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  #281  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 1:12 AM
postingaboutottawa postingaboutottawa is offline
 
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Do they build many bachelor apartments outside of Centretown?
Maybe less as a percentage of overall housing but in terms of total stock of course the rest of the city has more bachelor apartments. At any rate my comment was directed at the idea that people are choosing to live there because it is all they can afford which again makes no sense.
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  #282  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 2:25 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Do they build many bachelor apartments outside of Centretown?
I toured about five in various places, so yes they do. The point remains that people do want to live in Centretown and all of this FUD about being downtown seems a bit overblown.

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Originally Posted by lrt's friend
It doesn't matter, considering that the public part of downtown has always been between Bank Street and the ByWard Market. That is still quite a march between Bank and down the hill beyond Bronson. As we know, pedestrians get discouraged if there is much more than a block of nothing interesting.
Isn't there an LRT currently in operation that serves customers who don't want to make this walk? Or am I missing something?

As a former (and I guess future again) Centretown resident it's my anecdotal experience that I never visited the Central Library when it was downtown and didn't know anybody else who did, either. Perhaps the new build will be more appealing in general. I'm not sure how many people move around specifically to be close to libraries.
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  #283  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 4:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
I toured about five in various places, so yes they do. The point remains that people do want to live in Centretown and all of this FUD about being downtown seems a bit overblown.


Isn't there an LRT currently in operation that serves customers who don't want to make this walk? Or am I missing something?

As a former (and I guess future again) Centretown resident it's my anecdotal experience that I never visited the Central Library when it was downtown and didn't know anybody else who did, either. Perhaps the new build will be more appealing in general. I'm not sure how many people move around specifically to be close to libraries.
Not quite the same as walking a few blocks between the current location and most other important downtown destinations, right? Just like driving. Chances are if we have to drive to a Park n Ride lot, then there is a good chance, we will make the entire trip by car. If I have to get on transit at the library, chances are we will stay on transit and go home rather than making the effort of getting off and on transit again at the Rideau Centre. Maybe I am the only lazy person in this city, but my time is limited, and as we make things more inconvenient, then certain choices will be made, ie instead of going to both the library and the Rideau Centre, we will only go to one.

Regarding your comment on the Central library, maybe we should have simply closed it and saved the money. It sounds like it has little value.

Last edited by lrt's friend; Dec 20, 2022 at 4:48 AM.
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  #284  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 7:26 AM
Nowhere Nowhere is offline
 
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Originally Posted by postingaboutottawa View Post
Instead of a cheaper apartment outside of the core? That doesn't make any sense.
I'm looking for an apartment right now. The cheapest ones often seem to be downtown. So yes, there's definitively people living in downtown bachelors because that's what they can afford. The price of rentals seem to have been rising way faster in the suburbs than downtown lately. Maybe the Freedom Convoy scared some people away from living in Centertown.
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  #285  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 1:26 PM
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No doubt. I'm pretty optimistic that the pedestrian environment will get better. Even just the narrower road-bike lane-wider sidewalk configuration would be a massive improvement. I'm also thinking that amenities on the ground floor of Moon and the Lyon-Albert project will extend the busy part of downtown to the west. The planned hotel is at Bay and Albert, which is essentially three blocks from the library.
For sure, the western part of Downtown will transform significantly over the next 5 years. It used to be all but exclusively residential with little street activity and plenty of surface parking lots. With Occo Kitchen at the base of the old Albert Suites (now apartments), Moon and it's (hopefully) grocery store, the M+M/Rimap towers with ground floor retail and restaurants, the converted and rejuvenated Trebla building, it should make those few blocks far more interesting and help weave the CBD with the Library and greater LeBreton Flats.
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  #286  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 2:45 PM
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From the St, Laurent thread.

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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
Cyberdome, not Playdium. My memory isn't what it used to be
It had a rock climbing wall, VR, lasertag, etc. Very Playdium-like.
I wish we had something like that and a Cineplex rec room downtown. If the new owners of Place de Ville insist on keeping the podium building, I wish they would do something like that with it. Kick-out the Feds (if they haven't already left) and make the entire building a cinema surrounded by floors of entertainment.
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  #287  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
From the St, Laurent thread.



