43 PM
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Hopefully they get this figured out before Jan 16th with the public servants RTO mandate. They will end up in a pattern of driving to work instead of using transit if it's a mess.
Yes, I hope so too. Welcome to the forum!
     
     
  #15929  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2023, 5:25 PM
SidetrackedSue SidetrackedSue is offline
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By my count a second train has caused a second break in the line, leading to 4 trains now stopped on the line.

On r/Ottawa it was sarcastically mentioned that RTM is building a walking path, by combining stalled trains one after the other, between the stations. People will simply walk through one train after another after another. That way, they can claim people are taking the train to get to their destination.

I think RTM may have missed the /s on that post.

https://twitter.com/OC_Transpo/status/1611736468996919296
     
     
  #15930  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2023, 6:16 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Why is the overhead wiring so fragile? This is incredible. And of course, on the busiest part of the line between UOttawa and Hurdman. I took the Confed Line just before the initial failure on Wednesday evening. I will not be going downtown again until we have reliably functioning trains again. Just like I refuse to use R2, I will do likewise with R1.

Imagine these problems after Stage 2 opens. Much more wiring that can fail and even fewer buses to service rail gaps. We know this happens in other cities but to this degree? And I am sure they have better emergency plans to address gaps in rail service.

Yesterday, it was reported that one lady had to take 5 transit vehicles to reach her destination. This is not sustainable and will never encourage increased ridership.

I have argued repeatedly, that we need to offer more alternate bus routes that cross the city that offer more redundancy and less absolute dependence on a single rail line. But now we also have a bus driver shortage as well.

Last edited by lrt's friend; Jan 7, 2023 at 6:30 PM.
     
     
  #15931  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2023, 9:29 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I have argued repeatedly, that we need to offer more alternate bus routes that cross the city that offer more redundancy and less absolute dependence on a single rail line. But now we also have a bus driver shortage as well.
And take a wild guess whose bus service would get cannibalized for the purpose of re-allocating resources to these crosstown, suburb-to-suburb services?
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  #15932  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2023, 9:38 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
And take a wild guess whose bus service would get cannibalized for the purpose of re-allocating resources to these crosstown, suburb-to-suburb services?
Get your bike tuned up.
     
     
  #15933  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2023, 11:06 PM
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More damage, another immobilized train: Transit chair calls latest LRT woes 'frustrating'
For now, the light-rail service is running in two loops: from Tunney's Pasture to uOttawa in the west and from St. Laurent to Tremblay in the east.

Elizabeth Payne, Ottawa Citizen
Published Jan 07, 2023 • 3 minute read




The latest problems with the LRT represent a big setback in regaining public trust in the troubled system, Stittsville Coun. Glen Gower, the new chair of Ottawa’s Transit Commission, said Saturday.

“It is frustrating. After going through what we have over the past three years with the LRT, it really seemed like we had turned a corner and that the worst was behind us.”

He made the comments after there was more bad news Saturday about efforts to restore full services to the LRT just days after an ice storm caused damage to overhead lines, immobilizing trains near Lees Station, near the middle of the Confederation Line.

A second train sent at low speed to tow away one of several immobilized trains near Lees Station caused additional damage to the overhead lines and got stuck. It became the fourth train stuck in the area.

That attempt came after crews working overnight Friday successfully removed accumulated ice from the overhead catenary service (OCS).

In a series of tweets, OC Transpo warned that work could take time.

Gower called it a significant outage.

“It is a setback in terms of everyone’s confidence and everyone’s trust in the system. We are going to have to work harder to make sure it is reliable.”

He noted that light-rail trains operated around the world in areas that occasionally experience freezing rain.

“Freezing rain is not something that should take a system down.”

Saturday’s attempt was the second time a new train had entered that section and caused additional damage to the OCS, transit general manager Renée Amilcar said Saturday morning.

Amilcar, who took over as head of city transit services in 2021, said Rideau Transit Maintenance began conducting “a thorough inspection of that entire section of the OCS before further attempts are made to move any trains in and out of that area.”

