Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Migrant_Coconut]

SFU students and faculty have had to spend the night on the mountain; at least once you're at the bottom, you kinda-sorta have options.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

SFU students and faculty have had to spend the night on the mountain; at least once you're at the bottom, you kinda-sorta have options.

Nowadays there's also residential and some retail up on Burnaby mountain. What are people who live or work there supposed to do when they can't travel down the mountain due to snow? That won't be a problem once the gondola opens.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The queues aren't on the bridge, they're on the approaches. All they really need is a queue-jumper that merges immediately before the bridge. They've essentially got that on the north side already, they just need to create one on the south side - shouldn't be all that hard to do.

Correct. The bridge itself is smooth sailing - what's really needed is bus priority on Hastings to get to the bridge.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Correct. The bridge itself is smooth sailing - what's really needed is bus priority on Hastings to get to the bridge.

I take the 240 or 241 across the Lionsgate a few times per week and the busses are hardly delayed even when there's rush hour traffic.

All of the bridges in the lower mainland should have dedicated bus lanes or a que-jump lane along the shoulder leading up to them.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Correct. The bridge itself is smooth sailing - what's really needed is bus priority on Hastings to get to the bridge.

They should go up Boundary and hook up to the onramp near Cambridge

[madog222]

This is an idea I had inspired by the project on the southbound approaches. Mainly to alleviate the highway backups caused by the Hastings merge but does help the buses.

NB Hastings on-ramp merges with the McGill on-ramp which then forms the 3rd highway lane, removing the Hastings > highway merge. The would require one new structure over the NB > McGill off-ramp. Built with a dedicated bus lane along the Hastings on-ramp.


Image from Google Maps

[FarmerHaight]

Does Translink keep a public record of what types of busses are assigned to specific routes? It seems like more articulated busses have been running the 240/241 the past few days (after the busses have been very overcrowded the past month plus) but I can't decide if that's simply anecdotal or if Translink changed things up.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Does Translink keep a public record of what types of busses are assigned to specific routes? It seems like more articulated busses have been running the 240/241 the past few days (after the busses have been very overcrowded the past month plus) but I can't decide if that's simply anecdotal or if Translink changed things up.

There's a great resource maintained by what I assume to be very special transit lovers called the Canadian Public Transit Discussion Board Wiki which just so happens to document what busses the 240 and the 241 use (As of April according to the edit history).

Answer:
During peak hours the 240 runs artics (namely New Flyer Industries XDE60's and New Flyer Industries DE60LFR's). You're probably seeing peak hour 240s.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Answer:
During peak hours the 240 runs artics (namely New Flyer Industries XDE60's and New Flyer Industries DE60LFR's). You're probably seeing peak hour 240s.

Thanks for the resource!

I must just miss the peak hours when I usually ride the 240.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Hooknose

Thanks for the updates. There is certainly some planning in the works.

If you will remember (dating myself here) but the first skytrain was to new west. Then a one stop extension to Columbia street.
Then a one stop extension to Scott Road (across the Fraser)
Then an extension up the hill to King George. and now, extension four to Langley.

Poco is one extension. A bridge across the Pitt (with a large bus loop just on the other side) just repeats the Scott Road history.

Remember that 80% of all non ALR land that can be developed for more housing is in Maple Ridge and Mission. Not connecting that to RR just won't be reasonable in some larger time frame. I have the suspicion that RR to Maple Ridge, through some number of extensions and a couple of decades, is realistic to expect.

North Shore is obvious but how about an extension along number three in Richmond to cross the south Fraser with a ginormous bus loop and an even more ginormous car park??

Thanks for the comments , in any case.

Maple Ridge already has the R3, and Delta has the 620. Yeah, they're going to need higher frequencies, but between now and 2050, the most urgent cases needing a train are in the "ring" around the inner suburbs: Hastings, Willingdon, North Van and 41st/49th. King George and Port Coq, maybe.

For now, UBC's the only one with an actual study behind it (North Van-Willingdon's got one in the pipeline), so that's the likely next step.

