Highways in Canada

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Surprisingly to me, online route planners actually do say that the QC-117 routing is the fastest all-Canadian route between Western Canada and the Maritimes.

I've driven both QC-117, and the ON-17 an ON-11 routes quite a bit, and most cross-Canada traffic still seems to take one of the Ontario routes.

I've driven all of those a lot for obvious reasons. Most cross-country traffic will stick to the Ontario routes for sure. BUT, a LOT of Quebecers will go through Timmins when heading to Western Canada. I see SO many vehicles from Quebec between Timmins and Wawa every time I'm on Hwy 101. I'm guessing that they choose the route because Timmins has much more to offer than places like Cochrane, Kapuskasing and Hearst and is withing a day's drive of Thunder Bay. Plus the route is more scenic along Lake Superior and you don't have all of the crazy transport trucks that Hwy 11 has.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In terms of Ontario and Quebec, I think that one factor is probably that they had burgeoning intercity highway systems before the TCH project began. But in much of Canada, decent intercity highway linkages to the rest of the world (even if only two lanes) often "arrived" with the TCH project. This was arguably also true for certain parts of Ontario and Quebec too, but obviously not enough to affect the overall mindset in these provinces with respect to the highways.

You also have the fact that the TCH on an everyday level is pretty much out of sight and out of mind for the huge population share of Ontario (and even Canada) that lives in southern Ontario.

In my area it is very rare to hear anybody refer to Hwy 11 as being Trans-Canada. Even along Hwy 17 which is the main route of the TCH, most people just call it Hwy 17. For Ontario, I think it has to do with our highway numbering system being quite old and having existed well before the Trans-Canada network was established. Plus, having quite a few highways being part of the TCH does not make it easy so referring to highway numbers is just easier.

Trans-Canada highway map

Link: https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-services/policies/trans-canada-highway-map

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

In my area it is very rare to hear anybody refer to Hwy 11 as being Trans-Canada. Even along Hwy 17 which is the main route of the TCH, most people just call it Hwy 17. For Ontario, I think it has to do with our highway numbering system being quite old and having existed well before the Trans-Canada network was established. Plus, having quite a few highways being part of the TCH does not make it easy so referring to highway numbers is just easier.

East of the MB/ON border, no one does. Hence my question of usefulness.

[acottawa]

No sensible person in Southern Ontario or a Southern Quebec is going to travel to Western Canada along any Canadian route (google doesn’t even have a Canadian option if you plug in Toronto or Montreal and Vancouver), so the trans-canada as a transportation route makes no sense to people from these provinces.

[Vantage]

Originally Posted by acottawa

No sensible person in Southern Ontario or a Southern Quebec is going to travel to Western Canada along any Canadian route (google doesn’t even have a Canadian option if you plug in Toronto or Montreal and Vancouver), so the trans-canada as a transportation route makes no sense to people from these provinces.

Anecdotal, but I've driven from Vancouver to Toronto and back VIA the TCH thrice.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

But this still begs the question - what is the point of a TCH designation?

As I previously mentioned, the route would literally be crossing Canada, only this time it would be a north-south orientation. It's a different approach from the conventional thought of "crossing Canada" being east-west, and is unique in that it would be end-capped by international border crossings as opposed to an ocean.

Originally Posted by acottawa

No sensible person in Southern Ontario or a Southern Quebec is going to travel to Western Canada along any Canadian route (google doesn’t even have a Canadian option if you plug in Toronto or Montreal and Vancouver), so the trans-canada as a transportation route makes no sense to people from these provinces.

....until international politics affect that Toronto or Montreal roadtrip to Vancouver. We just came through a time where the border was closed/restricted due to the pandemic. The border was also closed for a time after 9/11. There's probably a myriad of other scenarios where you might not want to deal with crossing the border.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

As I previously mentioned, the route would literally be crossing Canada, only this time it would be a north-south orientation. It's a different approach from the conventional thought of "crossing Canada" being east-west, and is unique in that it would be end-capped by international border crossings as opposed to an ocean.



....until international politics affect that Toronto or Montreal roadtrip to Vancouver. We just came through a time where the border was closed/restricted due to the pandemic. The border was also closed for a time after 9/11. There's probably a myriad of other scenarios where you might not want to deal with crossing the border.

