Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Blah_Amazing]

Transit Station Development:
https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/Citizen...25&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=
Design Review:
https://citizenportal.slcgov.com/Citizen...65&agencyCode=SLCREF&IsToShowInspection=

Address: 335 E 400 S

Architect: Envision Architectural Group

Developer: Wright Development Group

The Basics: 7 floors. 83 feet tall. 0.76 acres located in the TSA-UN-C Zone. 156 residential units and 159 parking stalls. project is requesting relief from the 200’ maximum facade length along Denver St.

Project Renderings:

Additional Project Renderings:

Site and Site Photographs:

Floor Plans:

Elevations:

[Comrade]

Everything is the same lol

[Rileybo]

Goodbye, Betos.

[bob rulz]

What is it about the 400 South corridor that attracts the absolute worst of all designs? Yeah there's other boring new boxes scattered throughout Salt Lake, but with the exception of The Exchange, every single project on 400 South is the same boring, unimaginative dreck.

I really think the TSA zoning "scoring system" was a big failure at actually promoting good design.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

What is it about the 400 South corridor that attracts the absolute worst of all designs? Yeah there's other boring new boxes scattered throughout Salt Lake, but with the exception of The Exchange, every single project on 400 South is the same boring, unimaginative dreck.

I really think the TSA zoning "scoring system" was a big failure at actually promoting good design.

400 S has been a missed opportunity so far. I’m all for the additional housing, but lack of innovation in design and lack of mixed use outside of the Exchange is disappointing for being the main east west street in terms of activity and retail. There’s clearly a demand for food and commercial there with all the existing restaurants and stores, but we’d rather throw up residential units with no ground retail around the strip malls than replace the surrounding strip malls with residential units that are mixed use. In google maps I saw the building to the west of these proposed apartments has “available” signs at ground level so maybe there is still hope for a few of the places. Do these proposed units have ground retail? I hope so. The half block long no ground retail apartments though are inexcusable given the demand for retail in the area. It’s sloppy planning and will make it more difficult to justify ever replacing those existing strip malls around there. The existing strip malls will have no financial incentive to sell their properties if more apartments are built on other properties and demand goes up for their existing retail but supply stays the same.

[Quision]

This makes me sad. Betos was one of the only things giving that street some life (especially at night). If Coffee Break ever closes it's over. Why aren't there higher design standards for such a prominent street? It has so much more potential what with trax and being between downtown and the U...

[Quision]

Kind of a separate note but I wish Salt Lake would do more to break up our huge blocks with pedestrian/light traffic streets. I think Avia/Mya has the right idea but everytime we build a monolithic Block 44 it hurts that. Just food for thought.

[rockies]

To be fair, the 6-8 lanes of high speed traffic probably makes it an inconvenient spot for pedestrian oriented businesses… walking along 400s is uncomfortable and crossing it is a hassle

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by rockies

To be fair, the 6-8 lanes of high speed traffic probably makes it an inconvenient spot for pedestrian oriented businesses… walking along 400s is uncomfortable and crossing it is a hassle

So basically most of Salt Lake City and Salt Lake county for that matter. There are some exceptions, but you walk one or two blocks in one direction in most places and run into this because of the wide street highway setup that dominates

[rockies]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

So basically most of Salt Lake City and Salt Lake county for that matter. There are some exceptions, but you walk one or two blocks in one direction in most places and run into this because of the wide street highway setup that dominates

Yeah. Higher standards are probably a good idea but I don't think that street will reach its potential with the current state of 400S. It's obvious, but I think going down to 2 lanes like 21st S, parts of 13th E, etc would go a long way to 'naturally' encourage better development. Ofc UDOT is involved w 4th but surely there can be improvements to the crossroads/parallel streets. 600E and 800E come to mind first but pretty much any of the crossroads could be turned into amenities in their own right that may attract higher quality development to the area.

Where I live now there are often really horrible (comparatively dead) roads with extremely lively crossroads and parallel pedestrian-oriented streets.

[TheGeographer]

Originally Posted by rockies

Yeah. Higher standards are probably a good idea but I don't think that street will reach its potential with the current state of 400S. It's obvious, but I think going down to 2 lanes like 21st S, parts of 13th E, etc would go a long way to 'naturally' encourage better development. Ofc UDOT is involved w 4th but surely there can be improvements to the crossroads/parallel streets. 600E and 800E come to mind first but pretty much any of the crossroads could be turned into amenities in their own right that may attract higher quality development to the area.

