HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #3681  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:11 AM
ToxiK ToxiK is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
Funny how someone who follows a religion other than Christianity is considered "ultra-religious" by Quebecers.
On the contrary, in Québec the Bible thumping republicans are seen as ultra-religious too.

There is no hypocrisy there; we use to be a very catholic society where religion took way too much place. Québécois don't want that anymore. Secularism is mainly there to make sure priests don't take control again, and we don't want another religion taking over either. Secularism is not negotiable in Québec, not anymore. Many, if not most Catholics now understand that and they agree that religion is for the private sphere. You can do it at home, at Church and you can wear what you want on the street at your leisure. Newcomers don't necessarily agree or understand that (not all of them, many immigrate in Québec especially for secularism because they don't want to live in a theocracy anymore). Québec and Canada have different views on immigration. Canada wants to bend over backward to accomodate immigrants, Québec wants immigrants to adapt to their new society, not the other way around. Those are different views, none of them is necessarily bad. Not embracing multiculturalism doesn't make someone racist, not everything is black and white.
__________________
"Monster," I shrieked, "be thou juggler, enchanter, dream, or devil, no more will I endure thy mockeries. Either thou or I must perish." And saying these words I precipitated myself upon him.
A. Square
     
     
  #3682  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:18 AM
Luisito's Avatar
Luisito Luisito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Such a woeful misconstruing of history that it's not even worth the effort of addressing for the most part. Pining for the days of French colonial rule in Algeria and fearmongering with Islamphobia is just....awful? No other words.
Islamaphobia? really? Have the French controlled Iran and saudi arabia aswell? Are the women in Iran protesting against the government taking off their hijabs, are they islamaphobic too?

I never understood this knee jerk reaction from the woke crowd to defend the most conservative anti-woke religion on the planet. SMH

Last edited by Luisito; Dec 28, 2022 at 2:28 AM.
     
     
  #3683  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:35 AM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
Such a woeful misconstruing of history that it's not even worth the effort of addressing for the most part. Pining for the days of French colonial rule in Algeria and fearmongering with Islamphobia is just....awful? No other words.
The 1970s was NOT French colonial rule in Algeria. Algeria became independent in 1962.

During French Algeria, Muslim women in Algeria were actually veiled (but with the traditional White veil of Algeria, not with the dark veil of Saudi Arabia).

This is how the Muslim women of Algiers looked like during the days of French Algeria, with the traditional Algerian veil (which has now almost completely disappeared):





That traditional veil of Algeria was called the haïk, it was always white (at least in Algiers), often embroidered, sometimes lined with shiny silk for those who had the money, and very different from the dark rigorist hijab of the Arabian Peninsula that is now prevalent all across the Muslim world.

After independence in 1962, Algeria embarked on a progressive, liberal course, and that's why by the 1970s a majority of women in the cities were unveiled and dressed like Europeans (which wasn't the case at all in the days of French Algeria). Same in Tunisia (the first president of Tunisia banned the Islamic veil outright), Lebanon, Syria, Iran, even Afghanistan.

That was Kabul in the 1970s:





Then by the 1980s a creeping form of conservatism imported from the Arabian Peninsula engulfed the entire Arab world.

Women in Algeria and elsewhere are actually fighting to drop the veil imposed by conservative clerics and politicians since the 1980s:

__________________
New Axa – New Brisavoine
     
     
  #3684  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:44 AM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,863
I guess the conservative Islamic world and the Francophonie both share an affinity for positive rights...
     
     
  #3685  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:46 AM
Luisito's Avatar
Luisito Luisito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I guess the conservative Islamic world and the Francophonie both share an affinity for positive rights...
Be honest, in which region would you rather live?

Last edited by Luisito; Dec 28, 2022 at 3:00 AM.
     
     
  #3686  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:47 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 44,901
I was going to say, the conservative Islamic world and Anglo-Canada share an affinity for oppression. Why else would you take the side against those who want to liberate themselves from the obligation to wear these oppressive garments all the time (in Quebec, or Iran, or Algeria, or wherever)?
     
