Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by esquire

Even one weekend there will tell you that living out by the airport is not exactly vibrant, big-city living. Anyone with even a cursory experience with cities in general will understand that deep suburbia, even in Toronto, is a place oriented to families and quieter lifestyles.

But my point was that that conventional wisdom doesn't apply to Toronto.

Many of Toronto's 905 suburbs are more ethnic areas where people of all ages and life stages live because it has "their thing". I'm not black, but I knew quite a few Asian people in their late twenties who bought condos in Markham and Richmond Hill (or decided to stay at their parents' homes) and spent their Friday and Saturday nights going up and down Highway 7 or Yonge Street in North York Centre. They rarely went downtown either. Even if they worked downtown, they didn't feel the urge to live downtown or come in for anything besides work. It's not that they didn't like going out and having fun - it's just that the downtown scene wasn't theirs.

To give the lady in the article the benefit of the doubt, she probably knew that Edmonton didn't have an area with a lot of black/Caribbean culture or clubs, so she just arbitrarily picked a house based on the home itself rather than the location.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Move to Alberta they said...cheap housing and low taxes they said...

https://torontolife.com/city/i-moved-to-...ter-three-months-i-came-back-to-toronto/

Posted this in the Ugly Canada thread aswell. The Calgary equivalent would be for her to move to Strathmore or Balzac while expecting the vibrancy of 17th Ave. and the Beltline. She's an idiot. Her comparison of the job market in Calgary to that of Milton is also hilarious. I guess Kenney managed to dupe one of the most gullible yuppies into moving. I didn't think that ad campaign would attract anyone.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Re: Toronto Life Article

I'm not exactly Mr. Woke, but people are forgetting that she's black and a lot of the culture she belongs to is found in the suburbs.

She said she goes to Cactus Club 5x/week. That's not exactly focused on her community.

Originally Posted by esquire

The article was pure silliness. This woman was her own worst enemy.

And then chose to proclaim that the problem was Edmonton. Not her choices.

And it's not just her choices in Edmonton. She really didn't lay out why she chose Edmonton over say Calgary or Winnipeg or Ottawa or Montreal.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

She said she goes to Cactus Club 5x/week. That's not exactly focused on her community.

First of all, who cares? People can go to chain restaurants without other people passing judgment on them. Niwell's right in that the Toronto Life wrote this as clickbait so snobbish Torontonians would think she was some kind of "basic —" who lives at Square One and eats corporate chain food.

Second, in a way it kind of is. Second generation Afro-Caribbean Torontonians that I know (who are almost all women) don't care that much about food but care more about a venue for socializing in a big group. Cactus Club is the kind of place where 6-10 people can walk in and get a table immediately without a reservation. Most of the restaurants that serve Caribbean food are small holes in the wall, and not really the kinds of places where entire families or groups of friends go in to dine, and many of them are dry.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

She said she goes to Cactus Club 5x/week. That's not exactly focused on her community.



And then chose to proclaim that the problem was Edmonton. Not her choices.

And it's not just her choices in Edmonton. She really didn't lay out why she chose Edmonton over say Calgary or Winnipeg or Ottawa or Montreal.

Cactus Club six times a week? There’s a gal enjoying everything urban Canada has to offer!

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Cactus Club six times a week? There’s a gal enjoying everything urban Canada has to offer!

I see the problem. Cactus Club locations in Edmonton are somewhat suburban. West Edmonton Mall is not quite the same vibe of a Cactus Club in downtown Vancouver.

Her mistake was not moving to Saskatoon. Their Cactus Club is in the CBD.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

First of all, who cares? People can go to chain restaurants without other people passing judgment on them. Niwell's right in that the Toronto Life wrote this as clickbait so snobbish Torontonians would think she was some kind of "basic —" who lives at Square One and eats corporate chain food.

Second, in a way it kind of is. Second generation Afro-Caribbean Torontonians that I know (who are almost all women) don't care that much about food but care more about a venue for socializing in a big group. Cactus Club is the kind of place where 6-10 people can walk in and get a table immediately without a reservation. Most of the restaurants that serve Caribbean food are small holes in the wall, and not really the kinds of places where entire families or groups of friends go in to dine, and many of them are dry.

