General Updates and News

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

Agreed. We has to be more protected bike infrastructure, better sidewalks and more transit lanes now. Council needs to be better and stop kowtowing to drivers.

Yes, people heading to the QE2 or the VG are such a nuisance. For every person living on the peninsula there are 5 people living off the peninsula. There are not enough buses to carry people who leave a car at home. Do you work shifts ?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

Agreed. We has to be more protected bike infrastructure, better sidewalks and more transit lanes now. Council needs to be better and stop kowtowing to drivers.

Is that what is happening? Kowtowing to drivers?

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by GTG_78

"And in Halifax, turning itself into a relatively compact, walkable, climate-friendly city and shunning sprawl has become embedded in all planning decisions right up to the mayor's office.

I get that people get annoyed by things like height limits (especially on a skyscraper site) but in practice I think Halifax has made greater strides in these areas over the last 20 years than any other city in Canada smaller than Vancouver. And Halifax is objectively more willing to make things less convenient for drivers than almost any other city in Canada (+US). There has been relatively little suburban development since Savage has been Mayor and the suburban stuff that did get built is walkable and dense compared to almost any equivalent greenfield developments in the ROC.

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Yes, people heading to the QE2 or the VG are such a nuisance. For every person living on the peninsula there are 5 people living off the peninsula. There are not enough buses to carry people who leave a car at home. Do you work shifts ?

Which is why developing better transit infrastructure is necessary. Expecting every person who lives in the suburbs to own and maintain their own car is crazy.

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Is that what is happening? Kowtowing to drivers?

The city has built something like 3 km of protected bike lanes in the past few years even though the plan was for 57 km network. This seems incredibly slow compared to other cities investing in new AT infrastructure (i.e. all other major cities in the country).

[GTG_78]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

Agreed. We has to be more protected bike infrastructure, better sidewalks and more transit lanes now. Council needs to be better and stop kowtowing to drivers.

More than 80% of Canadian adults own or lease a vehicle. Drivers comprise a supermajority of the population. One would expect HRM to listen to and respect their concerns. And drivers have accommodated changes with key lanes on Robie and Wyse Road being re-appropriated to their detriment.

[GTG_78]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

The city has built something like 3 km of protected bike lanes in the past few years even though the plan was for 57 km network. This seems incredibly slow compared to other cities investing in new AT infrastructure (i.e. all other major cities in the country).

This is incorrect. HRM has built approximately 11 kilometres while blowing through more than 80% of the budget that was allocated for 45 kilometres. It will cost tens of millions more to complete the network as envisioned.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by GTG_78

More than 80% of Canadian adults own or lease a vehicle. Drivers comprise a supermajority of the population. One would expect HRM to listen to and respect their concerns. And drivers have accommodated changes with key lanes on Robie and Wyse Road being re-appropriated to their detriment.

Owning a car doesn't make a person politically opposed to bike lanes. I own a vehicle. But in the city I use a bike at least as much as I drive, and often use transit as well. Few people exclusively use one mode of transport--even people who live in entirely car dependant areas still walk from time to time.

[GTG_78]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Owning a car doesn't make a person politically opposed to bike lanes.

Did I suggest otherwise? No. I am not the one that described drivers as an enemy political class that politicians 'kowtow' to.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I get that people get annoyed by things like height limits (especially on a skyscraper site) but in practice I think Halifax has made greater strides in these areas over the last 20 years than any other city in Canada smaller than Vancouver. And Halifax is objectively more willing to make things less convenient for drivers than almost any other city in Canada (+US). There has been relatively little suburban development since Savage has been Mayor and the suburban stuff that did get built is walkable and dense compared to almost any equivalent greenfield developments in the ROC.

This is definitely true; Halifax has been building in a denser, more centralized, more urban fashion than most cities in the country these past few years. I don't think I'd chalk that up primarily to vision of the mayor and council, so much as a combination of circumstances, including changes to the planning regime, simple lifestyle changes, and an influx of people from elsewhere in the country/world. But it is true that the city is building up and not out, to simplify things.

One place where the city is fumbling though, as this thread is making clear, is on supporting infrastructure, whether we're talking about housing, transportation, or whatever else.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

The city has built something like 3 km of protected bike lanes in the past few years even though the plan was for 57 km network. This seems incredibly slow compared to other cities investing in new AT infrastructure (i.e. all other major cities in the country).

How is this "kowtowing to drivers"? Taking care of road infrastructure (upon which cycling lanes are built, BTW) is providing a necessary service to the city's citizens, or in other words, councillors doing their job (though how much they are actually taking care of infrastructure is debateable). Buses and goods transport also use those roads as well, FWIW.

The city should have built bicycle infrastructure 30 years ago, but regardless bicycle traffic won't ever come up to the numbers of people who move by transit and the personal vehicle. Even cities like Vancouver, with a climate more conducive to cycling and cycling infrastructure that Halifax could only dream of (plus superior transit options), is still highly populated with cars and trucks.