     
  #3687  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:49 AM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I was going to say, the conservative Islamic world and Anglo-Canada share an affinity for oppression. Why else would you take the side against those who want to liberate themselves from the obligation to wear these oppressive garments all the time (in Quebec, or Iran, or Algeria, or wherever)?
I must have missed that news conference where Doug Ford sided with the Iranian authorities.
     
     
  #3688  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 2:53 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 44,901
You actually kinda do side with the Iranian authorities, when you argue that the veil should be elevated to special untouchable status that would allow it to officially trump good old regular Quebec rules about uniforms and decorum.
     
     
  #3689  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:02 AM
Architype's Avatar
Architype Architype is online now
♒︎ verified human
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 🍁 Canada
Posts: 14,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito View Post
Yeah the ironic part about that is Christianity has it's roots in the middle east and spread very early on through out the middle east and Africa. Tell an Ethiopian , an Eritrian or a Coptic Egyptian that their religion is a white religion. Tell a Chaldean or Maronite that their religion is European. SMH Most of these regions were Christian before most of Europe was.
Yes, that's why I said "hypocritically", however it's still the de facto religious powerhouse influentially in the world, and has been for a couple of centuries. The white European/American/Hispanic world is almost exclusively Christian, albeit now being replaced by the new humanist atheism, it's still rooted in the more benevolent Christian ideals, with it's sordid baggage tagging along. Obviously, economic racism is the white person's domain, and Christian hypocrisy is it's central tool.

Africa, known as the dark continent has little influence in the world, (except for practically all the music we listen to, LOL.) and is a mixture.


https://decolonialatlas.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/religion-in-africa/
__________________
Photos Vancouver 2 0 2 5
     
     
  #3690  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:06 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 44,901
Nearly all the Congolese I know are devout Christians. It’s really weird. If I were to name the people I know who regularly attend church, the Congolese would dwarf the Québécois. (Latinos also would, for the record.)
     
     
  #3691  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:11 AM
hipster duck's Avatar
hipster duck hipster duck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
You actually kinda do side with the Iranian authorities, when you argue that the veil should be elevated to special untouchable status that would allow it to officially trump good old regular Quebec rules about uniforms and decorum.
Yeah, because we oppose Bill 21, we're cheering the fashion dictates of the Taliban and the Iranian theocracy. The world isn't so zero sum, lio.
     
     
  #3692  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:14 AM
Luisito's Avatar
Luisito Luisito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Nearly all the Congolese I know are devout Christians. It’s really weird. If I were to name the people I know who regularly attend church, the Congolese would dwarf the Québécois. (Latinos also would, for the record.)
I would say that is true for most Christian Africans. Very religious people. I knew a minister in a presbyterian church in Montreal, his congregation was almost entirely Ghanaian. This particular church would have died out if it wasn't for the newer Ghanain members. Most of them were young people with families and very devout. The few white members of the church left were all over the age of 65. This was several decades ago now. The church could be entirely African now for all I know.
     
     
  #3693  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:21 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 44,901
In my hometown the indisputable kings of time-spent-in-church are Latino: https://www.sherbrookerecord.com/rodriguez-flores-family-steps-out-of-plymouth-trinity/

     
     
  #3694  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:24 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 44,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Yeah, because we oppose Bill 21, we're cheering the fashion dictates of the Taliban and the Iranian theocracy. The world isn't so zero sum, lio.
Some questions are pretty much binary. If you’re pro-veil, then you’re pro-veil. Some users on this forum are pro-Putin; they can’t claim they’re also pro-Ukraine. (Just an example among recent ones.)

If you’re on the side of the people who oppose the Iranian theocracy, you know that one of the main things they’re fighting for is getting rid of the veil? How is that compatible with actively opposing Bill 21? “Anti-veil when it’s Iran, pro-veil when it’s Quebec” is not consistent, it’s trolling / Quebec bashing.
     