I wish we had something like that and a Cineplex rec room downtown. If the new owners of Place de Ville insist on keeping the podium building, I wish they would do something like that with it. Kick-out the Feds (if they haven't already left) and make the entire building a cinema surrounded by floors of entertainment.
How dare you suggest a region of 1.5 million people have a movie theatre in it's downtown core! Heresy!
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  #288  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 4:52 PM
postingaboutottawa postingaboutottawa is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Nowhere View Post
I'm looking for an apartment right now. The cheapest ones often seem to be downtown. So yes, there's definitively people living in downtown bachelors because that's what they can afford. The price of rentals seem to have been rising way faster in the suburbs than downtown lately. Maybe the Freedom Convoy scared some people away from living in Centertown.
North of Somerset? There is also a whole section of the city that is neither a suburb or downtown proper. I would personally look for a place in Centertown if I was looking for a place but I just find it hard to believe that suddenly price became the main factor driving people into shoebox apartments in a low rise multi unit in Centertown.
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  #289  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Nowhere View Post
I'm looking for an apartment right now. The cheapest ones often seem to be downtown. So yes, there's definitively people living in downtown bachelors because that's what they can afford. The price of rentals seem to have been rising way faster in the suburbs than downtown lately. Maybe the Freedom Convoy scared some people away from living in Centertown.
Since we're playing the anecdote game the cheapest apartments I saw were in Vanier, South Keys, and Barrhaven.

Can't say living with three roommates in a townhouse in Barrhaven sounds appealing, but whatever floats one's boat.

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Originally Posted by postingaboutottawa View Post
North of Somerset? There is also a whole section of the city that is neither a suburb or downtown proper. I would personally look for a place in Centertown if I was looking for a place but I just find it hard to believe that suddenly price became the main factor driving people into shoebox apartments in a low rise multi unit in Centertown.
I'm only moving into a shoebox because i'm on my own for a short-term rental, i'm sure others are in the same boat. For whatever reason many jobs in Ottawa really stress that people must physically be in the city and at the office to work, whereas most of my friends in Toronto are free to WFH as much as they like.

Centretown is appealing to me personally because I don't own a vehicle and want to live in a somewhat vibrant, walkable neighbourhood. I considered a place near Mooney's Bay but would have been a 10 minute busride to anything of interest and that's simply not that appealing. Really depends on what one is looking for. The LRT makes commuting around, if required, far more pleasant than the old Transitway-to-anywhere days, although something on a N/S route would be better to trundle down Bank on.
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  #290  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 5:43 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
 
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Since we're playing the anecdote game the cheapest apartments I saw were in Vanier, South Keys, and Barrhaven.

Can't say living with three roommates in a townhouse in Barrhaven sounds appealing, but whatever floats one's boat.


I'm only moving into a shoebox because i'm on my own for a short-term rental, i'm sure others are in the same boat. For whatever reason many jobs in Ottawa really stress that people must physically be in the city and at the office to work, whereas most of my friends in Toronto are free to WFH as much as they like.

Centretown is appealing to me personally because I don't own a vehicle and want to live in a somewhat vibrant, walkable neighbourhood. I considered a place near Mooney's Bay but would have been a 10 minute busride to anything of interest and that's simply not that appealing. Really depends on what one is looking for. The LRT makes commuting around, if required, far more pleasant than the old Transitway-to-anywhere days, although something on a N/S route would be better to trundle down Bank on.
More heresy. Why would we ever want this?
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  #291  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 6:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Harley613 View Post
How dare you suggest a region of 1.5 million people have a movie theatre in it's downtown core! Heresy!
Haven't the owners of Lansdowne Cinemas received exclusive rights to all of central Ottawa except for the two independents?
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  #292  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 7:03 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
 
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Haven't the owners of Lansdowne Cinemas received exclusive rights to all of central Ottawa except for the two independents?
I believe theatrical releases are geographically protected (5km I think) so in practice nobody is going to build another megaplex in central Ottawa.

The city subsidizes an entertainment district of sorts a few km from downtown and then people act surprised there is nothing downtown.
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  #293  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2022, 11:13 PM
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I've posted my thoughts on WFH before on this forum(I'm personally pro-WFH) and, in light of the announcements by the Federal Government, I do have a couple of thoughts.

There's been some mention of PS workers being "less efficient" after WFH was implemented. While this may or may not be true(I would like to see some receipts), blaming this lack of efficiency on working from home rather than the systems and processes in place at the government is ridiculous.

If there are any "inefficiencies", it's because of a lack of oversight and accountability. I have been working from home since the start of the pandemic and I am arguably working longer and harder than I was when I was commuting, but I'd still rather take this lifestyle over wasting hours of my life commuting back and forth from work, not to mention the potentially positive impact to the environment due to remote working. My company is mostly WFH yet we're more productive than ever because we actually are accountable for the work that we do.

Also, for the record, I joined my current company during the pandemic so my onboarding was completely virtual and I was able to settle in without any problems. If companies are having issues with onboarding people virtually, it's probably because their onboarding process —.

And, I did mention this before, but 9 to 5 government employees who go straight home to the suburbs after work are not the downtown saviours that we're looking for. There needs to be a whole re-imagining of building a vibrant downtown that does not include employees being forced back into the office.
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  #294  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2022, 3:47 AM
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Where should Ottawa's public servants work? The answer's not simple
It's worth noting that the hybrid model Treasury Board President Mona Fortier is putting in place next year is what she has been advocating for some time.

Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Published Dec 20, 2022 • 3 minute read


The debate over returning federal workers to downtown Ottawa part-time doesn’t lend itself to arguing that one side is right, the other wrong. The situation is too nuanced for that, and there are more than two sides to the issue.

The federal government, as an employer, certainly has the right to dictate where work will take place. Treasury Board President Mona Fortier is correct to assert that right, but work locations should be determined by operational need, not the “fairness and equity” that Fortier cited in making her decision.

If a particular job is best done by employees in the workplace, then that’s where the work should be done. If a job doesn’t require much interaction with co-workers, or those workers are spread across the country, working from home clearly makes sense.

It’s worth noting that the hybrid model that Fortier is putting in place next year is what she has been advocating for some time. It’s also easy to forget that the “part-time” in the office strategy is a compromise that offers workers more freedom than they had pre-pandemic.

None of that has convinced leaders of the major federal unions, who have adopted the idea that federal workers have a right to work where they choose. Determining your own work location is a privilege, not a right. A hybrid work model certainly doesn’t imply that anyone who wants to should work from home.

Public service labour rules don’t just affect employees and the government, of course. Since federal workers were sent home at the beginning of the pandemic, Ottawa’s downtown has become a lonely place that has lost its prime reason for being. Businesses downtown that rely on federal workers have struggled, as has the city’s transit system, which is largely designed to take people to offices in the core.

From an Ottawa perspective, the return of federal workers to offices is a good thing, although only moderately so. The half-time approach will still only leave the downtown with something like half the federal presence it once had.

The challenge of figuring out a new future for our downtown is just as important now as it was before Fortier’s announcement last week. The core of the country’s capital shouldn’t be a ghost town and its current state should not be acceptable to any federal or local politician. Fortier, the MP for Ottawa-Vanier, seems to have figured that out, if belatedly.

That said, federal workers shouldn’t be expected to take transit downtown and eat lunch in a local restaurant just so transit and restaurants are supported. That’s why operational necessity should be the core idea behind hybrid work, not perceived fairness and equity.

The idea of having everyone come to work downtown was out-dated well before the pandemic. That’s something the government itself occasionally recognized, when it moved RCMP employees to Barrhaven and National Defence workers to the former Nortel campus on Carling.

The cost of Ottawa’s multi-billion-dollar LRT system could have been avoided if the federal government had laid out a clear strategy of dispersing jobs and work from home. Instead, all three levels of government poured money into public transit on the grounds that it would reduce emissions and commuting pressures. Work from home has accomplished those goals without the public expense. But here we are, stuck with a dysfunctional downtown, an under-utilized transit system and a disgruntled federal workforce.

Fortier is trying to take into account the needs of workers, the government and the city she represents. Like most compromises, this one has left some dissatisfied but there are no villains in this story, just difficult choices between less than satisfactory options.

The hybrid work compromise helps the downtown and maintains much of the benefit that working from home created, all while emphasizing that the federal government is in charge of the public service, not vice versa. Link work locations to operational need and Fortier will have done the best she can in a difficult situation.

Randall Denley is an Ottawa political commentator and author. Contact him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/denley...lic-servants-work-the-answers-not-simple
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  #295  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2022, 3:49 AM
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More heresy. Why would we ever want this?
So people can escape decrepit downtown more quickly, no?
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  #296  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2022, 3:21 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
 
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So people can escape decrepit downtown more quickly, no?
Yes, and to bring back a case of toilet paper from Costco.
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  #297  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2022, 6:08 PM
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How federal government departments are adjusting to new hybrid work rule
Monday to Friday, 9-to-5 era appears over, says Dalhousie professor

Kate Porter · CBC News
Posted: Dec 21, 2022 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago


Some federal departments already have employees working in the office two or three days per week, but others have to take stock of the Treasury Board directive to shift thousands of employees in that direction.

Treasury Board president Mona Fortier announced Dec. 15 that the core public administration — some 254,000 people, 47 per cent of whom are located in the National Capital Region — will be required to spend 40 to 60 per cent of their schedule working on-site rather than at home.

After a half-year pilot period, Fortier explained "some organizations [were] applying in-person and others weren't doing it the same way," so the common directive was needed to ensure fairness, equity and consistency. The move has been blasted by public service unions, which argue it is restrictive and being imposed unilaterally even though many employees are working well from home.

CBC News asked the Treasury Board directly which departments did not already require employees to go to the office two to three days a week, but had to ask departments individually for current policies.

Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada (ISED), the Department of Finance Canada, Natural Resources Canada, and Statistics Canada reported their current setups are already mostly in line with the new direction.

The media relations office for ISED, for instance, reported the department staggered its return to the office over four groupings in September and October. Most of its employees already work in person two to three days a week, and shouldn't see much change in 2023.

