General Update/Rumour thread [Urban Ottawa]

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Completely 110% disagree. The odd thing

Like every hardware store?

has left the core as part of the natural ebbs and flows of a city, but with all the new residential will come new institutions, retail and entertainment.

Yes, it will. Eventually.

In the meantime: hollowing out.

It is the opposite of hollowing out. Go sit out front of Farm Boy on Metcalfe at any time of day, that area is bustling.

It is! Anyone interested in urbanism should take note of the benefit of and opportunities associated with being on that fringe between residential and intensive non-residential land uses. It keeps that spot, and other similar locations hopping.

But overall: she's hollowing out.

The area around 400 Albert and Moon will be the same when those projects are finished.

There's that future tense again, but in the meantime, we are at risk of losing the downtown Y. That's a hollowing out.

It's hard to find a place in Ottawa's core that isn't in the process of growing and revitalizing. I have never found Ottawa as exciting as it is right now with all of the investment and growth happening in the core.

It's also hard to find a place to go grab a lunch to bring back to your desk.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Like every hardware store?



Yes, it will. Eventually.

In the meantime: hollowing out.



It is! Anyone interested in urbanism should take note of the benefit of and opportunities associated with being on that fringe between residential and intensive non-residential land uses. It keeps that spot, and other similar locations hopping.

But overall: she's hollowing out.



There's that future tense again, but in the meantime, we are at risk of losing the downtown Y. That's a hollowing out.



It's also hard to find a place to go grab a lunch to bring back to your desk.

Hardware stores are pretty rare in the downtown core of any 1.5 million population region. There is only one hardware store that has left the core of Ottawa in the last decade, that I can think of.

The Home Hardware in the Byward Market has become an ethnic food store. I would say that is far more important and vibrant use of the building than a place to buy a hammer, especially in the core of a burgeoning cosmopolitan G7 Capital. Definitely not 'hollowing out'.

You're having a hard time finding a place to grab a lunch and bring back to your desk downtown lately? Sure, the food courts in certain office complexes have suffered hard since covid, but try walking a block or two. There are literally hundreds of options in the core for you to grab lunch, and they are as good or better then they were before Covid. We have lost a lot of 'food court' fare downtown in the last couple of years, but the foodie scene prevailed through Covid. Nobody is walking over a a few hundred metres in the core to find a good meal. There is no 'hollowing out' of the core. There is natural change that happens when a region moves between one million and two million residents rapidly, and there are some effects from the pandemic.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Hardware stores are pretty rare in the downtown core of any 1.5 million population region. There is only one hardware store that has left the core of Ottawa in the last decade, that I can think of.

The Home Hardware in the Byward Market has become an ethnic food store. I would say that is far more important and vibrant use of the building than a place to buy a hammer, especially in the core of a burgeoning cosmopolitan G7 Capital. Definitely not 'hollowing out'.

You're having a hard time finding a place to grab a lunch and bring back to your desk downtown lately? Sure, the food courts in certain office complexes have suffered hard since covid, but try walking a block or two. There are literally hundreds of options in the core for you to grab lunch, and they are as good or better then they were before Covid. We have lost a lot of 'food court' fare downtown in the last couple of years, but the foodie scene prevailed through Covid. Nobody is walking over a a few hundred metres in the core to find a good meal. There is no 'hollowing out' of the core. There is natural change that happens when a region moves between one million and two million residents rapidly, and there are some effects from the pandemic.

A place to buy a hammer is useful. When I lived in the market I went to that Home Hardware fairly often to buy filters for the fan coil unit, kitchen stuff, hardware, etc. You increasingly have to drive to the burbs to get the most basic goods, which is not true in most larger cities.

There is no conceivable way dining options in the core are as good or better than before COVID. The few survivors have cut back their menus. Most locations that used to have restaurants are gone. Most of the food trucks are gone.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by acottawa

A place to buy a hammer is useful. When I lived in the market I went to that Home Hardware fairly often to buy filters for the fan coil unit, kitchen stuff, hardware, etc. You increasingly have to drive to the burbs to get the most basic goods, which is not true in most larger cities.

There is no conceivable way dining options in the core are as good or better than before COVID. The few survivors have cut back their menus. Most locations that used to have restaurants are gone. Most of the food trucks are gone.