[Hooknose]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Maple Ridge already has the R3, and Delta has the 620. Yeah, they're going to need higher frequencies, but between now and 2050, the most urgent cases needing a train are in the "ring" around the inner suburbs: Hastings, Willingdon, North Van and 41st/49th. King George and Port Coq, maybe.

For now, UBC's the only one with an actual study behind it (North Van-Willingdon's got one in the pipeline), so that's the likely next step.

Thanks again for migrating this thread.

The ring road you are talking about is actually a kind of "U" laid on its side, if I have it right.

Starting at Park Royal/Cap road, it passes through Lonsdale (either lower at the Quay or higher at Lonsdale and 13th) and crosses at Second Narrows, then down Brentwood on Willingdon to either 41st or 49th (depending on where you want the development) and ending at Kerrisdale.

Is that what you had in mind?

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Hooknose

Thanks again for migrating this thread.

I think we can pretty confidently say that the order of Skytrain projects is as follows:

• Broadway extension
• Langley line
• UBC extension
• Hastings / North Shore / Willingdon line

However, Translink has also announced a number of upgrades from Rapid Bus to BRT, and from regular bus to Rapid Bus and I imagine these will be sprinkled in among the UBC and North Shore lines. Based on Translink's 10-year priorities I think we will see BRT on the Hastings / North Shore / Willingdon alignment first (and it has to happen pretty quick if we want Skytrain on that line in the next 20 years) but that may be the must difficult BRT to implement given the IWM of it all. After that it's anyone's guess which of the following corridors get BRT first or if they get it at all:

• King George Blvd
• Langely - Haney Place
• Lougheed Hwy - R3
• Lynn Valley - Downtown
• Marine Way
• Richmond Centre - Metrotown
• Scott Road - R6

https://www.translink.ca/news/2022/april...ars%20of%20transport%202050%20priorities

[Migrant_Coconut]

^ Pretty much.

Originally Posted by Hooknose

... Starting at Park Royal/Cap road, it passes through Lonsdale (either lower at the Quay or higher at Lonsdale and 13th) and crosses at Second Narrows, then down Brentwood on Willingdon to either 41st or 49th (depending on where you want the development) and ending at Kerrisdale.

Is that what you had in mind?

That's more Fantasy Thread material at this time. Right now even Lonsdale-Metrotown is more of a mission statement; some want an Expo extension down Hastings and across the Second Narrows, others want a line from Joyce to UBC, almost nobody with an actual say is proposing one big line yet.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

^ Pretty much.



That's more Fantasy Thread material at this time. Right now even Lonsdale-Metrotown is more of a mission statement; some want an Expo extension down Hastings and across the Second Narrows, others want a line from Joyce to UBC, almost nobody with an actual say is proposing one big line yet.

As far as I know, Lonsdale - Second Narrows + beyond is the generally agreed upon mission statement, no southern terminus is technically set in stone yet AFAIK for any Skytrain expansion.

Kennedy Stewart was the one to propose UBC-Joyce so that's fairly dead in the water now. During the election, Ken Sim was pushing for the Hastings route so that's a bit more likely but haven't heard anything post-election. Burnaby City Council officially endorsed the Metrotown terminus so that looks pretty likely.

On the other hand, given that the North Shore BRT is officially planned to terminate at Metrotown that looks like the obvious choice for upgrading when the time comes.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by chowhou

As far as I know, Lonsdale - Second Narrows + beyond is the generally agreed upon mission statement, no southern terminus is technically set in stone yet AFAIK for any Skytrain expansion.

Kennedy Stewart was the one to propose UBC-Joyce so that's fairly dead in the water now. During the election, Ken Sim was pushing for the Hastings route so that's a bit more likely but haven't heard anything post-election. Burnaby City Council officially endorsed the Metrotown terminus so that looks pretty likely.

On the other hand, given that the North Shore BRT is officially planned to terminate at Metrotown that looks like the obvious choice for upgrading when the time comes.

