YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[nname]

Looks like SQ YVR-SIN is now full-fare only on and after October. I guess SQ is ending the route after China opens?

CX YVR-HKG will increase to 11x weekly starting November.

[trofirhen]

Sad to hear that SQ will be dropping YVR if it is as you say. Singapore was one of the "crown jewel" destinations, or so it seemed.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by nname

Looks like SQ YVR-SIN is now full-fare only on and after October. I guess SQ is ending the route after China opens?

Sorry, but what does "full-fare" mean ?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

Looks like SQ YVR-SIN is now full-fare only on and after October. I guess SQ is ending the route after China opens?

CX YVR-HKG will increase to 11x weekly starting November.

They did this last time before extending to year-round. Who knows.
My flight on Tuesday was just so good - such excellent service! Packed flight J was 42/42 not sure about the rest of the plane but seemed 100% full. But it is peak season.
Would be a shame if it is pulled SQ is the best airline.

Watch routes to China explode shortly. Already starting in MEL and SYD.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by nname

Looks like SQ YVR-SIN is now full-fare only on and after October. I guess SQ is ending the route after China opens?

Hopefully not. Last month SQ and Thai Airways announced an expanded partnership, including TG putting their codeshare on SQ's flights to Vancouver. From the Thai Airways announcement:

"THAI will also codeshare on SIA’s flight services to Cape Town and Johannesburg in South Africa; Houston, Los Angeles, New York (John F. Kennedy International Airport and Newark Liberty International Airport), San Francisco, and Seattle in the United States of America; as well as Vancouver in Canada, by the first quarter of 2023, subject to regulatory approval."

It seems a bit strange they would make that announcement if SQ was planning to end service so soon. But maybe it's just me being overly optimistic.

[hehehe]

There are just so many Chinese airlines and they usually provide such cheap fares, it’s just too difficult to compete with them. Maybe SQ stays though. the plane looks amazing at YVR. Always nice to arrive into YVR in the morning and see AI and SQ lined up. SEA-SIN prices seem to be unchanged.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

Looks like SQ YVR-SIN is now full-fare only on and after October. I guess SQ is ending the route after China opens?

CX YVR-HKG will increase to 11x weekly starting November.

Shouldn't come as a surprise. This was always a very likely scenario. This being said, China is still restricting the number of international flights, and we don’t know when that will end.

So maybe this isn’t linked to China after all. Could very well be that even with China closed off, the route was performing badly.

SQ announced YVR in October 2021 and started shortly thereafter. If the cut is indeed true, then they will end the route in October 2023. That’s ~ 2 years. Hmm…..route subsidy ending perhaps.

Either way, the way SQ was operating YVR and waiting very late in a season before extending the route to the next one was kind of odd. Didn’t show signs of confidence in the route. Plus the route is only 3x weekly, when we know full well SQ can fly daily to Canada if they wanted to.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

So maybe this isn’t linked to China after all. Could very well be that even with China closed off, the route was performing badly.

Well, SQ made the change about a week after China announced reopening, so it's definitely related.

I don't think SQ never intended for the route to stay long term. As I mentioned earlier, SQ route all the traffic from YYC/YEG/YYZ/YUL through SEA/LAX instead of YVR... so the YVR flight are mostly with YVR O&D unless you buy interline ticket with AC. And even that, YVR gets as much service as SEA even without the feed.

I guess SQ just don't want to compete with the Chinese airlines, which will have much much more service from YVR than SEA.

Maybe after SQ build up O&D with the nonstop service from YVR, AC would jump into the route for W23 with feed from other Canadian cities? After all, it was on AC's plan for a while now. Not sure if this means the end of BKK though.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Watch routes to China explode shortly. Already starting in MEL and SYD.

If the Canadian government allows, that is. If approved, each route to PEK/PVG/CAN will get probably to at least 1x daily by the start of S23, and may be back to pre-pandemic level by June or July.

Looking at those US application, the Chinese airlines are already planning for daily service for some route as soon as next week or the week after that.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by nname

Well, SQ made the change about a week after China announced reopening, so it's definitely related.

I don't think SQ never intended for the route to stay long term. As I mentioned earlier, SQ route all the traffic from YYC/YEG/YYZ/YUL through SEA/LAX instead of YVR... so the YVR flight are mostly with YVR O&D unless you buy interline ticket with AC. And even that, YVR gets as much service as SEA even without the feed.

I guess SQ just don't want to compete with the Chinese airlines, which will have much much more service from YVR than SEA.

