YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

A bit more on Fiji Airways from YVR newsroom

https://www.yvr.ca/en/media/news-releases/2022/fiji-airways

[whatnext]

Quick question as I’m sure someone here will know: does AC still fly the A330 into YVR?

[Orcair]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Quick question as I’m sure someone here will know: does AC still fly the A330 into YVR?

Yes, 1x daily to YUL (AC301 inbound/AC306 outbound):

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ac301
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ac306

[thenoflyzone]

wrong thread....

[Klazu]

They said in the news that an EVA Air 777 had yesterday skid off the tarmac. Did anyone see more on this?

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by Klazu

They said in the news that an EVA Air 777 had yesterday skid off the tarmac. Did anyone see more on this?

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/vancouver-snow-eva-air-plane-skids-taxiway-yvr

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by Klazu

They said in the news that an EVA Air 777 had yesterday skid off the tarmac. Did anyone see more on this?

Yes , I saw photos of the Eva Air Boeing 777 stuck in snow on Vancouver (YVR Spotters Facebook page)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/yvrspotters/permalink/8601100516597639/?mibextid=W9rl1R

[Johnny Aussie]

YVR’s latest long-haul intl route kicks off today
AC65 YVR-BKK set to go tonight
4x weekly

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

YVR’s latest long-haul intl route kicks off today
AC65 YVR-BKK set to go tonight
4x weekly

Please excuse my asking; I should know, but is this route only winter seasonal or is it/might it be year-round?

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Please excuse my asking; I should know, but is this route only winter seasonal or is it/might it be year-round?

Winter only, ends mid April

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Winter only, ends mid April

Thank you for the answer. I would hope that there's a chance it might evolve into year-round service, as have other routes. Delhi springs to mind, but of course that's a much larger market.

[casper]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Thank you for the answer. I would hope that there's a chance it might evolve into year-round service, as have other routes. Delhi springs to mind, but of course that's a much larger market.

AC has a lot of flights to Europe during the summer. During the winter it needs to find places where it can productively use the aircraft. I fear BKK is one of these routes. Come summer the aircraft are likely needed for service from Vancouver to Paris or Dublin.

Dublin surprises me. I booked a flight to Portugal in February on Air Canada and the best routes was connecting in Toronto and Dublin. In the summer I was also looking but did not book and the Victoria-Vancouver-Dublin-Faro routing and Victoria-Toronto-Lisbon-Faro routes kept coming up. It is not a star hub and their codeshare partner is not in star either, but it keeps showing up.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by casper

AC has a lot of flights to Europe during the summer. During the winter it needs to find places where it can productively use the aircraft. I fear BKK is one of these routes. Come summer the aircraft are likely needed for service from Vancouver to Paris or Dublin.

Dublin surprises me. I booked a flight to Portugal in February on Air Canada and the best route was connecting in Toronto and Dublin. In the summer I was also looking but did not book and the Victoria-Vancouver-Dublin-Faro routing and Victoria-Toronto-Lisbon-Faro routes kept coming up. It is not a star hub and their codeshare partner is not in star either, but it keeps showing up.

Thank you for the response. Ahh, yes, I can see the pattern now as I could not before, regarding the allocation of aircraft to seasonal routes. Too bad they didn't invest in a few more long-haul jets.
As for your other information posted, It is telling that Dublin is a summer seasonal from YVR, and year-round from Seattle on Aer Lingus itself. Another testimonial to Seattle's larger business travel market.
Regarding the persistent presence of the Vancouver ><YYZ -Lisbon//Dublin><Faro ads, I'm as puzzled as you are, not even seeing it yet. Someone somewhere must think there's a market there.
Could it be, I wonder, considering all the tedious changes of planes and airports, as well as the long extra hours spent flying with its fatigue and eventual discomfort, it might be some low-cost seasonal.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by Zmonkey

Winter only, ends mid April

AC has shortened the seasonal flight by a few weeks. The route now ends at the end of March instead of mid April.

[zahav]

BKK is such uncharted territory for any carrier from any North American city. There's obviously a reason why no one has flown the route, even from a powerhouse like LAX. LAX holds the rare distinction of being a main hub for all three major US airlines, so it has massive appeal. And yet not one of them launched BKK. So I am thrilled AC is trying it, and it's too early to read into the couple week shorter season as being a sign of failure. As others have said, this is probably an aircraft utilization issue. So in that sense yes, it is probably not doing as well as YUL-CDG or another major route, but that doesn't mean it's underperforming in its own right. Time will tell what happens, or until someone with real inside intel educates us, otherwise we're all just baselessly speculating.