It's useful, sure, but is the core being 'hollowed out' because you have to travel down bank or wellington a couple of kilometers to buy that hammer, or ride a train a few stops in the very near future? I am from Calgary and there is only one hardware store in the entire core, but that's normal for a large city the size of Calgary or Ottawa.

I am not arguing that food options are better in Ottawa are as good or better than Covid, I'm arguing that the food options are not 'hollowed out' and people in the core have high quality food available within easy walking distance.

[movebyleap]

...and that is why I love Montreal. Little urban hardware stores every other block, nestled among cafes and apartments. In Ottawa it's all about criss crossing the city from east to west, from north to south in order to purchase, say, bird food, avocado and some lightbulbs.

[lrt's friend]

downtown Ottawa has changed a lot in my lifetime. For the most part, shopping diversity has plummeted. We have seen how people used to go downtown for that diversity and now they have to go to the suburbs. The trend towards big box stores is a big part of this. They don't fit the downtown environment. The smaller stores that used to exist downtown are simply not competitive.

I believe that a hardware store is something that everybody needs sooner or later (that is why there used to be multiple hardware stores in Centretown), just as most people need a place that sells appliances, something that used to be stocked in downtown department stores. Likewise furniture. A lot of these stores are not conveniently located in the suburbs near transit. When a variety of services are not convenient, how does this promote an urban lifestyle?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

downtown Ottawa has changed a lot in my lifetime. For the most part, shopping diversity has plummeted. We have seen how people used to go downtown for that diversity and now they have to go to the suburbs. The trend towards big box stores is a big part of this. They don't fit the downtown environment. The smaller stores that used to exist downtown are simply not competitive.

I believe that a hardware store is something that everybody needs sooner or later (that is why there used to be multiple hardware stores in Centretown), just as most people need a place that sells appliances, something that used to be stocked in downtown department stores. Likewise furniture. A lot of these stores are not conveniently located in the suburbs near transit. When a variety of services are not convenient, how does this promote an urban lifestyle?

This is very true. The whole point of urban living is that you don't have to go a few kilometres out of the core to meet your day to day needs.

In terms of shopping moving to the suburbs, I think that is part of a bigger retail trend that has happened everywhere. Big box dominated by a few big chains took over the market everywhere (though the complete lack of an actual shopping experience is part of the reason why they are now losing market share to online). Part of that is also due to policy - our tax system actually rewards retailers for building cheap, disposable buildings surrounded by a sea of parking. Some changes in that regard would definitely shift the "competitive balance".

That said, in terms of shopping experience and diversity of offerings, downtown still easily beats the power centres that repeat over and over in our suburbs.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by movebyleap

...and that is why I love Montreal. Little urban hardware stores every other block, nestled among cafes and apartments. In Ottawa it's all about criss crossing the city from east to west, from north to south in order to purchase, say, bird food, avocado and some lightbulbs.

Where my kid lives in Montreal there is a small neighbourhood hardware store barely a five-minute walk away.

Obviously I don't go there to buy basic tools, but when I am doing work there, sometimes I need a specific thing that only a hardware store has like, say, a certain size of anchor plugs to stabilize screws in drywall. I'd hate to have to hop into a car and drive 20 minutes out (not counting traffic) to Ville St-Laurent just for that.

And let's not even mention how that would go without a car.

There is also an urban Canadian Tire about 3-4 bus stops away from my kid's apartment.

[postingaboutottawa]

You can very easily get lightbulbs and pet food in centretown, part of the situation isn't suburban big box stores but large format shoppers which have most household goods and basic food options at a better price than any small format owner operated place can compete with.

If there is a real hollowing out its not food options or specialty stores but venues and not gentrified bars

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Hardware stores are pretty rare in the downtown core of any 1.5 million population region. There is only one hardware store that has left the core of Ottawa in the last decade, that I can think of.

In my time in Ottawa, we've lost hardware stores on Elgin, in the Market, on Beechwood, and the Kent Canadian Tire.

You're having a hard time finding a place to grab a lunch and bring back to your desk downtown lately?

Yes.

Sure, the food courts in certain office complexes have suffered hard since covid, but try walking a block or two. There are literally hundreds of options in the core for you to grab lunch,

There are not literally hundreds.

[yotajoe]

Originally Posted by postingaboutottawa

If there is a real hollowing out its not food options or specialty stores but venues and not gentrified bars

Couldn't agree more with this.

Venues and bars are lacking so hard in Centertown its not even funny, even Barrymores is gone now.

