HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Downtown & City of Hamilton


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #561  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2022, 7:19 PM
BCTed BCTed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
Obviously OVG isn't sinking the kind of money into Copps that they spent on Climate Pledge and UBS, but it's a much smaller arena with a smaller market to serve, so it shouldn't be a surprise.

That said, I fully expect the arena to be pretty extensively renovated.
Copps isn't actually a much smaller arena in a physical sense. But it probably can do without all of the bells and whistles. And the Seattle arena renovation did involve some pretty substantial changes --- they lowered the arena bowl and did a ton of stuff with the roof.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #562  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2022, 3:48 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
Oak View Group, led by former MLSE CEO, would put $50M into Hamilton arena renovation

“HUPEG is seeking to partner with OVG for the redevelopment of FirstOntario Centre and FirstOntario Concert Hall, whereby OVG will increase the minimum investment of HUPEG’s original $50 Million to a minimum of $100 Million for the redevelopment of the FirstOntario Centre, and will bring its considerable financial and more importantly market clout to the renovation and operation of the renovated facilities.”

https://www.insauga.com/oak-view-gro...tKBMv8PGBa4Qnw
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #563  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2022, 2:45 AM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 20,304
Teams angry FirstOntario Centre renos will displace them for two seasons
Team operators say poor communication and late notice of this plan leaves them with little time to find places to play

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...=&utm_content=

Two of the teams that call FirstOntario Centre home are fuming at the city and the group charged with renovating the arena after being told Friday they’re going to be forced out of the building for the better part of two seasons while upgrades are done.

Work will begin late next summer and should take 20 months, meaning the 2023-’24 season and much of the ’24-’25 season will be lost.

“Right now I’m so pissed off,” Hamilton Bulldogs owner Michael Andlauer said. “We won a championship for the city and I’ve just been kicked out by the city.”

“I feel the same way,” said Mike Morreale, commissioner of the Canadian Elite Basketball League, which owns the Hamilton Honey Badgers. “I’m angry. I’m not happy about it at all. The communication breakdown has just been incredible. There’s been none.”

The construction will also affect the Toronto Rock lacrosse team. Concerts and other special large-group events will also be affected.

Until now, both Andlauer and Morreale said, they’d been led to believe their teams would be able to continue playing on site through most of the construction, even if it meant delaying the start of their home schedules or ending early. They said they were blindsided by the new plan because they’d heard nothing from HUPEG, the Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group, the site’s renovator, for months.

However, in an emailed statement to The Spectator, HUPEG said Andlauer was twice notified during informal conversations at Bulldogs games during last spring’s OHL final. The statement cites what are claimed to be verbatim conversations between Andlauer and HUPEG partner Jasper Kujavsky to that effect.

The statement says Morreale was updated during an informal conversation in October.

“There have been conversations at different levels including within the franchises, HUPEG, the City, and the venue managers, in which the prospect of a 2023-2024 shutdown and construction beginning in the late summer/early fall of 2023 have been discussed,” the statement says.

Andlauer disagreed. He said he learned of the decision in a heated phone call with HUPEG president P.J. Mercanti and at least one city employee on Friday after which he received a letter officially outlining the timeline.

Before that discussion, the Bulldogs owner said the last email he received from the group came months ago. Morreale, who received a similar letter on Friday, said he hadn’t heard from the organization for a year until he unexpectedly ran into a member at an event a month ago. But even that didn’t alert him to what was coming, he said.

Both men say they understood that construction was going to be done in pieces as was the case at Madison Square Garden in New York, which might’ve led to some inconveniences but would’ve allowed them to keep playing through the work.

“That’s what I was told,” Morreale said. “But the letter is opposite to that.”

The letter they received acknowledges discussions about that option had been held with architects and construction partners but explains it’s not recomended at FirstOntario Centre for logistical and financial reasons.

This is unquestionably a huge project. Cost estimates have ranged from $80 million to $200 million. HUPEG says it will save taxpayers $155 million over 30 years while creating an updated state-of-the-art arena that goes beyond that had been required in the master agreement with the city.

Regardless, Andlauer said, not learning the plans until now creates a massive problem for him because he’s supposed to submit available dates for his arena to the Ontario Hockey League by next month so work can begin on next year’s schedule. Now he said he has no idea where his team will be playing — there are no OHL-appropriate buildings in Hamilton or Burlington — and by extension, what nights are available.