I don't personally see more Indian destinations in the immediate future. For the reasons others have said, where our Indian population descends from. Mostly Punjabi, and even if not Punjabi or Sikh, they are usually from the more northern regions. I think the population from other parts of India is growing, but not enough to justify any other city pairs IMO. And honestly, I would much rather have Delhi at this higher frequency with larger aircraft. Daily 777s from AI is something people would have only dreamed of years ago, when scoring India was still elusive. I'm sure eventually AC will rejoin the route, and maybe even properly codeshare with AI (ahem, they are *Alliance partners after all...)

And echoing what everyone else has said on the AC transborder growth. Very encouraging, and long overdue. And very happy to see it on mainline with 737s, and not just Jazz (hey, I'd be happy with some new Jazz routes too, especially since they could serve smaller places). Taking EWR to double daily is smart, a decent capacity boost but more importantly gives way more flexibility for inbound and outbound connections. I believe the 789 on this route originated and departed to BNE? So BNE will be rotating with another route (I thought YYZ but just checked and the 787 from YYZ arrives at 18:51 while BNE departs at 22:50. Quite a long time to remain at gate, the EWR turn was much tighter aka more efficient. When I have time I will do my chart of inbound/outbound wide body AC flights and figure out the rotation. It's actually fairly easy to guess based on aircraft type and arrival/departure time.

I don't like losing any routes, but honestly the DFW flight showed its weakness when it went do to a single Jazz flight, pretty meagre. I would much rather see AA keep up capacity on the route than for AC to muscle it out. Just like how I was content with AC dropping CDG, I was happy it resulted in AF increasing capacity instead of just having it be a loss. Part of what I love about YVR is that other airlines have a real place at the table, and that a domestic airline doesn't monopolize. I like that Air Canada has some niche routes like BKK, DUB, KIX, and then foreign carriers have their own routes like MNL, TPE, CDG, SIN, IST. But then share on the huge markets like LON, FRA, TOKYO, SYD (as well as some smaller ones like ZRH and AKL in peak times). YVR is big but not THAT big, so if there were too many shared routes, I feel like something would have to give, and that could mean losing carriers. Honestly as much as I'd love for AC to beef up YVR even more, if it came down to it, I love the variety of foreign tails even more. And if there's isn't room for both AC and a competitor on a foreign route, I'd rather see the foreign carrier keep it. AC will still have a commanding presence and isn't throwing in the towel with service here. But they are obviously conscious of what works and what doesn't, and aren't going to keep flying routes like CDG and TPE if they aren't working (ie. too much competition). If we all of a sudden lost both carriers on a certain route, then I'd be very upset. And other than routes to China (which isn't even relevant to be discussed in its current state), we have not lost any route outright I don't think? Other than SJC on Jazz?

Last thing, I am beyond thrilled seeing AC put capacity on YVR-YHZ, soooooo long overdue! And increasing YQB. It was really a big blind spot in YVR's network to have no service to either Quebec or any of Atlantic Canada. I have personal bias because of my ties to there, but even putting that aside, it really was a glaring void for the 2nd busiest airport in Canada. We're still way behind the service YYC has thanks to WS, but it's a big improvement. And again, a show of confidence in the performance that they are x2 daily to YHZ for the peak season. 5x weekly to YQB is nice, but daily mainline would be better obviously lol. Maybe it's my OCD, but the fact that we're Rouge-free except for 5 flights to Quebec City is like a pristine painting with a splotch on it lol... As if mainline managed to show so much love even on major leisure routes but then throws those 5 flights in as a spoiler haha

[zahav]

WS also released their updated summer schedule for international (non-sun) ops:

WESTJET NS23 EUROPEAN OPERATION CHANGES – 04DEC22


WestJet during the weekend of 04DEC22’s schedule update filed following service adjustment for Europe, as the airline strengthens operation to/from Calgary during Northern summer 2023 season.

Calgary – Dublin Service operates from 30APR23 instead of 07MAY23
30APR23 – 07MAY23 Increase from 1 to 2 weekly
10MAY23 – 21MAY23 Increase from 2 to 3 weekly
23MAY23 – 12OCT23 Increase from 3 to 5 weekly (23MAY23 – 09JUN23 previously listed as 2 weekly)

Calgary – London Gatwick Seasonal service from 30APR23 unchanged
30APR23 – 06MAY23 Increase from 3 to 5 weekly
07MAY23 – 06OCT23 Increase from 5 to 7 weekly (Previously listed as 5 weekly during peak season)

Calgary – London Heathrow eff 01MAY23 7 weekly flights maintained during summer season, instead of initially filed 4 weekly
Calgary – Paris CDG 22MAY23 – 09OCT23 Increase from 4-5 to 7 weekly
Calgary – Rome Service operates from 29APR23 instead of 06MAY23
29APR23 – 18MAY23 Increase from 1-2 to 3 weekly
20MAY23 – 13OCT23 Increase from 3 to 5 weekly (20MAY23 – 07JUN23 previously listed as 2 weekly)

