Wellington Street Pedestrian Mall

[ejm]

For lrt's friend and others who are worried about City Center's moving away from cars see links below great articles on what many European Cities are moving towards, closing streets to traffic, pedestrian friendly, safe walkable cities.

I do not see why you keep referring to dooms day of crazies and non-stop gun violence. Most of the gun violence in Ottawa happens outside the city center in areas like Ledbury Southgate, Southkeys Herongate, Britannia Woods, gangs against gangs.

See links below for cities moving to a better model, read up and travel ..!

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/sep/18/paradise-life-spanish-city-banned-cars-pontevedra

https://www.fastcompany.com/90456075/her...that-have-joined-the-car-free-revolution

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/05/2...s-are-experimenting-with-green-transport

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/car-free-cities-opposition

[Acajack]

In fairness to Lrt's Friend, you do need a certain number of essential conditions to be met in order to successful pursue somewhat aggressive pedestrianization in the core of a city.

Rare are the North American cities where those conditions are already in place, and I am a bit on the fence as to whether Ottawa is an exception to that rule at this point.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In fairness to Lrt's Friend, you do need a certain number of essential conditions to be met in order to successful pursue somewhat aggressive pedestrianization in the core of a city.

Rare are the North American cities where those conditions are already in place, and I am a bit on the fence as to whether Ottawa is an exception to that rule at this point.

Thank you.

I am not against pedestrianization per se, but if we are going to be close downtown streets willy-nilly, we better have another way to move people to and from downtown. We have one subway, serving the entire city. I contend that this is no where near enough to create a 'European' style environment to welcome people into downtown easily.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by ejm

For lrt's friend and others who are worried about City Center's moving away from cars see links below great articles on what many European Cities are moving towards, closing streets to traffic, pedestrian friendly, safe walkable cities.

I do not see why you keep referring to dooms day of crazies and non-stop gun violence. Most of the gun violence in Ottawa happens outside the city center in areas like Ledbury Southgate, Southkeys Herongate, Britannia Woods, gangs against gangs.

See links below for cities moving to a better model, read up and travel ..!

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/sep/18/paradise-life-spanish-city-banned-cars-pontevedra

https://www.fastcompany.com/90456075/her...that-have-joined-the-car-free-revolution

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/05/2...s-are-experimenting-with-green-transport

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/car-free-cities-opposition

None of these examples are closing down things that look like Wellington. You want to close traffic in the downtown core then fine. Closing one dead street at the periphery of the core and dumping all of the traffic into the core is not accomplishing any of the goals you think it is.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Thank you.

I am not against pedestrianization per se, but if we are going to be close downtown streets willy-nilly, we better have another way to move people to and from downtown. We have one subway, serving the entire city. I contend that this is no where near enough to create a 'European' style environment to welcome people into downtown easily.

I don’t think any of these people have ever been to Europe. If they have they were too drunk on the Contiki bus to see anything.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by ejm

For lrt's friend and others who are worried about City Center's moving away from cars see links below great articles on what many European Cities are moving towards, closing streets to traffic, pedestrian friendly, safe walkable cities.

I do not see why you keep referring to dooms day of crazies and non-stop gun violence. Most of the gun violence in Ottawa happens outside the city center in areas like Ledbury Southgate, Southkeys Herongate, Britannia Woods, gangs against gangs.

See links below for cities moving to a better model, read up and travel ..!

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/sep/18/paradise-life-spanish-city-banned-cars-pontevedra

https://www.fastcompany.com/90456075/her...that-have-joined-the-car-free-revolution

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/05/2...s-are-experimenting-with-green-transport

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/car-free-cities-opposition

Let's be realistic. European cities have trams and trains running everywhere. I have visited many and I have been envious of how easy it is to move around without a car.

Has Ottawa achieved that? A big N-O.

We have made a start, but this is no where near the level of public transport infrastructure that exists in countless European cities.

I have commented hundreds of times about the need to improve our transit infrastructure further, and I have received quite a bit of flack, suggesting that we don't need it or can't afford it. We are quite happy to promote auto domination.

So, we see what our priorities really are.

You cannot do only one part of what European cities are doing. There is a reason why they can pedestrianize their cities. This came after decades of investment to make it possible.