     
  #3695  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:26 AM
theman23's Avatar
theman23 theman23 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ville de Québec
Posts: 6,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Relative numbers vs absolute numbers... Ontario is also more populated than Québec and receives more overall immigrants than Québec.
Muslims make up 4.8% of the population of Quebec, versus 6.7% in Ontario and 4.8 % in Alberta. Didn’t realize that was considered a big difference.
__________________
For entertainment purposes only. Not financial advice.
     
     
  #3696  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:29 AM
Luisito's Avatar
Luisito Luisito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
In my hometown the indisputable kings of time-spent-in-church are Latino: https://www.sherbrookerecord.com/rodriguez-flores-family-steps-out-of-plymouth-trinity/


Time spent in the church hiding.
     
     
  #3697  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:32 AM
Architype's Avatar
Architype Architype is online now
♒︎ verified human
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 🍁 Canada
Posts: 14,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisito View Post
I would say that is true for most Christian Africans. Very religious people. I knew a minister in a presbyterian church in Montreal, his congregation was almost entirely Ghanaian. This particular church would have died out if it wasn't for the newer Ghanain members. Most of them were young people with families and very devout. The few white members of the church left were all over the age of 65. This was several decades ago now. The church could be entirely African now for all I know.
Was Ghana colonized by the Scottish? Presbyterianism is rooted in Scotland. The phenomenon of Christian churches being saved by immigrants is prevalent here too; in Vancouver numerous churches (e.g. Catholic Filipino) have become mainly populated by immigrants. I wonder if in a generation or two, that will also fade?
     
     
  #3698  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:37 AM
Architype's Avatar
Architype Architype is online now
♒︎ verified human
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 🍁 Canada
Posts: 14,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Some questions are pretty much binary. If you’re pro-veil, then you’re pro-veil. Some users on this forum are pro-Putin; they can’t claim they’re also pro-Ukraine. (Just an example among recent ones.)

If you’re on the side of the people who oppose the Iranian theocracy, you know that one of the main things they’re fighting for is getting rid of the veil? How is that compatible with actively opposing Bill 21? “Anti-veil when it’s Iran, pro-veil when it’s Quebec” is not consistent, it’s trolling / Quebec bashing.
There is a big difference between not being allowed to do something, and being forced to do that very thing. Democracy isn't necessarily restricted to binary or exclusionary choices, it's rooted in equality and freedom of choice.
     
     
  #3699  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:44 AM
Luisito's Avatar
Luisito Luisito is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Was Ghana colonized by the Scottish? Presbyterianism is rooted in Scotland. The phenomenon of Christian churches being saved by immigrants is prevalent here too; in Vancouver numerous churches (e.g. Catholic Filipino) have become mainly populated by immigrants. I wonder if in a generation or two, that will also fade?
Yes you are correct the Presbyterian church is strong in Scotland. The minister at this Church was of Scottish background. Not sure if there is a Scottish connection to Ghana, in anycase they were very devout.

Same here in Winnipeg many Roman Catholic churches are predominantly Filipino now. Will be interesting to see if that's still the case in a few generations. There are also many Ukranian/Eastern Catholic & Orthodox churches here. They seem to be going strong. I saw online a while back a group of Orthodox parents were trying to start a private Orthodox school here. They need lots of young people for that.

Last edited by Luisito; Dec 28, 2022 at 3:59 AM.
     
     
  #3700  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2022, 3:47 AM
lio45 lio45 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Quebec
Posts: 44,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Architype View Post
There is a big difference between not being allowed to do something, and being forced to do that very thing. Democracy isn't necessarily restricted to binary or exclusionary choices, it's rooted in equality and freedom of choice.
Since we’ve had, for a long time, well-established and well-accepted rules for cops and judges and government employees, it becomes a binary question: do we want to formally grant the veil a special law-trumping status, or do we not want to do that?

The people of this province are strongly in favor of the latter. Hence, Bill 21.

If you want to wear the veil, fine, do it on your own time.

If you’d rather throw your career in the trash over this, that’s duly noted; we don’t need more crazies, everyone will be better off if you move to Ontario. Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:16 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.