Vancouver – London Gatwick Seasonal 1 daily flight from 30APR23 unchanged

Following service Trans-Atlantic service to/from Toronto during Northern summer 2023 season are only available for reservation in highest fare (W/Y/E-class):
Toronto – Dublin
Toronto – Edinburgh
Toronto – Glasgow

Following routes Trans-Atlantic routes never opened for reservation during Northern summer 2023 season:
Halifax – Dublin
Halifax – Glasgow
Halifax – London Gatwick
Halifax – Paris CDG
Toronto – Barcelona
Toronto – London Gatwick

Clearly seeing the results of WS's announcement that it intended to base its 787s at YYC, it certainly followed through on it's word to focus ops at YYC to the detriment of YYZ and YHZ (YHZ especially hurts because they don't have another carrier on any of the cut routes except London). YYZ will be fine, some of those routes were so crowded already it made sense for WS to bow out. It's more that is just cements WS's downgrading of its YYZ hub, rather than a material loss of connectivity at YYZ. For YHZ however, it's taken a massive bite out of the international offering, sadly. Glad they still got AC to LHR and EW/DE to FRA, but WS had a nice little mini focus city thing going on there, with domestic connections feeding those services. Looks like they are losing YOW and YYT, so no more Encore at all. Just mainline service to YYC, YEG and YYZ year-round and seasonal to CUN, ORL, YVR and YWG (none of which are daily, with ORL and CUN being 1x weekly). But with the city of Halifax on the come-up right now, I'd be surprised if service doesn't come back from some carrier (although it would be old school Maritime fashion to not get service back and just live with it lol). YEG is loud as &%*& when service is cut, I bet most people in YHZ didn't even realize it existed to begin with lol

As for WS international ops, glad to see YVR service is unaffected. Granted it is only one daily service, but out of all the routes, it's the only non-YYC one they kept, even with BA and AC boosting capacity here. There's definitely some consolation in that, since we are so close to YYC it would have been easy to just axe YVR-LGW and feed one of the now double daily YYC-London flights. It's essentially a natural connecting airport, yet they still chose to keep the non-stop. As opposed to the YYZ and YHZ cuts, which essentially left no real options on WS to Europe other than backtracking to YYC, which would be idiotic (although maybe some deal-hunters would do it).

[whatnext]

Bangkok is largely a leisure route and such a long one will mean a lot of fuel and crew time. Will be interesting to hear how it performs for AC.

[hehehe]

I hope AC and AI codeshare on the YVR-DEL flight. Lots of people would love to connect in YVR from YYC. YVR is a much much better experience than YYZ or YUL.

YVR-LGW is probably lucrative enough for WS to keep in the summers. And I mean, what else would the frame do? Based on the current schedule there's enough space for WS to launch 2 new routes, maybe even three if they really wanted to. I don't think they'd wanna risk adding two more destinations on top of all that, especially with the startup costs and risks when they've already been so established on YVR-LGW for a few years now.

And of course YVR is in the west, so even if they don't make a real hub in YVR WS will still focus on gaining market share and adding flights and destinations to serve Vancouver O&D (and probably some feed from regional BC flights).

[Johnny Aussie]

That was a lot to take in zahav

I think the BNE flights will rotate through with YOW

Don’t forget LAS is going double daily rouge next summer so YVR will be rouge free except for LAS and YQB

Good to see WS sticking around on YVR-LGW (if that is in fact finalised). The YVR-Europe market in summer cannot be ignored how large it i. So looks like 10 carriers again will be flying TATL from YVR. Notable frequency and/or capacity increases on British, Condor, KLM, Air France and Edelweiss as well

Since YVR will be Air Canada’s only Western Canada hub expect further changes as you noted above that will only strengthen it

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

That was a lot to take in zahav

I think the BNE flights will rotate through with YOW

Don’t forget LAS is going double daily rouge next summer so YVR will be rouge free except for LAS and YQB

BNE will rotate with YOW (x6) and CUN (6)

LAS is once again mainline 2x daily 7M8

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Since YVR will be Air Canada’s only Western Canada hub expect further changes as you noted above that will only strengthen it

Yeah, it does seems like AC is dehubbing YYC and consolidate frequencies to YVR. It actually started mid-summer this year, but it's very clear now they are winding down YYC operations, especially for transborder and express.

Starting from YXJ, this summer, then IAH, YZF, PHX, YHZ, YQB, and now a whole bunch of BC/SK routes (may involves some capacity shift to both YVR and YYZ, but hard to tell)

Now, I wonder for if AC will move or split the two remaining routes YYC-YQU and YYC-YMM to YVR? YMM is also served by YYZ, but might be easier to route them through YVR for US or Asia traffic (if they exists).