If you pedestrianize without the supporting infrastructure to get people there without a car, you end up with a ghost town, and that has been quite evident since the beginning of the pandemic.

I will be happy to see a European design here in Ottawa, but where is the infrastructure investment needed to support it?

What I have said, is the opinion of countless Ottawans. Downtown is not the most desirable place anymore.

Your comments about gun violence being mostly in certain suburban neighbourhoods, does not reflect that there is a perceived problem downtown, especially around the ByWard market particularly late at night. The bigger problem is the crazies, the addicts, associated with the shelters. They are everywhere downtown. That does not create a welcoming environment especially with the recent absence of PS workers downtown. The crazies stand out more than ever.

So, lets move towards a more European setup, but lets not put the cart before the horse. Get that infrastructure built. But I listen to the crickets. I don't see adequate infrastructure being built in my lifetime.

[ejm]

All valid points taken into account about location of Wellington Street being limited with Commercial offerings but a city is organic and as one thing closes or changes it may lead to other positive outcomes.

A few key elements and examples to take into account, with government workers working more remotely and the Federal Government Treasury Board looking to sell off or not renew current government leased space, those buildings will in many cases be developed into housing which brings more people downtown (examples 170 Metcalfe already converted, 309 Cooper Street, 531 Albert Street, The Slayte opening soon).

Not that the Washington Mall is a good example but plenty of open, non-vehicular pedestrian friendly space around major Government buildings which allow for social gatherings or protests and easily controlled.

What if Wellington was turned into a tree lined park setting with a Streetcar running through it. Crosstown car access is not an argument as there are plenty of East West Roads from Queen, Albert Slater and to Laurier and other south. Deliver access to existing Wellington St. Building could be facilitated as it now is on Sparks for loading delivers for certain set times of the day. An the option to have an open air concert, festival or pick nick in a park facing Parliament could be quite pleasant. Dare to Dream, instead of thinking of it as an Zombie empty street. It will take time and does not happen over night but with the right thinking, and elements implemented could be a great urban park across from House of Parliament.

https://twitter.com/quenchbuggy/status/1529827181399920640/photo/1

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

None of these examples are closing down things that look like Wellington. You want to close traffic in the downtown core then fine. Closing one dead street at the periphery of the core and dumping all of the traffic into the core is not accomplishing any of the goals you think it is.

Agreed!

The closing of Wellington is about security, and not about creating a successful pedestrian street. As you have said, almost all the buildings along the street are not open to the public. How can this make anything other than a dead zone?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by ejm

All valid points taken into account about location of Wellington Street being limited with Commercial offerings but a city is organic and as one thing closes or changes it may lead to other positive outcomes.

A few key elements and examples to take into account, with government workers more remotely and the Federal Government Treasury Board looking to sell off or not renew current government spaces those will in many cases be developed into housing which brings more people downtown (examples 170 Metcalfe already converted, 309 Cooper Street, 531 Albert Street, The Slayte opening soon).

Not that the Washington Mall is a good example but plenty of open, non-vehicular pedestrian friendly space around major Government buildings which allow for social gatherings or protests and easily controlled.

What if Wellington was turned into a tree lined park setting with a Streetcar running through it. Crosstown car access is not an argument as there are plenty of East West Roads from Queen, Albert Slater and to Laurier and other south. Deliver access to existing Wellington St. Building could be facilitated as it now is on Sparks for loading delivers for certain set times of the day. An the option to have an open air concert, festival or pick nick in a park facing Parliament could be quite pleasant. Dare to Dream, instead of thinking of it as an Zombie empty street. It will take time and does not happen over night but with the right thinking, and elements implemented could be a great urban park across from House of Parliament.

https://twitter.com/mattzollerseitz/status/822845883884638209

The Washington Mall is a massive green space that is wide enough to accommodate all kinds of activities. It is lined with (free) museums that give people lots to do.

Wellington Street is is about 15m wide, and the parliamentarians won’t give up their short bus, so the maximum that might be available is about 10m. If a streetcar is built it will take up all of that space.

The buildings along Wellington Street are all crown owned. Public Works has not given any indication they are trying to sell those buildings, in fact they recently announced the construction of another complex of office buildings on Wellington.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by ejm

All valid points taken into account about location of Wellington Street being limited with Commercial offerings but a city is organic and as one thing closes or changes it may lead to other positive outcomes.