Halifax is now playing catch-up on bike infrastructure, but it is expensive and takes time. I can't say how many km they've built in the past year (though GTG_78 indicates that it's 11 km, not 3), but you're also ignoring the other additions to cycling infrastructure, like traffic signalling aimed at improving cyclists' movement through intersections for example. None of this is cheap, and it all takes time.

Now read an excerpt from Hali87's post above which indicates the reality on the ground in Halifax:

Originally Posted by Hali87

And Halifax is objectively more willing to make things less convenient for drivers than almost any other city in Canada (+US).

Hali speaks the truth.

This doesn't indicate "kowtowing to drivers" to me... because Halifax isn't doing that. In fact it's doing the opposite.

Need more evidence? Read Halifax's Integrated Mobility Plan... it's clearly weighted to benefit cyclists more than any group in the city, yet we still have to read some members saying that Halifax is "kowtowing to drivers", apparently without considering what is actually going on here.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I get that people get annoyed by things like height limits (especially on a skyscraper site) but in practice I think Halifax has made greater strides in these areas over the last 20 years than any other city in Canada smaller than Vancouver. And Halifax is objectively more willing to make things less convenient for drivers than almost any other city in Canada (+US). There has been relatively little suburban development since Savage has been Mayor and the suburban stuff that did get built is walkable and dense compared to almost any equivalent greenfield developments in the ROC.

These days Halifax has shot past Vancouver on the development side. While we have a lot of tower developments here, the city is very picky about where they do or don't happen (a lot of it is in suburban municipalities) and many inner city areas, including some without much character worth preserving, are underdeveloped. On cycling infrastructure Vancouver is still ahead but the gap has narrowed, from Vancouver having pretty good cycling infrastructure in the past vs. nothing at all in Halifax. Vancouver's grid makes it much easier to put in cycling routes that are just shifted 1 street off from the major corridors.

In transit Halifax is still woefully behind, while Halifax has the better highway system of the two cities. Halifax is much smaller than Vancouver but Vancouver builds a new SkyTrain extension every decade or even less. Vancouver is going to be up over 80 km of rapid transit with elevated/underground sections while I am not sure HRM could follow through to build a single small streetcar style line.

We do have some legitimately anti-car NIMBYism here that weaponizes cycling infrastructure sometimes, causing major traffic tie-ups, and I wonder if that is happening in Halifax. The "bike lane politics" are similar in both cities as well with people getting way too worked up about a minor issue. I wish governments and people would just broadly focus on trying to provide as many useful kinds of transportation modalities as possible. Part of what's going on is that Canada is broadly failing to build adequate infrastructure and citizens are directing frustrations at what does get built.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Even cities like Vancouver, with a climate more conducive to cycling and cycling infrastructure that Halifax could only dream of (plus superior transit options), is still highly populated with cars and trucks.

I don't want to get into the old climate debate but the reality is either you're a hardcore cyclist here or you take transit or drive on some bad days. This is not San Diego. The number of truly "nice" days is pretty similar; it already snowed here a couple weeks ago.

Vancouver has its own challenges as well like much bigger hills and mountains than Halifax and bridge and traffic issues that are no better. Both major universities here are up large hills and in general the destinations are more spread out, while the Halifax peninsula and inner Dartmouth are the perfect scale for cycling.

[LikesBikes]

Oh boy so this conversation again...

I don't have the time to go over everything but here are some basic facts of the situation.

- The Integrated Transportation Master Plan calls for 52km of active transportation infrastructure to be done by 2022. Thus far, 40% has been completed and the City is planning on building 2-3 km in the next year. I don't know about y'all, but 40% is a failure where I come from. Whether this is kowtowing to anti-bike interests or not doesn't really matter, to me it represents this Plan is not being treated seriously by the City.
- Compare this to other cities and you'll see this is a pathetic increase (Calgary did 6km in one year, MTL has a plan for 200km).
- Further, as someone not from the HRM orgiinally, the existing bike infrastructure here pre-Integrated Transportation Master Plan must have simply been non-existant as Halifax is way behind other cities in this regard. Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver are all miles and miles ahead of us in protected bike lanes. The fact there's currently no protected bike infrastructure from downtown to the north end, downtown to the west end, or on/off the bridge to dartmouth is sad.
- The need for more bike infrastructure is evident for a variety of reasons - not enough space on our roads for more cars, climate action targets, people living downtown or on the peninsula often don't need or want cars.
- Local residents want more bike infrastructure as evident through city surveys and outreach (e.g., 2018 Halifax Survey, another survey posted here a while back showing locals, especially on the peninsula, wanting to bike but not feeling safe enough to do so).
- If you're worried about cost and don't think we can afford to install a curb for a protected bike lane, perhaps consider how much we spend on other things compared to bike infrastructure. In the 2021-2022 budget cycle, 61 million were spent on capital projects and $6 million for AT infrastructure (though a lot of this wasn't even bike lanes but instead things like the Windsor Street Exchange redevelopment). Looking at a higher level, the Province and Feds contribute literal hundreds of millions/billions of dollars to highways all the time with barely anyone raising an eyebrow at all. Consider the Province has 9 highway projects under construction and the amount of tax money going towards AT is probably around 1% of our tax bill and maybe 2% of the overall money going towards transportation.
- Lastly, people on here act as if building a bike lane makes a street unusable for cars which is frankly ridiculous. Wyse Road still has lots of room for cars. South Park Street still is accessible for drivers. At worst, they take up a lane which usually isn't the end of the world.