She said OC Transpo was bringing in external oversight to “closely monitor” RTM’s work and “provide independent advice to OC Transpo and confirm that we have a solid plan to return services to this area.”

Once the inspection is complete, repairs to any damaged sections of the overhead lines will have to be completed “before any recovery attempts recommence.”

She did not provide a timeline for a return to full service.

For now, the light-rail service is running in two loops: from Tunney’s Pasture to uOttawa in the west and from St. Laurent to Tremblay in the east. R1 bus services is operating between St. Laurent and Rideau stations.

“I appreciate the ongoing patience of our customers as we work to return to normal services,” Amilcar wrote.

The LRT’s poor winter performance was one of the issues addressed during the provincial public inquiry into the construction, operation and maintenance of the Confederation Line.

In his report, released Nov. 30, Justice William Hourigan said the train should have been tested in real-world winter weather conditions and not just in lab simulations, as was done for Ottawa’s system.

The chaos caused by this week’s ice storm caught OC Transpo off-guard.

The ice buildup wasn’t as bad on the east and west sections because trains were still operating on those portions and regularly knocked ice off the power lines, said Mario Guerra, CEO of Rideau Transit Maintenance Group.

That wasn’t the case along sections of the track where the trains were stopped.

To prevent a reoccurrence, “We need to improve our ability to retrieve vehicles,” Guerra said.

With files from Megan Gillis







https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-to-restore-ice-damaged-lrt-hit-new-snag
     
     
  #15934  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2023, 11:29 PM
swimmer_spe swimmer_spe is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
More damage, another immobilized train: Transit chair calls latest LRT woes 'frustrating'
For now, the light-rail service is running in two loops: from Tunney's Pasture to uOttawa in the west and from St. Laurent to Tremblay in the east.

Elizabeth Payne, Ottawa Citizen
Published Jan 07, 2023 • 3 minute read











https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-to-restore-ice-damaged-lrt-hit-new-snag

If the city is committed to fixing the LRT like they say, all city councilors and senior managers should be forced to only use it to get to/from work.
     
     
  #15935  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2023, 12:46 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Substandard materials and installation to save money?
     
     
  #15936  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2023, 12:35 PM
PHrenetic PHrenetic is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Substandard materials and installation to save money?
Bad Day.

Just about my guess too. Not that it needs to be substandard per se, but that it is too lightweight and fragile for these conditions.
We needed heavyweight, solid cat for an ice event, let alone an ice storm (and IMHO this was NOT an ice STORM). And yup, definitely cost-saving in effect.

But then, what do we know - we're not the 'experts'. We just have to use it. <snort>

And we also now see the effect of using other LRVs as hustlers to move disabled trains. Where are the proper hustlers we were supposed to have to move trains around ? Oh, Yeah, more cost-saving !

NoJoy!
     
     
  #15937  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2023, 11:54 PM
Magyk130 Magyk130 is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Yes, I hope so too. Welcome to the forum!
Thanks!

Looks like it will probably still be down Monday
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/sustained-r1-s...ns-as-lrt-disruption-continues-1.6221607
     
     
  #15938  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2023, 1:44 AM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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Walked between Lees and Hurdman around 6PM, nobody doing anything. One dead train sitting in the darkness. I mean, what's the rush, right?
     
     
  #15939  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2023, 3:40 AM
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11a2b3 11a2b3 is offline
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Substandard materials and installation to save money?
Its the Ottawa way
     
     
  #15940  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2023, 3:57 AM
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LRT service won't be fully restored until at least Tuesday
Following more damage and immobilized trains, transit chair calls latest LRT woes 'frustrating'

Elizabeth Payne, Ottawa Citizen
Published Jan 08, 2023 • 4 minute read




Weekend efforts to restore full service to the city’s LRT system in time for Monday’s return to work and school failed.

On Sunday evening, officials from the city and from Rideau Transit Management held a news conference to confirm that the light rail system would not be fully operational until at least Tuesday. Some trains have been disabled since the ice storm that hit the city overnight Wednesday and Thursday damaged overhead lines.