A few key elements and examples to take into account, with government workers working more remotely and the Federal Government Treasury Board looking to sell off or not renew current government leased space, those buildings will in many cases be developed into housing which brings more people downtown (examples 170 Metcalfe already converted, 309 Cooper Street, 531 Albert Street, The Slayte opening soon).

Not that the Washington Mall is a good example but plenty of open, non-vehicular pedestrian friendly space around major Government buildings which allow for social gatherings or protests and easily controlled.

What if Wellington was turned into a tree lined park setting with a Streetcar running through it. Crosstown car access is not an argument as there are plenty of East West Roads from Queen, Albert Slater and to Laurier and other south. Deliver access to existing Wellington St. Building could be facilitated as it now is on Sparks for loading delivers for certain set times of the day. An the option to have an open air concert, festival or pick nick in a park facing Parliament could be quite pleasant. Dare to Dream, instead of thinking of it as an Zombie empty street. It will take time and does not happen over night but with the right thinking, and elements implemented could be a great urban park across from House of Parliament.

https://twitter.com/quenchbuggy/status/1529827181399920640/photo/1

I understand what you are trying to achieve, but does it really add a whole lot more than what the front lawn of Parliament Hill already offers.

I am apposed to a Wellington streetcar, simply because of the possibility of service interruptions because of protests, festivals or celebrations. I just don't see it making reliable transit.

Yes, there are alternative routes for traffic, but this is making for awkward routing. None of the other streets connect east or west without multiple turns, not exactly making it easy particularly for tourists to navigate.

[Aylmer]

The level of angst and hand-wringing over 3 blocks of a street that's been closed to private cars almost a year, oh my. Whether or not you think it to be a good idea, it's worth establishing some idea of proportionality. Not everything is the Chicxulub Impactor.

[rocketphish]

Ottawa mayor open to giving up jurisdiction over street in front of Parliament Hill
But city and federal officials are 'still gonna have to work together to police downtown Ottawa and respond to demonstrations and threats,' Sutcliffe warned

Ryan Tumilty, Ottawa Citizen
Published Dec 17, 2022 • Last updated 5 hours ago • 3 minute read

OTTAWA — Ottawa Mayor Mark Sutcliffe says he is open to giving the street in front of Parliament Hill to the federal government, but he says simply redrawing maps won’t solve all the lingering concerns left by the Freedom Convoy.

Currently, the federal government’s jurisdiction ends as soon as someone steps off Parliament Hill and onto Wellington Street, which runs in front of the parliamentary buildings and which was crammed with tractor-trailers and other vehicles during the Freedom Convoy.

A parliamentary committee recommended this week the government should take responsibility for both Wellington and nearby Sparks Street, as part of several steps to ensure the Freedom Convoy doesn’t repeat itself.

“I’m not opposed to the idea of the parliamentary precinct expanding and looking at solutions, but that alone is not going to solve the problem,” the Ottawa mayor said. “No matter where those lines are, we’re still gonna have to work together to police downtown Ottawa and respond to demonstrations and threats.”

The proposal would give the federal government control over Wellington, running from the National Memorial to the Supreme Court. All the buildings on that stretch are government-owned, with most serving as parliamentary offices.

During testimony before the committee reviewing the issue, Larry Brookson, the director of the Parliamentary Protective Service, said he would have opposed the Ottawa Police plan to allow trucks onto Wellington, but he didn’t have any authority.

Sutcliffe said he suspects any future protest will be handled differently, regardless of how the issue is resolved. He said he is concerned that the city’s police force dose not have the complete responsibility for these events.

“The people of Ottawa pay taxes into their municipal government to pay for a police service for a city of a million people. They don’t pay taxes to also police a national capital,” he said. “There are going to be more of these events in the future and I don’t think the taxpayers of Ottawa should have to bear that burden.”

Liberal MPs, along with Bloc and NDP MPs joined together in making the suggestion for a takeover of the two streets, along with greater coordination and planning for large events.

The government has long-term plans that would create more offices for MPs off of Parliament Hill, as construction work continues and the number of MPs grows alongside Canada’s population.

Liberal MP Greg Fergus said as it stands one side of the street falls under the City of Ottawa’s jurisdiction and another falls on Parliament HIll. He said that is the kind of thing that needs to be addressed.