I largely agree, however....

She does deserve a little side-eye for moving to, uh, Edmonton and expecting Mississauga or outer suburbia Toronto. I mean, I've moved to some places that were pretty incompatible with what I wanted out of life writ large and the people were not really my thing. I lived, I learned. The restaurants can be the same, but the people can be very different.

I just probably wouldn't blame the place as it was me who erred, nor would I go and take a notch out of those places so publicly.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Cactus Club six times a week? There’s a gal enjoying everything urban Canada has to offer!

What immediately comes to mind is Anthony Bourdain making fun of chain restaurants
TGI McFunsters! and SouthPark mocking similar chains.
"But Alicia, Cactus Club is higher end"

Edmonton might not be Canada's nightlife capital, but there's plenty of cool spots to go that aren't chains. It is one of Canada's fastest growing cities and Metros with a vibrant student population thanks to a large #4 ranked school: U of Alberta, and also Grant McEwan and NAIT.
The people I met in Edmonton through my (Edmontonian native) roommate were more intellectual, less money hungry (and more — liberated: D) than almost all of the folks I met in my 5 years in Calgary.

As Redditors say YMMV your mileage may vary

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Wigs

What immediately comes to mind is Anthony Bourdain making fun of chain restaurants
TGI McFunsters! and SouthPark mocking similar chains.
"But Alicia, Cactus Club is higher end"

Edmonton might not be Canada's nightlife capital, but there's plenty of cool spots to go that aren't chains. It is one of Canada's fastest growing cities and Metros with a vibrant student population thanks to a huge top 5 school: U of Alberta, and also Grant McEwan and NAIT.
The people I met in Edmonton through my roommate were more intellectual, less money hungry (and more — liberated: D) than almost all of the folks I met in my 5 years in Calgary.

As Redditors say YMMV your mileage may vary

That's fine, and people would likely be happier if they just were honest about what they really wanted.

I can't fault people for trying something new. Buying a home seems a rather large commitment though, and figuring out life on the ground might be the better option first before committing.

A public shredding of a place because it wasn't your taste is gauche.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

First of all, who cares? People can go to chain restaurants without other people passing judgment on them. Niwell's right in that the Toronto Life wrote this as clickbait so snobbish Torontonians would think she was some kind of "basic —" who lives at Square One and eats corporate chain food.

Second, in a way it kind of is. Second generation Afro-Caribbean Torontonians that I know (who are almost all women) don't care that much about food but care more about a venue for socializing in a big group. Cactus Club is the kind of place where 6-10 people can walk in and get a table immediately without a reservation. Most of the restaurants that serve Caribbean food are small holes in the wall, and not really the kinds of places where entire families or groups of friends go in to dine, and many of them are dry.

I'm not by any means suggesting there's anything wrong with going to Cactus Club. Just saying, your previous assertion was that she lived in Peel to be close to her community. I don't think that lines up with what she's saying and doing in the article. I don't think the problem for her in Edmonton was a lack of connection with her ethnic community. She's defining urbanity and nightlife as 5x/wk access to Cactus Club. And then chooses a city and neighbourhood where this is difficult.

Also, I judge all 905ers who call themselves Torontonians and consider themselves cityfolk, not for living near Square One or eating chain food, but for not partaking in something basic to most of the 416: riding the rocket. If you aren't using transit locally (not just GO to get downtown) a few times a month, you're not really an urban Torontonian. This is something that the 416 has in common across classes, races and genders. There's a fundamentally different experience in the 416 where so many take transit. And it defines who you are. It's just definitely not a 905 thing. Easy test of anybody who claims to be Torontonian, ask them which subway station has the best patties. 905ers will all give you a blank stare. Every 416er will tell you their favourite.

Why bring up that point? Because really, lifestyles between any 905 suburb and most cities in Canada, beyond TMV proper, is pretty similar. It's all fairly similarly suburban. So given that, I don't think she really missed urbanity, so much as she missed her drinking buddies at the Cactus Club.