Cue several years of councils bickering with TransLink leading to the new compromise North Shore - Expillennium route: Lonsdale - IWM crossing - Trout Lake. Expensive, unnecessary Trout Lake stations added to both Expo and Millennium lines, diagonal route cutting through established neighbourhoods, but it splits the difference between Waterfront and Metrotown. Everyone's equally (un)happy.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That's more Fantasy Thread material at this time. Right now even Lonsdale-Metrotown is more of a mission statement; some want an Expo extension down Hastings and across the Second Narrows, others want a line from Joyce to UBC, almost nobody with an actual say is proposing one big line yet.

Transport 2050 was a really big step for Translink, long term regional transportation planning is something that's done in detail in truely "world class cities". The issue will be achieving Transport 2050's goals on time and doing so efficiently, hopefully somebody with an actual say is paying attention to the studies done outlining the cost difference between North American transportation planning and European/Asian transportation planning.

Even in comparable high cost of living European/Asian countries, projects are completed for a fraction of the budget with the largest contributing factor being that they use less consultants and contractors. With the planning/project/construction teams at all levels being in house , you're not paying for the consultant/contractor overhead. Without that overhead, projects end up being cheaper, but the key issue is keeping the in house employees fed with work.

The biggest issue here is the political differences between Canada and European/Asian countries that have much more long term thinking at all levels of government. The current government makeup of Canada has been excellent for funding projects compared to the previous governments at both the federal & provincial level, however we're only one election result away from a government that wants another transit referendum stalling projects for a decade or another P3 project that ends up as a net negative cost for Translink for decades like the Canada Line.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by chowhou

On the other hand, given that the North Shore BRT is officially planned to terminate at Metrotown that looks like the obvious choice for upgrading when the time comes.

But Translink has also identified the R5 as due for a BRT upgrade. And if I had to guess there is more traffic between the North Shore and Downtown than the North Shore and Metrotown. So maybe the final plan would be two lines with right angles: BRT from Metrotown to SFU, with a stop at a bus loop outside a North Shore line station with that line running along Hastings and then crossing at the IWM.

IMO the ideal situation would be two perpendicular lines terminating at Waterfront and SFU, and at Metrotown and Park Royal instead of one line with a branch at IWM/Hastings.

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Cue several years of councils bickering with TransLink leading to the new compromise North Shore - Expillennium route: Lonsdale - IWM crossing - Trout Lake.

Not a chance with all the development at Brentwood, BCIT, and Metrotown. If there is any compromise, it will be leaving the R5 as BRT instead of building a line down Hastings. A stop at Trout Lake wouldn't expand Skytrain's catchment at all as Commercial-Broadway, Nanaimo, and Renfrew already effectively triangulate that park.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

But Translink has also identified the R5 as due for a BRT upgrade. And if I had to guess there is more traffic between the North Shore and Downtown than the North Shore and Metrotown. So maybe the final plan would be two lines with right angles: BRT from Metrotown to SFU, with a stop at a bus loop outside a North Shore line station with that line running along Hastings and then crossing at the IWM.

Honestly, Lonsdale - Hastings - Downtown doesn't really make much sense to me at all. I don't know who it serves; If you live in West Vancouver you're taking the busses across the Lionsgate; If you live in the CoV or the DNV west of Upper Lonsdale and you're going downtown, you're probably better off taking the SeaBus; That really just leaves Lynn Valley and East of the Seymour which isn't that many people (and not the most transit friendly areas). Meanwhile if you build towards Metrotown, well that serves the entire North Shore.

IMO the ideal situation would be two perpendicular lines terminating at Waterfront and SFU, and at Metrotown and Park Royal instead of one line with a branch at IWM/Hastings.

This I agree with.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Best guess, Expo to Lonsdale is a holdout from the Nineties (when the whole network was going to use the Edmonds OMC) that won't go away because the old guard still likes it. Thankfully, it'll probably be a new Metrotown to Lonsdale line instead.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Best guess, Expo to Lonsdale is a holdout from the Nineties (when the whole network was going to use the Edmonds OMC) that won't go away because the old guard still likes it. Thankfully, it'll probably be a new Metrotown to Lonsdale line instead.

I would hate to see the politics around building a line through the DTES anyway.