“It untangles the unnecessarily complicated jurisdictional issue which exists with regards to what most people think is the Parliament Hill area,” he said.

Since the Freedom Convoy the road has been closed to most traffic with large barricades in place. Fergus said there is an opportunity to not only make the area safer, but to ultimately make it more inviting.

“This is one of the ways that can help that going forward, as well as it creates, like other capitals of the world, a lovely public space for people to gather, not only to protest, but to celebrate.”

The parliamentary committee was not unanimous in its opinion on the issue. Conservative MPs on the committee wrote a dissenting opinion arguing that security experts should be left to decide what should happen.

“We did not hear a compelling argument from witnesses that politicians ought to wade in and give directions to policing and security professionals. Indeed, we heard views that the status quo was unsatisfactory to some and that stagnation on these questions would not be welcomed, but we did not hear that there was an impasse which only non-expert politicians could resolve,” wrote the Conservative MPs.

The Conservative MPs said it is not fair to think of the issue only as a security concern when Wellington Street is so central to the city itself.

“The need to double down on collaboration about Wellington Street is because it is not exclusively a security matter but is also a critical artery for transportation in downtown Ottawa.”

The parliamentary committee’s report is not binding, but the government must provide a response to the House of Commons within 120 days.

Twitter: RyanTumilty
Email: [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/ottawa-mayor-parliament-hill

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ejm

All valid points taken into account about location of Wellington Street being limited with Commercial offerings but a city is organic and as one thing closes or changes it may lead to other positive outcomes.

A few key elements and examples to take into account, with government workers working more remotely and the Federal Government Treasury Board looking to sell off or not renew current government leased space, those buildings will in many cases be developed into housing which brings more people downtown (examples 170 Metcalfe already converted, 309 Cooper Street, 531 Albert Street, The Slayte opening soon).

Not that the Washington Mall is a good example but plenty of open, non-vehicular pedestrian friendly space around major Government buildings which allow for social gatherings or protests and easily controlled.

What if Wellington was turned into a tree lined park setting with a Streetcar running through it. Crosstown car access is not an argument as there are plenty of East West Roads from Queen, Albert Slater and to Laurier and other south. Deliver access to existing Wellington St. Building could be facilitated as it now is on Sparks for loading delivers for certain set times of the day. An the option to have an open air concert, festival or pick nick in a park facing Parliament could be quite pleasant. Dare to Dream, instead of thinking of it as an Zombie empty street. It will take time and does not happen over night but with the right thinking, and elements implemented could be a great urban park across from House of Parliament.

https://twitter.com/quenchbuggy/status/1529827181399920640/photo/1

Yeah, the Feds really need to step it up to make Wellington more of a people place. Closing it, fine. Adding trams (still waiting on that funding) would be awesome, but we also need destinations on Wellington other than Parliament. Other than the Bank of Canada Building, the NCC Info Centre and the St. Andrew's Church (is it still a church?), none of the buildings are accessible to the public. Hoping the Indigenous Centre eventually has exhibits for the public, Feds should once again look at opening a portrait gallery (and throw in the photography museum Harper closed). a few restaurants and cafés.

As it stands, Wellington is a dead zone and we absolutely need to change that as part of this move.

[lrt's friend]

Given the history of the feds on Sparks Street as a retail landlord and security concerns on Wellington , I would not hold my breath for significant improvements that will breath new life into Wellington. As we continue to close down downtown Street by street, expect the suburban 1,000,000+ to increasingly turn their backs on downtown It is such a great place that the PS does not want to return.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Given the history of the feds on Sparks Street as a retail landlord and security concerns on Wellington , I would not hold my breath for significant improvements that will breath new life into Wellington. As we continue to close down downtown Street by street, expect the suburban 1,000,000+ to increasingly turn their backs on downtown It is such a great place that the PS does not want to return.

I find your hyperbole on this topic to be a bit much. "We continue to close downtown street by street"? Well, we closed Sparks St. in 1967 and then Wellington in 2022, so I guess that does constitute a bit of a pattern. And the PS doesn't want to return to any offices, not just the ones located downtown, so I'm not sure how that demonstrates much of anything about downtown. It all seems a bit defeatist.