Maybe after SQ build up O&D with the nonstop service from YVR, AC would jump into the route for W23 with feed from other Canadian cities? After all, it was on AC's plan for a while now. Not sure if this means the end of BKK though.

God the pre covid China flights from YVR made my head spin...no matter how well SQ is doing it's very hard for anyone to compete with so many Chinese airlines who undercut on price.

[hehehe]

By the way I think WS is cancelling YVR-YYF and not launching it at all? Doesn't appear bookable. Not really a big deal

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by nname

If the Canadian government allows, that is.

It won’t happen overnight, that’s a fact. And not until AC gets similar access back to PEK, PVG and HKG.

Looking at those US application, the Chinese airlines are already planning for daily service for some route as soon as next week or the week after that.

The US DOT is unlikely to grant these requests until the Chinese regulator allows US airlines to similarly ramp up their flight schedules. This will all take time.

Australia is a — nation. They spread their legs to China at the first chance they get. This side of the Pacific, things work a bit differently.

https://airlineweekly.com/2023/01/geopol...-s-china-flights-as-demand-surges/?amp=1

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

It won’t happen overnight, that’s a fact. And not until AC gets similar access back to PEK, PVG and HKG.

The US DOT is unlikely to grant these requests until the Chinese regulator allows US airlines to similarly ramp up their flight schedules. This will all take time.

AC should already got access starting next week, up to whatever they operated S19 plus newly approved service to CAN for the summer. Just that AC is unlikely to find that many planes for the service for the next while, until at least W23 or S24...

Canada imposed 6x weekly restriction that Chinese airlines when AC was denied frequency. When MU and CZ add additional flight to YVR/YYZ starting Jan 23, this means there's no longer a restriction for AC.

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

The US DOT is unlikely to grant these requests until the Chinese regulator allows US airlines to similarly ramp up their flight schedules. This will all take time.

Officially foreign airline are allowed to operate 75% of the bilateral capacity starting next week, and 100% by the start of S23 season. Just that no foreign airline would have that many planes doing nothing and waiting to fly to China.

Not sure if US will retaliate with the restrictions imposed on the Chinese side for the past 2 years though.

[thenoflyzone]

^ not to mention demand will take time to rebound to 2019 levels as well. A lot of people aren’t too eager to travel to China right now. Plus the US, Canada and others have imposed negative COVID test requirements for inbound flights from China.

Chinese carriers are limited to 76 weekly flights to Canada. That’s a bit less than 11 daily flights. Let’s see how quickly they use up all of them.

[zahav]

It's too early to say whether SQ is out or not, because this is what they did twice already since resuming service here. There was a time when any service in 2023 was questionable, and they ended up loading it. And SEA was already loaded then as well, so pretty much same thing now as it was in 2022, just a question mark. Definitely not a certainty they are cutting it.

[whatnext]

From BIV:

A BC Supreme Court justice has ordered China Southern Airlines (CSA) to pay a former manager $208,000 in damages, and scolded the way the Chinese government-controlled company behaved in legal proceedings.

Paul Chu sued the Guanghzhou-based company in September 2019 for wrongful dismissal after working for the airline from 2008 to 2018.….

https://biv.com/article/2023/01/bc-judge...ntrolled-airline-wrongful-dismissal-suit

[officedweller]

Proposed consolidated flight paths for YVR Airport would fly over 61,000 fewer people
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve...tandalone_content_recirculation_with_ads

[Klazu]

Great read about flight paths. This part had me rolling my eyes, though:

"In 2019, YVR received a total of 2,546 noise complaints from 239 residents across Metro Vancouver, including 1,638 concerns (64%) from just three individuals — two residents in Richmond within seven km from the airport, and one resident in Surrey about 31 km away."

[nname]

3U is increasing YVR-CTU to 3x weekly starting Feb 1.

The new 2x weekly flight will be red-eye from YVR departing 11:40pm.

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Proposed consolidated flight paths for YVR Airport would fly over 61,000 fewer people
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouve...tandalone_content_recirculation_with_ads

Consolidation would dictate fewer people beneath flight paths. It also means 'concentration.' So, compared to today, a smaller number of people will endure all of the traffic. I wonder what number that is? It's a bad argument for the airport to pursue: better stick to improvements and efficiencies in operations.

Regardless, the airport has preexisted much of the region's residential development. If the impacts are too much for anyone, moving is the only solution for you. Complaining is a bit childish. I have never lived under a flight path until recently. I like seeing the planes so low, and am amazed at how quiet they are. It would almost seem that the larger the plane the quieter. I could not handle being in Richmond where everything gets much closer and louder. For the east side, I think being closer than No. 5 Road would be intolerable.