[nredding]

As a Glebe homeowner I find my neighborhood Home Hardware to be really convenient. Many of my expenditures are for less than $10 when I need a particular screw or some such small item.

[Uhuniau]

Oh, and on the food downtown thing - I'm not overly concerned about that. It has massive ebbs and flows at the best of times, let alone during and in the wake of the pandemic.

But the loss of small commercial spaces as everything at-grade gets rebuilt as Shoppers-sized spaces, the losses in institutional space, the fact we are I think the biggest Canadian city without a hospital actually in the city centre except in the most expansive sense... it all adds up.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by postingaboutottawa

You can very easily get lightbulbs and pet food in centretown, part of the situation isn't suburban big box stores but large format shoppers which have most household goods and basic food options at a better price than any small format owner operated place can compete with.

The large format shoppers (and larger convenience stores) have at best one or two thing per category, which is hardly a replacement for the hardware stores, pet food stores, discount department stores, etc.

[acottawa]

I lived in the market 2004-2009 without a car.

At that time, there was a hardware store, the Bay at the time carried a general range of goods, as did the sears, there was a zellers downtown, there were also night spots of various types, movie theatres, etc. There were also a few furniture stores at different price points and a few stores that sold electronics.

It was actually quite rare that I had to leave the market/downtown area, usually for something big ticket or Ikea.

Now I think it is a totally different situation. Almost all of the things on my list above you have to go to the suburbs for.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The large format shoppers (and larger convenience stores) have at best one or two thing per category, which is hardly a replacement for the hardware stores, pet food stores, discount department stores, etc.

When discount stores were modest in size, it was possible for them to be downtown. There was a Woolworth's, Zellers and Metropolitan Store on Sparks Street, Woolworth's, Metropolitan and Kresge's (the precursor of Kmart) on Rideau. There was a hardware store right next to Ogilvy's on Rideau for decades and another on Bank north of Gladstone, also for decades. I guess, when the owners retired, there was nothing to replace them.

Downtown is not hollowing out in one sense, because there is the most people living downtown since the 1940s or 1950s, but the selection of stores (beyond fashion and few other categories) and entertainment has declined and does not match the influx of new residents. Thankfully, the issue of downtown being a food desert has slowly been resolved.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

In my time in Ottawa, we've lost hardware stores on Elgin, in the Market, on Beechwood, and the Kent Canadian Tire.



Yes.



There are not literally hundreds.

Except...there ARE literally hundreds of places to grab food. Just in Downtown/Centretown between Bronson and Elgin, and north of the 417, you have 236 places on this incomplete list I just hacked out in a few minutes. Go a few blocks in any direction outside of that box and you have hundreds more.