“Now I’ve got no place to go,” he said.

Morreale said his problem isn’t just scheduling but the similar lack of other workable venues in the area. He said he will probably have to place the Honey Badgers far afield for two seasons.

Finding a place quickly is a problem all by itself. But after trying to get momentum as a new league and then trying to gain traction again after a COVID layoff, he said, starting fresh for a third time is a gut punch.

“To envision another stoppage of two years is concerning,” he said. “There’s no doubt about it. It’s very concerning.”

The owner of the Toronto Rock also received the notification letter on Friday. Jamie Dawick said he wasn’t shocked — he knew a renovation was coming — but he hadn’t been kept in the loop any more than the others.

He said he’s trying to be positive and think about the finished product three years down the road. And since he doesn’t know all the details of the construction timeline, he hopes his team will only be displaced for one season, though there are questions if that’s possible.

Still, having to find a new home just a year after moving to Hamilton “sucks for me.”

“We didn’t think it was going to be to this extent by any means,” he said.

HUPEG said it will help the teams facilitate conversations to find places to play. And communication will change going forward.

“We acknowledge that in the future all tenants and stakeholders will benefit from more routine update meetings, and we are committed to scheduling and facilitating these meetings to ensure communication efforts are enhanced,” the statement said.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #564  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2022, 3:07 AM
Fruitloops Fruitloops is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 166
a real clusterf@#$%.

Either this is going to be a reno to end all renos in the 200m range ( dreaming) or

more dithering from the talk a big game group who just might speed things if they can get their paws on taxpayer money.

This has been slow played for a looong time and in the end IF it gets done they will have no tenants.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #565  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2022, 12:06 PM
Hawrylyshyn's Avatar
Hawrylyshyn Hawrylyshyn is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ontario
Posts: 2,261
Lol did the expect they could use it during renovations...? Or that it would a quick renovation? It's been clear from day 1 this will be a major upgrade and will be lengthy
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #566  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2022, 1:11 PM
StEC's Avatar
StEC StEC is offline
Burger Connoisseur
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn View Post
Lol did the expect they could use it during renovations...? Or that it would a quick renovation? It's been clear from day 1 this will be a major upgrade and will be lengthy
Yeah it seems like the teams should have made plans to find temporary arenas long ago and not wait to the last minute. Yes it seems like communication from HUPEG was poor but regardless the teams knew the "major" renovations were coming. Why wait for emails, they should have had a couple plans in the works to cover a couple different scenarios. This is on them.
__________________
Living in and loving Hamilton since Jan. 2014!
Follow me on Instagram & Threads where I feature the beauty of Hamilton, Niagara & Toronto!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #567  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2022, 3:03 PM
Djeffery's Avatar
Djeffery Djeffery is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: London
Posts: 6,083
I think the point the teams are making is they were led to believe this renovation would be a staged one similar to Madison Square Garden, which managed to be completely revamped over the course of 3 years with the teams still playing in it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #568  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2022, 4:27 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,055
I'm pretty sure I recall seeing it would be closed for many months in an article or something like 6-12 months ago.
__________________
Hamilton Downtown. Huge tabletop skyline fan. Typically viewing the city from the street, not a helicopter. Cycling, transit and active transportation advocate 🚲🚍🚋

Follow me on Twitter: https://x.com/ham_bicycleguy?t=T_fx3...SIZNGfD4A&s=09
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #569  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2022, 5:19 PM
Berklon's Avatar
Berklon Berklon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,129
Yeah, this shouldn't have come as a shock to anyone. I remember reading that the arena would be closed for a period of time.

I think doing an "in place" renovation while the arena is still being used raises the cost exponentially and extends the renovation time considerably.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #570  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2022, 6:55 PM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-burgher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 7,397
Still should have been communicated better. And these "tenants" are actually key stakeholders -- unless the game is to be rid of them eventually, they need to be kept in the loop, closely. Even if it's just to say "we don't have the plan yet"

None of them draw huge crowds so there should be suitable options not too far away. But I suspect we won't see them all return to use the shiny "new" arena.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #571  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2022, 5:01 PM
craftbeerdad's Avatar
craftbeerdad craftbeerdad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: LC <|> HMLTN
Posts: 507
Maybe communication (good thing Jasper lost as an MP) was bad, but not sure why this is a surprise to the teams involved as others stated. Clearly had been hinted at in multiple articles previously. I'd rather have an AHL team again, but hopefully the Bulldogs stay. Andlauer has been aggressive before with his plans and clearly since he's not getting any piece of the pie like his proposal for the LimeRidge Mall site (which wasn't practical from a transit/logistics standpoint and towards the city's tax base), maybe could see him close up shop and move the team (maybe Brampton needs a team again?).