Where I live now there are often really horrible (comparatively dead) roads with extremely lively crossroads and parallel pedestrian-oriented streets.

I agree there is a lot of potential if UDOT was willing to engage in some of the ideas you’re taking about

[bob rulz]

I don't have any hope that UDOT will do anything to improve their roads, but I think there's potential in Salt Lake City improving the cross-streets. Salt Lake City has been making good efforts to improve their own streets, but there's just so many that need improving, it's going to take a long time to get to them all.

[Enemy4thePeople]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I think he means once the zoning change is approved. They're asking for hospitals to be a by-right use. And considering it's IHC requesting the change, I'm sure they'll have no problem getting that through.

Yeah, but I would imagine the city will want to use this position to ask for some design considerations in return. Or they should. I also don't think they should just revise the D-1 zone to include hospital as a permitted use. They should offer a district overlay with the use tied to that. Something similar to the convention center hotel overlay's height allowance. But I'm not a planner so I can't be certain of the legal intricacies that may be involved with that.

[Enemy4thePeople]

Regarding 400 S, I've been thinking of putting together a private Vision Plan for 400 S kinda like that Rio Grande plan. Or maybe more like Life on State in spirit in the sense that it may not be viable at the moment, but it is still worth putting forth a vision for what the corridor could be if any effort at all was put into it.

And as far as ground floor retail goes, we would need more sophisticated developers to enter the market. Utah developers typically only know housing and have no experience with retail and no desire to put any thought into it, so they don't put any in their pro formas. The city might ask for live/works at the ground floor as some kind of compromise, but I'm still of the opinion it's a mostly worthless compromise for a product that just hasn't been proven in this market.

[Atlas]

Other than The Exchange, that stretch of 400S has been, and is continuing to be, a real disappointment. This newest project is the epitome of low-quality, cash-grab development that we see from the worst local development firms. Driveways on both Denver St. and 400S? Come on.

I'd love to see a vision for what 400S could be but, with UDOT in control of the ROW, I'm not optimistic that anything will change anytime soon.

On a related note, is there any proven strategy on the city level to help lower commercial rents and promote the formation and retention of smaller, local restaurants and businesses? Part of the reason these apartment developments don't include retail is that they just can't find tenants to fill the spaces.

[Paniolo Man]

[mstar]

I think all of the apartments that have been built on 400 S are still an improvement over what was there just a few years ago. It's just that none of these developments are great with the exception of the Avia building. Here is just a dream proposal on the 400 South area where all of these "less than inspiring" apartments have been built over the past 7 years of so. If you look at the Site and Site photograph of the entire area, you will see a decent size parcel(s) across the street from Quatro and the new proposed building. So, south side of 400 South between 400 E and Denver Street. If someone would purchase these lots and develop an Entertainment area that would have residential mixed in with bars, restaurants etc. There could be a walkable pedestrian street right in the middle of it. This area is right in the middle of most of these apartments and could probably be fairly successful base on how many people are living in the immediate area. Just a thought. If I had the capital to invest, I would do it myself. . . . but I don't.

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by mstar

If you look at the Site and Site photograph of the entire area, you will see a decent size parcel(s) across the street from Quatro and the new proposed building. So, south side of 400 South between 400 E and Denver Street. If someone would purchase these lots and develop an Entertainment area that would have residential mixed in with bars, restaurants etc. There could be a walkable pedestrian street right in the middle of it. This area is right in the middle of most of these apartments and could probably be fairly successful base on how many people are living in the immediate area. Just a thought. If I had the capital to invest, I would do it myself. . . . but I don't.

There's already an entertainment area just a block north on 300 S (and wrapping around the corners of 500 E and 300 E). There are three bars, a music venue, a few casual restaurants, a few upscale restaurants, a few shops...and a few vacant commercial spaces. Still not sure how 400 S will support businesses in new (expensive) commercial space on what's basically a highway if there are still vacant storefronts on 300 S that already benefit from the better walkability and existing foot traffic there.

I personally don't like walking along 400 S or crossing it. It feels exposed and a little dangerous as a pedestrian. But I do enjoy walking along 300 S. I hope future development on 300 S will feature good retail spaces. 300 S should be the "high street" of that immediate area.

[mstar]

All good points! There's probably a good reason I am not a commercial real estate developer.

[Reeder113]

Here's a current, wider angle of Astra.