I'm torn on a Wellington closure, but I see the benefit of a larger pedestrian district, not all of which needs to be shopping and cafes. What I don't buy is that prioritizing car access is the recipe for a rejuvenated downtown. Mainly because I don't think that has actually worked anywhere.

Being realistic, there is a good portion of the suburban population who are perfectly content with their stroads and big box shopping options located a quick 10 minute drive from their houses (45 minutes on Saturday afternoon). If that group is forced to be in the office, they will do their 7 to 3 and head right back to their suburban homes right after work. That group isn't coming downtown outside of work hours regardless of how many theatres and galleries and world class restaurants we manage to attract. They aren't the target market.

The real target market is the (still) growing downtown population, students, tourists who want to explore the city by foot or by bike, business visitors and others in the city who appreciate a varied urban environment. I don't think a couple of closed roads is very likely to dissuade that group from visiting.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

The real target market is the (still) growing downtown population, students, tourists who want to explore the city by foot or by bike, business visitors and others in the city who appreciate a varied urban environment. I don't think a couple of closed roads is very likely to dissuade that group from visiting.

Even if that is in fact the real target market (and to me it seems quite niche to plan a city around), it is unclear how closing Wellington in any way benefits them.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Even if that is in fact the real target market (and to me it seems quite niche to plan a city around), it is unclear how closing Wellington in any way benefits them.

Not really saying that you plan the whole city around that group (though it is actually quite a lot of people), but they are the ones that will keep downtown bustling 24/7. Or at least be the ones supporting the new businesses that would make downtown more attractive to your far-flung suburban commuter (to the extent that is even possible)

Closing Wellington creates more public space. The business district is not exactly awash with good public spaces. If done right, any centrally-located public space should be attractive to residents and tourists.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

Not really saying that you plan the whole city around that group (though it is actually quite a lot of people), but they are the ones that will keep downtown bustling 24/7. Or at least be the ones supporting the new businesses that would make downtown more attractive to your far-flung suburban commuter (to the extent that is even possible)

Closing Wellington creates more public space. If done right, it should be attractive to residents and tourists.

The mere existence of a public space does not attract residents and tourists, otherwise the Garden of the Provinces, Sparks Street and Confederation Square would be much more lively. Successful public spaces are animated, they have things to do, things to see, opportunities to people watch, etc. In the context where the closed part of Wellington is a blank wall of closed government office buildings on one side and a stone/iron wall in front of a hill on the other side it is unclear where this public animation is supposed to come from. The available space will also be quite limited. Cyclists will demand a dedicated cycling facility and MPs will not give up their short bus, so at best we're talking about something that looks like Wellington does now with slightly wider sidewalks, which is not a source of animation.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by phil235

The real target market is the (still) growing downtown population, students, tourists who want to explore the city by foot or by bike, business visitors and others in the city who appreciate a varied urban environment. I don't think a couple of closed roads is very likely to dissuade that group from visiting.

Good thing we have two major universities that have retuned in person pretty much full-time.

Side note, I wonder if/how much the closure of the Trillium Line has impacted downtown. That's a market of 30k+ that lost easy access to the core with the City's short-cited decision to shut down the line instead of doing partial closures and/or expediting the original route.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The mere existence of a public space does not attract residents and tourists, otherwise the Garden of the Provinces, Sparks Street and Confederation Square would be much more lively. Successful public spaces are animated, they have things to do, things to see, opportunities to people watch, etc. In the context where the closed part of Wellington is a blank wall of closed government office buildings on one side and a stone/iron wall in front of a hill on the other side it is unclear where this public animation is supposed to come from. The available space will also be quite limited. Cyclists will demand a dedicated cycling facility and MPs will not give up their short bus, so at best we're talking about something that looks like Wellington does now with slightly wider sidewalks, which is not a source of animation.

I hear you on the animation point. But I do think that Wellington is much more of a through route between Bank and Elgin, so it would have a lot more natural foot traffic than the Garden of the Provinces. (I find Confederation Park, if that is what you are meaning, to be quite lively.) I wouldn't envision a road with sidewalks, but more of a well-designed, unified public space that could host events and that people would want to hang out in.

Maybe there can't be dedicated bike lanes, or the planned bike lanes move to Sparks. Surely they can find a way to accommodate the short bus.