Highways in Canada

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Here in ON, most have been downloaded to the cities. Those that are still around are short. I am noticing BC's are quite long in comparison.

Then there’s the odd 17A around Kenora, signed as such probably at the request of the city.
There used to be other A branches in Ontario too.

Originally Posted by Loco101

I was on Hwy 11B not too long ago along Lake Temiskaming. The only section that's actually 11B is from 11 to Cobalt. The rest was downloaded to Temiskaming Shores.

Another interesting thing I noticed are EDR signs for Hwy 11 using that route and also Hwy 101 in Quebec. There was actually an Hwy 11 EDR sign on Hwy 65 just before the Quebec border.

I wonder what MTQ thinks.
I’ve heard (possibly from you) that non-Québec trucks used to get ticketed on that stretch.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Then there’s the odd 17A around Kenora, signed as such probably at the request of the city.
There used to be other A branches in Ontario too.

I wonder what MTQ thinks.
I’ve heard (possibly from you) that non-Québec trucks used to get ticketed on that stretch.

I don't see why Ontario trucks would get ticketed on that Quebec highway, unless trucks are banned in general. But this would include Quebec trucks too.

Unless the Ontario trucks don't have the proper paperwork to operate in Quebec (IFTA, etc.), though I would surmise that basically all Ontario-registered trucks would have all the permissions required to operate in Quebec.

[MolsonExport]

Wow those BC mountain highway projects are breathtaking. I miss driving those roads.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Here in ON, most have been downloaded to the cities. Those that are still around are short. I am noticing BC's are quite long in comparison.

Ontario doesn't have a lot of lettered highways in general, even prior to downloading. They were mostly small stub routes, rarely longer than 10km or so.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Ontario doesn't have a lot of lettered highways in general, even prior to downloading.

I can think of one big one - QEW.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I can think of one big one - QEW.

Ah yes, Ontario's highway-numbering oddity!

There is a Highway 2A in Toronto as well, though it's all of 2km long, and interestingly, is actually owned and maintained by the City of Toronto despite still being labelled as a provincial highway.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.7946441,-...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

It's a bit of an oddity however, signage on the 401 exit labels it as "Kingston Road" With a local highway 2 number, despite Toronto not having a local highway numbering system:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8008175,-...EAWiuQaOja6z_WDUetxQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Toronto is also unusual in that there are scattered old provincial highway numbering signs around the city still for old highways like 2, 11, 5, etc. which haven't been provincial roads in decades.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.668146,-7...IZjNjso6OqdnaZfyqR3NA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There are a handful of other examples, the Thousand Islands parkway was once Highway 2S, for example, but they are generally rare. I'm not sure if there are any still provincially owned, at least in Southern Ontario.

[jamincan]

Apparently it is numbered 451, but the number is only used internally by the MTO.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Iam trying to understand BC's highway numbering system.Why are there letters after some of them? Why are they not just a whole different number?

In many cases the “A” route is a former alignment. Highway 5A was the original route of Highway 5, prior to the building of the Coquihalla Highway. Other examples of former alignments include 1A in the Lower Mainland and on Vancouver Island, 3A near Keremeos, 7A along Hastings Street and Barnet Highway, and 99A along King George Blvd in Surrey. A recently designated one is 17A at Ladner, which is one I’m surprised the province didn’t download when it was bypassed.

On the other hand, the former 17A on Vancouver Island was never part of Highway 17 to my knowledge. As I understand it, it was established at the same time 17 was built.

Highway 97 and its suffixed routes are a whole other situation, and I think it’s confusing for non-locals.

On another topic with BC highway numbering, I think it would be worthwhile to consider moving the Highway 1 designation to the Coquihalla. I understand why it wasn’t done back when it was opened, but it’s been toll free since 2008.

[Dengler Avenue]

Speaking of B.C., why doesn’t it like signing its 3-digit routes in a shield, like 101 on Sunshine Coast, 395 from 3 to the border (as an extension of U.S.-395)?

[CivicBlues]

What do you mean? Like Hwy 97B?
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.7058745,...y5x6V7m7OzmOhY4FhTX7Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[harls]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Speaking of B.C., why doesn’t it like signing its 3-digit routes in a shield, like 101 on Sunshine Coast, 395 from 3 to the border (as an extension of U.S.-395)?

Because, confusion!

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Ontario doesn't have a lot of lettered highways in general, even prior to downloading. They were mostly small stub routes, rarely longer than 10km or so.