“I appreciate these past few days have been difficult for you and restoring full Line 1 services has taken longer than expected,” said OC Transpo general manager Renee Amilcar, speaking directly to transit users. “We are doing everything we can to provide you with the best possible service under these challenging conditions.”

She said the full service would only reopen “when it is safe to do so”.

On Monday, the light rail system will continue to run in two loops — one in the west from Tunney’s Pasture to uOttawa and one in the east from Blair to St. Laurent. Those trains will run every five minutes, Amilcar said. In addition, R1 bus service will run between Blair and Rideau stations. Officials said they expect the R1 service to operate every 10 minutes, but noted that running R1 at that frequency could “put pressure on other areas of the bus system”.

The partial stoppage during an ice storm is just the latest in a long line of problems for the LRT system, which opened to fanfare in 2019. Last November, Justice William Hourigan issued a scathing final report after the Ottawa Light Rail Transit Inquiry, in which he said the public was deliberately misled about problems with the system while under construction and it was rushed into service.

The latest problems started Wednesday overnight when, first, an eastbound train stopped between Lees and Hurdman stations and then a westbound train stopped in the same area a short time later. Efforts to tow disabled trains resulted in further damage to the overhead cantenary system and two more trains being stuck on the tracks in the area around Lees and Hurdman stations.

As of Sunday night, two trains had been towed off Track 1. Overnight Sunday and Monday, workers were manually clearing ice and making repairs on the wires on Track 2. The two remaining disabled trains cannot be moved until those repairs are made, said Mario Guerra, CEO and acting general manager of Rideau Transit Maintenance.

He said full services would not be restored until at least Tuesday “if we are as successful with Track 2 as we were with Track 1 (Sunday).”

Guerra said the freezing rain “probably caught us a bit by surprise — how quickly it happened”, but he said he doesn’t believe there are any issues with the system.

Experts from the city, RTM and light rail manufacturer Alstom will meet Monday to determine whether the overhead cantenary system is safe and will then discuss what lessons have been learned. That includes whether de-icing or technology could be used in advance to prevent any future stoppages during freezing rain.

OC Transpo said the R1 bus service will not service the Cyrville station. Customers are asked to transfer at St. Laurent or Blair stations. Officials said they would monitor passenger demand and adjust where possible.

OC Transpo will have representatives at stations to direct transit riders and answer questions. Updates will be available on its website octranspo.com and information is available at 613-560-5000.

The situation has frustrated Stittsville Coun. Glen Glower, the city’s new transit commission chair, who said Saturday it would take time to regain the public’s trust in the system.

“It is frustrating. After going through what we have over the past three years with the LRT, it really seemed like we had turned a corner and that the worst was behind us,” Gower said in an interview Saturday.

“It is a setback in terms of everyone’s confidence and everyone’s trust in the system. We are going to have to work harder to make sure it is reliable.”

He noted that light-rail trains operated around the world in areas that occasionally experience freezing rain.

“Freezing rain is not something that should take a system down.”

Amilcar, who took over as head of city transit services in 2021, said OC Transpo was bringing in external oversight to “closely monitor” RTM’s work and “provide independent advice to OC Transpo and confirm that we have a solid plan to return services to this area.”

The LRT’s poor winter performance was one of the issues addressed during the provincial public inquiry into the construction, operation and maintenance of the Confederation Line.

In his report, released Nov. 30, Hourigan said the train should have been tested in real-world winter weather conditions and not just in lab simulations, as was done for Ottawa’s system.

The chaos caused by last week’s ice storm caught OC Transpo off-guard.

The ice buildup wasn’t as bad on the east and west sections because trains were still operating on those portions and regularly knocked ice off the power lines, said Guerra.

That wasn’t the case along sections of the track where the trains were stopped.

To prevent a reoccurrence, “We need to improve our ability to retrieve vehicles,” Guerra said.

With files from Megan Gillis

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-to-restore-ice-damaged-lrt-hit-new-snag
     
     
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