As for whether this will be a decent reno as per Fruitloops, yes this will literally make FOC the second nicest arena in the GTHA, to ScotiaBank Arena. So it's quite an exciting renovation for the area and provides more optionality in event programming.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #572  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2022, 5:36 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 12,731
Moving the Marlies to Hamilton post-reno would make some sense, especially since the renovating company (OVG Group) has ties to MLSE. Right now the Marlies are just lost in Toronto through all the noise of the top-tier sports teams in the city.

The Leafs moved the Marlies to Toronto from St. John's so that it was easier to swap players in and out of the minor leagues - that could still be easily achieved with their feeder team being located 60km down the QEW, and the team may actually be more profitable in Hamilton than it would be in Toronto where nobody has interest in it due to there being bigger fish in the pond.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #573  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2022, 5:47 PM
Fruitloops Fruitloops is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 166
Full of hope this is done right. 2009 first discussed on this thread. 2016 private study undertaken. Soon 2023 and nothing done. In cities like NYC or Las Vegas they would have had this done in a jiffy.

My skepticism arises from the reno announced way back when was in dollar terms at that time. Im sure to get the same bang for the 2020 bucks the price tag probably has near doubled. Not sure if the group has the stomach for that. Again hoping for a first class upgrade...Im from Missouri..show me.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #574  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2022, 9:42 PM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-burgher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 7,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitloops View Post
Full of hope this is done right. 2009 first discussed on this thread. 2016 private study undertaken. Soon 2023 and nothing done. In cities like NYC or Las Vegas they would have had this done in a jiffy.

My skepticism arises from the reno announced way back when was in dollar terms at that time. Im sure to get the same bang for the 2020 bucks the price tag probably has near doubled. Not sure if the group has the stomach for that. Again hoping for a first class upgrade...Im from Missouri..show me.
Considering it was the city trying to get the reno done and dithering over that vs. replacement, that's actually not too bad. They were also probably hoping a prospective NHL owner would fly in and do it all.

In the U.S. it may have been led by private sector interests from the get-go, even just to push the idea. And they're good at wringing money out of governments. Plus, wasting more than a decade is basically half of a facility's lifespan in many U.S. markets, so why wait?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #575  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 6:46 PM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-burgher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 7,397
I didn't see a thread for the team in the Culture, Dining, Sports & Recreation folder, so posting this here. Brampton and Mississauga may further benefit from the temporary reno-victions, though in this case there are no plans to return. I can see the Bulldogs relocating permanently as well.


Honey Badgers leave Hamilton for Brampton after being forced out of FirstOntario Centre, CEBL says
The team will be now known as the Brampton Honey Badgers


CBC News · Nov 28, 2022

The Honey Badgers are leaving Hamilton permanently, the Canadian Elite Basketball League (CEBL) says, after being forced out of First Ontario Centre for the 2024 and 2025 seasons.

The Honey Badgers, CEBL champions, will defend their title in Brampton, Ont., the new home for the team starting the 2023 season.

The team announced, in a press release on Monday, that "due to the closure of Hamilton's FirstOntario Centre during the 2024 and 2025 CEBL seasons while arena renovations occur, the Honey Badgers are being permanently relocated to Brampton in time to begin play for the 2023 season."

The team, along with the Ontario Hockey League's Hamilton Bulldogs and the Toronto Rock of the National Lacrosse League said they were informed earlier this month that FirstOntario Centre would shut down for much of the next two seasons.

Jasper Kujavsky, a partner with the Hamilton Urban Precinct Entertainment Group (HUPEG) — the group managing the renovations — said earlier this month they "anticipate an approximately 20-month construction period beginning in late summer/early fall of 2023."