Also, as a visible-minority person, after having heard all the stories about police brutality in the states, I’m definitely thinking twice before going through the states. (I simply don’t trust American cops.) That said, I’m making all trips to western Canada via TCH for the foreseeable future.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

East of the MB/ON border, no one does. Hence my question of usefulness.

The Trans Canada Highway is very definitely the Trans Canada Highway in the Maritimes and Newfoundland.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, it is only in ON and QC that the TCH designation is a irrelevancy.

[GreaterMontréal]

Nobody in Quebec will say, ''let's take the TC highway''. If you live on the South shore of the fleuve Saint-Laurent you take the A-20, and the A-40 if you live on the North shore.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I've driven all of those a lot for obvious reasons. Most cross-country traffic will stick to the Ontario routes for sure. BUT, a LOT of Quebecers will go through Timmins when heading to Western Canada. I see SO many vehicles from Quebec between Timmins and Wawa every time I'm on Hwy 101. I'm guessing that they choose the route because Timmins has much more to offer than places like Cochrane, Kapuskasing and Hearst and is withing a day's drive of Thunder Bay. Plus the route is more scenic along Lake Superior and you don't have all of the crazy transport trucks that Hwy 11 has.

That's interesting. I never would have thought about taking the Timmins-Chapleau-Wawa route to go to Western Canada.

I have noticed that there are quite a few Quebec plates in Timmins, though I always attributed that to the fact that many francophones in NE Ontario have family ties in NW Quebec and beyond.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

No sensible person in Southern Ontario or a Southern Quebec is going to travel to Western Canada along any Canadian route (google doesn’t even have a Canadian option if you plug in Toronto or Montreal and Vancouver), so the trans-canada as a transportation route makes no sense to people from these provinces.

At one point it was a vital transportation improvement project and link, and still can be regionally or at times due to various factors, but increasingly it is becoming a symbolic, even touristy thing. Kinda like Route 66 in the US.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The Trans Canada Highway is very definitely the Trans Canada Highway in the Maritimes and Newfoundland. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, it is only in ON and QC that the TCH designation is a irrelevancy.

Can confirm. Everyone I know in NB refers to the NS->Q highway as "The Trans-Canada". Never the "1" or the "2".

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Loco101

In my area it is very rare to hear anybody refer to Hwy 11 as being Trans-Canada. Even along Hwy 17 which is the main route of the TCH, most people just call it Hwy 17. For Ontario, I think it has to do with our highway numbering system being quite old and having existed well before the Trans-Canada network was established. Plus, having quite a few highways being part of the TCH does not make it easy so referring to highway numbers is just easier.

Trans-Canada highway map

Link: https://tc.canada.ca/en/corporate-services/policies/trans-canada-highway-map

Here is the "National Highway System" map:



If I had my druthers, I would make all the green highways on the latter map part of the TCH system. This would include the Alaska Highway and more intercity routes in BC, the Prairies, southern ON and the Maritimes. I would set minimum standards for the system in terms of quality and maintenance, and number the routes appropriately, including standardized signage.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If I had my druthers, I would make all the green highways on the latter map part of the TCH system. This would include the Alaska Highway and more intercity routes in BC, the Prairies, southern ON and the Maritimes. I would set minimum standards for the system in terms of quality and maintenance, and number the routes appropriately, including standardized signage.

Yeah, either make the TCH 'the' national highway system that goes to important places with a mandate to provide federal funding for upkeep and enforce road standards, or just scrap it altogether. As it is right now, it's just a historical route to nerd out over.

If we want to resurrect the 1949 spirit of the original TCH, we may want to begin planning an all weather road to one of our Arctic Ocean ports, or along the Mackenzie River. But that's not really the kind of thinking Canada really engages in anymore.

[Acajack]

The National Highway System (NHS) actually is a real thing, designated by the feds via negotiations with the provinces.

Having a highway designated as NHS means it has a pretty good chance of getting federal money for construction and improvements.

For any other highways the provinces are generally on their own money-wise.

But there is very little federal coordination of the NHS beyond what I just described, and Canada doesn't really have a national highway program. We may be the only OECD country that does not.