I know they don't have many, and most are short. It is just the BC one that are crazy.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

In many cases the “A” route is a former alignment. Highway 5A was the original route of Highway 5, prior to the building of the Coquihalla Highway. Other examples of former alignments include 1A in the Lower Mainland and on Vancouver Island, 3A near Keremeos, 7A along Hastings Street and Barnet Highway, and 99A along King George Blvd in Surrey. A recently designated one is 17A at Ladner, which is one I’m surprised the province didn’t download when it was bypassed.

On the other hand, the former 17A on Vancouver Island was never part of Highway 17 to my knowledge. As I understand it, it was established at the same time 17 was built.

Highway 97 and its suffixed routes are a whole other situation, and I think it’s confusing for non-locals.

On another topic with BC highway numbering, I think it would be worthwhile to consider moving the Highway 1 designation to the Coquihalla. I understand why it wasn’t done back when it was opened, but it’s been toll free since 2008.

So, 1A would be the current one then? Would 5A become 5?
The 97s are annoying. ABCD...XYZ? Seriously, there are more numbers and those could be resigned to other numbers. They could even renumber things and have some sort of numbering convention, like a lot of provinces have.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I know they don't have many, and most are short. It is just the BC one that are crazy.



So, 1A would be the current one then? Would 5A become 5?
The 97s are annoying. ABCD...XYZ? Seriously, there are more numbers and those could be resigned to other numbers. They could even renumber things and have some sort of numbering convention, like a lot of provinces have.

Other way around - 5A was the old Highway 5, renumbered as 5A when the Coquihalla was built and the Highway 5 designation was moved there.

If you want to see suffixed highways that got out of control, go to Washington State back in the 1950s. They had a Highway 1 that overlapped with the old US-99, but they had all sorts of auxiliary routes. There was a Highway 1V just north of Tacoma, a 1J on the north side of Seattle, a 1W near Edmonds, a 1D on one of the islands, 1B, 1C, 1G, 1F, 1H, 1M, 1N, 1P, 1Q, 1R, 1S, 1T, 1U, 1Y...and so on. And there were multiple routes numbered 1. Thankfully those were all eliminated; 1B became Highway 543 as an example.

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet...5500256:Shell-Highway-Map-of-Washington-

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Other way around - 5A was the old Highway 5, renumbered as 5A when the Coquihalla was built and the Highway 5 designation was moved there.

I meant if the 5 got the TCH 1 designation.

Or, BC could just renumber old highways or use different numbers for new highways.

[MolsonExport]

And then there is the 97C (Okanagan Connector, which then up and dies at 5A, then is miraculously resurrected a few kilometres north of Merritt).

BC loves its 97.

Then there is good old 135A street in beautiful downtown Whalley. https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1958152,...bmQ!2e0!5s20170701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

[CivicBlues]

• Video Link

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Then there’s the odd 17A around Kenora, signed as such probably at the request of the city.
There used to be other A branches in Ontario too.

I wonder what MTQ thinks.
I’ve heard (possibly from you) that non-Québec trucks used to get ticketed on that stretch.

Trucks that didn't have the proper permits to operate in Quebec used to get ticketed on Quebec Route 101 when Hwy 11 in Northeastern Ontario was closed. But ever since the incident with the Hwy 11 bridge in Latchford, I believe there has been some sort of reciprocal agreement between the provinces when there are closures.

[Loco101]

EDR routes map in Ontario:

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=daa0097b2ff94339965a19a01d924855

Check out how the Hwy 11 EDR for between Temiskaming Shores and North Bay as it uses ON Hwy 65, QC Route 101 and ON Hwy 63. I haven't seen any EDR signs on the Quebec side which is no surprise. But did see one on Hwy 65 just before the Quebec border.

[Vantage]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

And then there is the 97C (Okanagan Connector, which then up and dies at 5A, then is miraculously resurrected a few kilometres north of Merritt).

BC loves its 97.

Then there is good old 135A street in beautiful downtown Whalley. https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1958152,...bmQ!2e0!5s20170701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Well, it doesn't die and then reappear, it simply shares an alignment with 5A to the Coquihalla and then Hwy 8 through Merritt. It is signed as 5A/97C and 8/97C.

And Hwy 97 is meant to be a continuation of US-97. It is the intended route for Americans travelling to Alaska. It takes you up to Dawson Creek, mile 0 of the Alaska Highway, and then from there the Alaska Highway is designated 97 to the Yukon border.

[sonysnob]

Yeah, I mean, there are still 22 other possibilities for suffixed routes for Hwy 97 in BC.