Tim Horton's
Mcdonalds
Starbucks
Marcellos
Bridghead
Subway
Harvey's
Pizza Pizza
The Ministry of Coffee
Happy Goat
Manhattan's
Creperie Rim
Riviera
D'Arcy McGees
Little Victories
Edoko
Nandos
Fattoush Lady
Taste of Mediterranean
Grill 41
Beckta
Browns
Clocktower
Genji
Johnny Farina
Zak's Elgin
Chef on Wheels
The Whalesbone
Deacon Brodies
Big Daddie's
Oriental House
German Doner Kebab
Ginza Ramen & Sushi
Uncle Tetsu
Harmon's
Maclaren's
Sir John A
Town
Citizen
House of Georgie
Happy Fish
Pure Kitchen
Charlotte
Al's Steakhouse
Eden's Cafe
Lemongrass
The Waverley
Giulia
The Captain's Boil
Stay Gold
The Lietenant's Pump
Gitanes
The Manx
Elgin Street Diner
El Camino
St. Louis
Datsun
Elgin Beer Project
Le Moulin de Provence
Shawarma Express
Mad Radish
Cocotte
Asian Bistro
Pico Pizza
Colonnade Pizza
Farm Boy
Russell's Lounge
Mamma Teresa
Union Local 613
T's Pub
Buyers + Cellars
Prohibition
Trofi
Arlo
J:unique Kitchen
Seoul Dog
Dosa & Curries
Grounded Kitchen
Tosca
Thali
Jinsei Ramen
Booster Juice
A&W
Bar Robo
Green Rebel
Queen St. Fare
Sen Kitchen
Aiana
Bier Markt
Five Nights at Freddy's
Kebob Kebob
Asian Gourmet
Stolen Goods
Freshii
Sushi Shop
Nate's Deli
Palermo Express
Fiazza
Rabbit Hole
Brixton's
The Office Resto Pub
Jackalope
Hideway Adventure House
Mulligan's Golf Bar
Le Monde
Rideau Club (for the rich)
Mumbai Masala
Juice Monkey
Afterlight
City at Night
C'est Japon
Toro Taqueria
Sansotei Ramen
Gogiya
Eggspectation
Bread & Sons
Roast N Curries
Burrito Sensei
Sip Tea
New King Shawarma
Magic Molecule
T&D Chips
Afghani Kabob
B&B's Chips
Yang's
Yunshang
Gabriels
Atomic Rooster
Great Canadian Poutinerie
The Gilmour
Burger's n Fries Forever
Gongfu Bao
Thimblecakes
Shawarma King
Social Thai
Fauna
Moo Shu
Talai Thai
Meow! That's Hot
Arlington Five
Wilf & Adas
Gogiya Sushi n Poke
Real Fruit Bubble Tea
Pizza Nerds
Flora Hall
KFC
Shawarma Palace
Three Tarts
Hanabi
Bramasole
Pizzeria da Rommolo
Dumpling? Dumpling!
Wolf Down
Tamis Cafe
Island Grill
2 For 1 Pizza
The Royal Oak
Viet Thai
Cheese it Pizza
Takeout King
Coco Fresh
The Greek Souvlaki Shack
Desi Tiffin Dhaba
Euro Mex Resto
Saigon Pho
Tacolot
Asian Kitchen
Kyoto Sushi
Paradise Poke
Cafe Delice
Manhattan Handmade Burgers
3 Brewers
Teriyaki Experience
Red Pepper Thai-Viet
Rice & Roll
Swizzles
Gooney's Sandwiches
Euro Bistro
Yimin Dim Sum
Aroma Meze
North & Navy
Ceylonta
Subito
Falafel Scoop
Aux Bons Poivrons
Mazarine
On Rice
Angry Dragonz
Green Rebel
Spin Kitchen
Delikat Cafe
Prova Bar & Kitchen
Lift Resto Lounge
Copper Branch
Baton Rouge
Madison's
Fatneck's Halal Burgers
Shawarma Andolos
Pour Boy
Bronson's Pizza
2 Bites Shawarma
BBQ Golden Grill
The Vanitea Room
Ricardo's Pizza
Occo Kitchen
Arthouse
La Fiesta Latina
Desert First
Ottawa Kebab
True Loaf
The Curry Palace
Iham Injera
Le Poisson Bleu
Vip Karaoke Bar
Jadeland
Mekong
Ciao Italia
Rangoon
Yen Fung Ding
Saigon Boy
Yang Sheng
Bronson Pizza
Centretown Donair
Jax
Papa Joes
Burrito Gringo
Subway
Harvey's

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I lived in the market 2004-2009 without a car.

At that time, there was a hardware store, the Bay at the time carried a general range of goods, as did the sears, there was a zellers downtown, there were also night spots of various types, movie theatres, etc. There were also a few furniture stores at different price points and a few stores that sold electronics.

It was actually quite rare that I had to leave the market/downtown area, usually for something big ticket or Ikea.

Now I think it is a totally different situation. Almost all of the things on my list above you have to go to the suburbs for.

Does HBC have a hardware section? Do they still sell furniture and appliances?

If so, they are just about the only game in town.

I've said this many times before, but look at the services and retail options in a suburb of 100k v. the inner-urban area. It's frustrating how the car oriented areas have so many options while the urban area where people walk and take transit has very few options.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Does HBC have a hardware section? Do they still sell furniture and appliances?

If so, they are just about the only game in town.

I've said this many times before, but look at the services and retail options in a suburb of 100k v. the inner-urban area. It's frustrating how the car oriented areas have so many options while the urban area where people walk and take transit has very few options.

I don't think HBC has had a hardware section within my memory. I am not sure if they still sell furniture. I was in the small appliance section recently and it is much diminished from what it used to be. Perhaps their plan to reopen Zellers would put more regular household items in their stores.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I don't think HBC has had a hardware section within my memory. I am not sure if they still sell furniture. I was in the small appliance section recently and it is much diminished from what it used to be. Perhaps their plan to reopen Zellers would put more regular household items in their stores.

That's too bad. Seems they are missing out on much needed services. Instead, they are doubling down on the oversaturated clothing market.