It's all likely related to the fact that in the BNA Act, highways were made a provincial responsibility.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

As I previously mentioned, the route would literally be crossing Canada, only this time it would be a north-south orientation. It's a different approach from the conventional thought of "crossing Canada" being east-west, and is unique in that it would be end-capped by international border crossings as opposed to an ocean.

Pretend I am a Gen x or Alpha (I am not.) who has never seen a paper map. They are going to put their destination into Google maps or some other map app and follow what it says. The app may say it is a TCH, but the driver won't care. When the cars become driverless, it will matter even less. If the TCH were like the US routes or the Interstates, then I could see the TCH label as meaning something.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The Trans Canada Highway is very definitely the Trans Canada Highway in the Maritimes and Newfoundland.

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, it is only in ON and QC that the TCH designation is a irrelevancy.

When I was in NS, I never heard anyone say to take the TCH to Moncton. It was always the 102 to the 104.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Here is the "National Highway System" map:



If I had my druthers, I would make all the green highways on the latter map part of the TCH system. This would include the Alaska Highway and more intercity routes in BC, the Prairies, southern ON and the Maritimes. I would set minimum standards for the system in terms of quality and maintenance, and number the routes appropriately, including standardized signage.

Again, we can, but unless there is something special, like how the Interstats, or the US routes are, the label is meaningless. Using that map, I took the 144 to the TCH to the TCH to the 400 to the 407 to the TCH to get where i am right now. What I did was take the 144 to 17 to 69 to 400 to 407 to 401. Even in BC, between Calgary, you take the TCH to 5 to TCH to Vancouver.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

If we want to resurrect the 1949 spirit of the original TCH, we may want to begin planning an all weather road to one of our Arctic Ocean ports, or along the Mackenzie River. But that's not really the kind of thinking Canada really engages in anymore.

Or that highway and bridge connection to Newfoundland talked about some time back in this thread.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Pretend I am a Gen x or Alpha (I am not.) who has never seen a paper map. They are going to put their destination into Google maps or some other map app and follow what it says. The app may say it is a TCH, but the driver won't care. When the cars become driverless, it will matter even less. If the TCH were like the US routes or the Interstates, then I could see the TCH label as meaning something.



When I was in NS, I never heard anyone say to take the TCH to Moncton. It was always the 102 to the 104.



Again, we can, but unless there is something special, like how the Interstats, or the US routes are, the label is meaningless. Using that map, I took the 144 to the TCH to the TCH to the 400 to the 407 to the TCH to get where i am right now. What I did was take the 144 to 17 to 69 to 400 to 407 to 401. Even in BC, between Calgary, you take the TCH to 5 to TCH to Vancouver.

Hwy 144 is always fun to drive in the Summer. In the Winter it's pretty scary. I am impressed with the section between the Watershed and Gogama that's being redone with so much blasting of the rock cuts. The new Côté Gold mine is the main reason it is being done as there is increased traffic.

Another interesting fact is that Hwy 129 up to Hwy 101 then West along Hwy 101 to Wawa was part of the Trans-Canada network for a short time known as the Chapleau Route. The section of Hwy 129 in the Missisagi Valley along the Mississagi River is one of the most scenic drives in the province.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Hwy 144 is always fun to drive in the Summer. In the Winter it's pretty scary. I am impressed with the section between the Watershed and Gogama that's being redone with so much blasting of the rock cuts. The new Côté Gold mine is the main reason it is being done as there is increased traffic.

Another interesting fact is that Hwy 129 up to Hwy 101 then West along Hwy 101 to Wawa was part of the Trans-Canada network for a short time known as the Chapleau Route. The section of Hwy 129 in the Missisagi Valley along the Mississagi River is one of the most scenic drives in the province.

A snow fall happens and the 144 is closed at least once.

129 is a wonderful motorcycle ride.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The section of Hwy 129 in the Missisagi Valley along the Mississagi River is one of the most scenic drives in the province.

We had a family cottage on a lake just off the more southerly portion of 129, and one summer we took a day trip to Aubrey Falls. I've not been farther north on that road, but even though it was decades ago and I was pretty young I remember how nice that route was.