Source:
https://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/halifax-...ind-region-promises/Content?oid=29704322

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

The city has built something like 3 km of protected bike lanes in the past few years even though the plan was for 57 km network. This seems incredibly slow compared to other cities investing in new AT infrastructure (i.e. all other major cities in the country).

Where do you live and where do you work ?
Do you work shifts ?
Do you work on weekends ?
Are you an essential worker ?

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Where do you live and where do you work ?
Do you work shifts ?
Do you work on weekends ?
Are you an essential worker ?

None of these questions are relevant at all to the quote you pulled

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary and Vancouver are all miles and miles ahead of us in protected bike lanes.

Would never defend our slow, unambitious AT rollout—and I’m very jealous of Montreal especially—but I wonder where Calgary has gotten this reputation as a cycling leader. The city built 6 km of lanes in 2015—up from zero—and then added incrementally for the next half-decade. It added 11 km in 2021, a good catch up, but it still has only 23 km built towards the 30 km it was supposed to have in 2020, with no plans for more next year. Worse than Halifax, really, when you consider the vast sprawl of the place and relatively smaller proportion of the population served by the lanes that do exist.

The Sutcliffe victory in Ottawa’s mayoral election also doesn’t bode well for cycling there, but I guess that strongly depends on the makeup of council.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

None of these questions are relevant at all to the quote you pulled

The questions are very relevant because there are other issues of much greater importance to people who live in HRM and the importance of getting from A to B depends on why you need to get from A to B, and at what time/day you need to get from A to B.
Only 16% of the HRM population live on the peninsula.
If you live in Sackville how do you get to the VG for cataract surgery scheduled for 7 a.m. ?
Or, if you live near the VG how do you get to Cobequid for a colonoscopy at 7 a.m ?
Age, place of residence, place of work and time of work are all relevant.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

Oh boy so this conversation again...

I was participating in a similar discussion over in the Transportation section and have now found a similar one happening simultaneously here. It is like a case of seasonal allergies that afflicts this site from time to time. A new cycling activist shows up and we all start sneezing all over again...

A couple of points: The HRM plans were not thought out by staff but instead were a production of the cycling lobby. Our august Council merely rubber-stamped what was put in front of them. No thought was given to how it would be done nor what it would all cost. Nor was any attention paid to the potential fallout from those negatively affected either financially or practically. Only now are we seeing the citizenry recognize the lunacy of building infrastructure that remains largely unused, while crippling our already inadequate road network at large cost in a time that we face significant tax increases. Voices are beginning to become louder to stop the madness.

One other point: the author mentions several times the goal/need for a protected bike network. One should quickly realize that this is a mostly unattainable goal. Cyclists will always eventually need to mix with other modes of transportation to get where they are going. The idea of a protected network just for them is largely unrealistic. It is not much different than motorists demanding a separate road network for 18-wheelers because they are scared to mix with them on the roads.

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Would never defend our slow, unambitious AT rollout—and I’m very jealous of Montreal especially—but I wonder where Calgary has gotten this reputation as a cycling leader. The city built 6 km of lanes in 2015—up from zero—and then added incrementally for the next half-decade. It added 11 km in 2021, a good catch up, but it still has only 23 km built towards the 30 km it was supposed to have in 2020, with no plans for more next year. Worse than Halifax, really, when you consider the vast sprawl of the place and relatively smaller proportion of the population served by the lanes that do exist.

The Sutcliffe victory in Ottawa’s mayoral election also doesn’t bode well for cycling there, but I guess that strongly depends on the makeup of council.

I always got the impression Calgary was a fine city for cycling, probably around the Canadian average. There are some good trails there and a fairly progressive council so I could also see it moving more in that direction. The point of including the 11km number though was to say that the amount we're growing by is very small even compared to cities we don't associate with biking - e.g., Caltown.

Ottawa is an interesting case study and it seems like Sutcliffe will probably be status quo which is still better than what we're doing. There's lots of good improvents they're making, especially in regard to protected intersections.