Mike Morreale, a former Hamilton Ticat, is the commissioner of the CEBL. He said "We were recently informed that renovations to Hamilton's FirstOntario Centre will displace the Honey Badgers for the 2024 and 2025 seasons. Rather than playing elsewhere on a temporary basis during that time and relaunching the team again in 2026, the City of Brampton made it an easy decision for us to establish a permanent new home in one of the best basketball markets in Canada. The opportunity to play in a basketball hotbed and near Mississauga, Toronto, and our Scarborough franchise is a welcomed solution that we're very excited about."

Honey Badgers President John Lashway told the CBC "First of all, a huge thank you to Hamilton... The fans were great and the sponsors were terrific. We doubled our sponsorships reported last year. It's unfortunate that the situation we're in but it's understandable."

Steel Town Athletic Club says impact on kids will be 'huge'

Lashway said "The arena does need renovation in a big way. It's the way it goes. It's not necessarily the way it had to be.

We liked the Hamilton market. We had growing success there despite the pandemic. It's generally been a pretty positive experience there, except for the arena situation which has been hanging over our heads for so long."

Lashway said the team was "shocked' by the decision from HUPEG. He said there were discussions about still being able to play in Hamilton during the renovations "then boom, Nov. 11 we get this letter and it's been zero communication, none. There's far more frustration behind the scenes than I'd care to express publicly."

Vincent Kuber, who runs the Steel Town Athletic Club (STAC), says "I've been upset about this all morning."

STAC runs an athletic development program for BIPOC youth from 14 to 18 years old that includes basketball. Kuber says that in the "summer we had the Honey Badgers involved. They brought a player over. The kids loved it... I'm doing my part to build role models. I'm planning for the summer programming and the Honey Badgers were penciled in as a pretty solid component for this, and now I'm just 'what the heck?'"

Kuber says "what about the Bulldogs? What about the Rock? This is a huge impact on the sports community in Hamilton. How are we supposed to build a reputation, a sustainability for teams to want to stay and exist and be proud? I'd say we took five to 10 years steps backward. This is a huge impact. These kids need these role models."

HUPEG said in a statement Monday that they wish the Honey Badgers well on their move and they appreciate commissioner Mike Morreale's comment about a possible return of a CEBL expansion franchise to the market.

HUPEG said, "Although we anticipated that a temporary relocation would be happening, we wish them well and thank them for their belief in Hamilton."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #576  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 6:53 PM
Innsertnamehere's Avatar
Innsertnamehere Innsertnamehere is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 12,731
The hockey market in Hamilton will be back-filled with something.

Given the renovating company's ties to MLSE, I wonder if the Marlies could make a move down the QEW.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #577  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 7:56 PM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-burgher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 7,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
The hockey market in Hamilton will be back-filled with something.
Definitely.

People around here seem to like to believe that once something is gone, it's gone for good. Sometimes that's the case, but the market doesn't leave if the team does.

There have been a few times the Tiger-Cats were "on the verge" of being moved... in the 1980s Harold "Pal Hal" Ballard threatened to move them to London if he didn't get what he wanted from the city. Bob Young made a veiled threat at doing so too if he didn't get the stadium location he wanted (then didn't have the heart to do it, supposedly). Would the CFL have come back? Almost certainly. In both cases, there was no legit alternative to host the Ticats, but few people thought about that -- it's different with these minor league teams, but the local money will still be just as good when the arena is done.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #578  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2022, 11:40 PM
Berklon's Avatar
Berklon Berklon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,129
It would be ironic if the Bulldogs left permanently as well.
Kind of takes away part of the reason to renovate in the first place.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #579  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 3:29 AM
ScreamingViking's Avatar
ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
Ham-burgher
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 7,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
It would be ironic if the Bulldogs left permanently as well.
Kind of takes away part of the reason to renovate in the first place.
I can't agree with that. The place needed upgrades 20 years ago, pre-OHL. The AHL edition of the Bulldogs wasn't drawing many more fans either.

To me, this is about renewing a facility that has been valuable to the city, above and beyond the hockey tenants.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #580  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2022, 3:39 AM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,055
Plus this will be one of the nicest stadiums in Canada once the renovation is complete. There will be demand for it's use, and the private consortium running the arena wants to make money and so they will fill it.
__________________
Hamilton Downtown. Huge tabletop skyline fan. Typically viewing the city from the street, not a helicopter. Cycling, transit and active transportation advocate 🚲🚍🚋

Follow me on Twitter: https://x.com/ham_bicycleguy?t=T_fx3...SIZNGfD4A&s=09
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Downtown & City of Hamilton
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:02 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.