Statistics Canada said its employees are fully equipped for both settings, and offices have quiet rooms and "collaborative spaces" in addition to the traditional boardrooms and individual desks.

National Defence is a large department with thousands of civilian staff, and has noted more than half of its public service workforce never went online, or had already begun a hybrid arrangement before departmental experiments began last summer.

Many other core departments appear to have some larger transitions ahead.

The largest core department, Employment and Social Development Canada, launched its flexible model in September that sees some employees working predominantly off-site, some working on-site, and others doing a hybrid of the two.

After its own experiments with hybrid models this fall, the Correctional Service of Canada has told employees who are mostly working from home they will have to work on-site three days per week. Canadian Heritage, meanwhile, will set its expectations at two days per week, up from the single day required since September.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada notes many of its employees stayed in the field or on ships during the pandemic. For those with a hybrid arrangement, many are working in person one to two days a week.

Environment and Climate Change Canada and Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada each report employees have been encouraged to work from the office more as COVID-19 restrictions have been lifted, and an increasing number have done so.

Other departments, including Public Services and Procurement Canada and the Department of Justice told CBC they have flexible hybrid models and are now reviewing the new approach in order to implement it.

The Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) is by far the largest "separate" agency outside of the core public service, and it intends to follow the Treasury Board's instructions, even though it's not mandatory.

"As we are confident that the benefits of increased in-person collaboration will help strengthen our organization and culture, employees will be required to work a minimum of two days per week in person," CRA told CBC in a statement.

For a professor who has studied hybrid workplaces in the public sector, this all means the traditional Monday to Friday, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. work week is likely over, replaced by a model that is inherently flexible and mixing the benefits of both in-person and remote work.

Still, the transition to move tens of thousands of employees back to offices by March 31 could be rushed, and could have been better communicated, notes Jeffrey Roy, a professor in the school of public administration at Dalhousie University, who teaches students from across the country.

Challenges include technology and making sure public servants can have a "seamless experience," whether they're working from the office or home, he said.

Culture is another issue, as Roy said the public service management can still have a traditional mindset that wants to see employees working in person.

"One of the messages I'm hearing is that the more senior you are, the more time you're expected to be in the office and I think that's kind of the danger in terms of limiting the cultural shift ... of embracing hybrid," said Roy, who encourages senior leaders to embrace the hybrid model at all levels.

While department leaders will need to sort out many aspects of this new one-size-fits-all model, Roy said it appears to be a "healthy [embrace] of a new balance" for the public service.

With files from Matthew Kupfer

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/federal-departments-hybrid-directive-responses-1.6692401
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  #298  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2022, 3:41 PM
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It’s happening more and more…

Flight test pilot I know, previously based in Ottawa for the role, gone to Calgary during COVID and now staying there permanently (allowed to report into Calgary office). Bye bye high paying government job that used to belong to our city.

I have many examples just within my sphere. There must be countless others.

Last edited by YOWflier; Dec 23, 2022 at 5:51 PM.
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  #299  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2022, 5:01 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
 
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I really think downtown Ottawa is a lost cause.

I have watched the changes in my lifetime.

Sparks Street is mostly dead.

The Byward market is no longer a market. Its focus is locals and tourists.

Most of the entertainment options have left downtown.

Most downtown offices do not provide any public services any more and are closed to public access for security reasons.

Shopping options are mostly better in the suburbs.

Unlike in Europe, where the city centre is the meeting place for the city, Ottawa is failing badly. There are no great public squares, and no possibility of having any.

We are moving the public library to Lebreton Flats, which is a dead zone and likely will remain a dead zone, even after we build a bunch of non-descript towers, creating unwelcoming wind tunnels.

Ottawa planners are incapable of building exciting and welcoming new public spaces. There is no vision beyond disjointed small projects.
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  #300  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 4:51 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
 
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I really think downtown Ottawa is a lost cause.

I have watched the changes in my lifetime.

Sparks Street is mostly dead.

The Byward market is no longer a market. Its focus is locals and tourists.

Most of the entertainment options have left downtown.

Most downtown offices do not provide any public services any more and are closed to public access for security reasons.

Shopping options are mostly better in the suburbs.

Unlike in Europe, where the city centre is the meeting place for the city, Ottawa is failing badly. There are no great public squares, and no possibility of having any.

We are moving the public library to Lebreton Flats, which is a dead zone and likely will remain a dead zone, even after we build a bunch of non-descript towers, creating unwelcoming wind tunnels.

Ottawa planners are incapable of building exciting and welcoming new public spaces. There is no vision beyond disjointed small projects.
Being realistic is important but lost cause seems extreme. The Byward Market focusses on locals and tourists? Who should it focus on? Most of the rest I sadly agree with.
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