[Wigs]

Truenorth, my Dad and his siblings were all born and raised in Toronto just off Danforth near Coxwell station. My grandfather was from Leslieville. I've never lived in Toronto but every time I go I explore different areas of inner city Toronto. Me and my best friend that's Buffalonian walk like 10-15km/day doing Toronto walkabouts.

I probably have more familiarity with Toronto proper than the woman in the article or most of the GTA people living day to day in the suburbs claiming to be Torontonian

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Truenorth, my Dad and his siblings were all born and raised in Toronto just off Danforth near Coxwell station. My grandfather was from Leslieville. I've never lived in Toronto but every time I go I explore different areas of inner city Toronto. Me and my best friend that's Buffalonian walk like 10-15km/day doing Toronto walkabouts.

I probably have more familiarity with Toronto proper than the woman in the article or most of the GTA people living day to day in the suburbs claiming to be Torontonian

Sooooo what's your pick for best patty? Or your dad's?

I say this because literally everybody growing up in Toronto has at some point commuted with nothing but $1-2 in their pocket and a TTC token or pass. It's one of those unique experiences that separate the urban from the suburban.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by casper

I see the problem. Cactus Club locations in Edmonton are somewhat suburban. West Edmonton Mall is not quite the same vibe of a Cactus Club in downtown Vancouver.

Her mistake was not moving to Saskatoon. Their Cactus Club is in the CBD.

Calgary’s got one right on Stephen Ave DT.

[O-tacular]

I liked political scientist Duane Bratt’s take on the article:

https://twitter.com/DuaneBratt/status/16...%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

There's a fundamentally different experience in the 416 where so many take transit. And it defines who you are. It's just definitely not a 905 thing. Easy test of anybody who claims to be Torontonian, ask them which subway station has the best patties. 905ers will all give you a blank stare. Every 416er will tell you their favourite.

Why bring up that point? Because really, lifestyles between any 905 suburb and most cities in Canada, beyond TMV proper, is pretty similar. It's all fairly similarly suburban. So given that, I don't think she really missed urbanity, so much as she missed her drinking buddies at the Cactus Club.

I think public transit is essential for large cities and is worth spending billions of dollars to operate and improve, but I think you're ascribing too much to its role in people's lives.

In the end, I think that somebody who grows up and lives in Brampton or Markham has more in common with somebody from downtown Toronto than somebody in Conception Bay South or Repentigny or even Sherwood Park, AB.

Also, I'd fail your patty test. Guess I'm not a true Torontonian.

[theman23]

That's a really bizarre purity test. I'm pretty sure the beef patties are all frozen and reheated Tastee's anyways.

[niwell]

The “patty test” is really more of an inner-suburban 416 thing. People from Scarborough and Etobicoke will have opinions but I genuinely think my pals who grew up at college and Spadina have no clue. That being said, suburban 416 is a pretty unique thing.

FWIW I vote warden. They are from fahmee bakery.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by niwell

The “patty test” is really more of an inner-suburban 416 thing. People from Scarborough and Etobicoke will have opinions but I genuinely think my pals who grew up at college and Spadina have no clue. That being said, suburban 416 is a pretty unique thing.

FWIW I vote warden. They are from fahmee bakery.

I've seen beef patties in the city, but for the longest time $2 could have gotten you an actual hot dog in the city which was the far superior snack. Never heard of Fahmees - i suspect this is a YUL vs BD line thing.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by niwell

The “patty test” is really more of an inner-suburban 416 thing. People from Scarborough and Etobicoke will have opinions but I genuinely think my pals who grew up at college and Spadina have no clue.

Those folks have their own at Bathurst. Like I said, regardless of where you grew up in the 416, you know of at least one station with a bakery. And it's one of those things you'll only know if you actually used transit, something I'd say is kinda fundamental to the urban experience.

Originally Posted by niwell

FWIW I vote warden. They are from fahmee bakery.

My choice too.

[Nashe]

I was in Jamaica in September and ate at a place called "Juici's" out in the middle of nowhere. Pretty good, though they were so (temperature) hot that it took ages for them to cool down long enough to not burn our mouths.