Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[thurmas]

if I was a time traveler I would love to have kept Jarry park for the expos and just renovate and build it up. I would have had empire stadium renovated in the 80s instead of going with bc place. commonwealth would have kept at its original 43,000 capacity in 1978 and Alouettes would have been playing out of Molson in the 80s instead of the Big o and likely would not have folded from 86 to 95. Even the Argos I would have kept at CNE and just renovated it or moved to varsity and have the jays build a baseball only park in 89.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thurmas

if I was a time traveler I would love to have kept Jarry park for the expos and just renovate and build it up. I would have had empire stadium renovated in the 80s instead of going with bc place. commonwealth would have kept at its original 43,000 capacity in 1978 and Alouettes would have been playing out of Molson in the 80s instead of the Big o and likely would not have folded from 86 to 95. Even the Argos I would have kept at CNE and just renovated it or moved to varsity and have the jays build a baseball only park in 89.

I don't agree with any of that aside from the Commonwealth expansion. No one can read the future, all the new stadiums were warranted. There was a definite outpouring of support for the SkyDome to be constructed which had been going on for years, unfortunately the timing was off.

[WhipperSnapper]

The Ex would be a terrible football stadium. The south stands were configured around home plate. Nothing there would be salvageable. The sheltered Grandstand was built in an arc as well.

BMO is superior in every way.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The Ex would be a terrible football stadium. The south stands were configured around home plate. Nothing there would be salvageable. The sheltered Grandstand was built in an arc as well.

BMO is superior in every way.

I'm pretty sure the sheltered grandstand at the Ex was the main part of the stadium before the southside was rebuilt for the Jays.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I'm pretty sure the sheltered grandstand at the Ex was the main part of the stadium before the southside was rebuilt for the Jays.

Here's how it looked before being expanded for baseball, in 1975 (first photo) when the Argos were the lone tenant (1959-74). Capacity was 33,135.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

They also have TV contracts which add up to something like 13+ billion dollars. Across 30 teams that is 455 million per team per year (wikipedia was my source.) That's just a wee bit more than the 50 million CAD divided up by 8 teams I see for the CFL.

Putting that in perspective with respect to construction costs. Minnesota's stadium was $1.061billion. Mosaic Stadium was $278million. Doing some math, I can come out with a TV Revenue years of 2.33 for Minnesota and 44.48 years for Mosaic stadium.

A billion dollar stadium to an NFL team doesn't really seem like a big deal.

I could totally be wrong on the numbers, but that is what I found.

Seems the NFL could play on a high-school football field then.

NFL has all that TV revenue, yet force tax payers to pay a large portion (or all) of their giant, under-utilized stadiums. Maddening, really.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I'm pretty sure the sheltered grandstand at the Ex was the main part of the stadium before the southside was rebuilt for the Jays.

I didn't mean the Grandstand was built for the Blue Jays. My point was it wasn't designed for football either. It was built for the Canadian National Exhibition shows to replace the one that burnt down. To say the Argos were the lone tenant before the Blue Jays is inaccurate eventhough the CNE is only two weeks a year. The shows ceased not long before the Blue Jays modifications started

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I didn't mean the Grandstand was built for the Blue Jays. My point was it wasn't designed for football either. It was built for the Canadian National Exhibition shows to replace the one that burnt down. To say the Argos were the lone tenant before the Blue Jays is inaccurate eventhough the CNE is only two weeks a year.

Exhibition Stadium in its pre-1976 configuration was just fine for football, though. The stands were well oriented to the field. It looks to me like you would have a great view from anywhere except the sections at either end of the main stand which were past the end of the field. Even post 1976 it was really mainly the end zone seats that were less than ideal, the ones between the goal lines were good.

BMO's main advantage (other than being newer) is basically the fact that all stands are covered.

[WhipperSnapper]

The scale (length) and thus the direction the seats are facing is totally off compared to a purpose built football stadium.

I agree BMO's main advantage is that all the stands are covered but, I also stand by BMO being vastly superior in every way having sat many times in the EX Grandstand and a handiful of times at BMO. I'm not commenting on the sight lines as it was long after the baseball reconfiguration which may have pushed the football field even further away from the stands. BMO's built environment and amenities are bare bones but, it's downright luxurious compared to those stands.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The scale (length) and thus the direction the seats are facing is totally off compared to a purpose built football stadium.

I agree BMO's main advantage is that all the stands are covered but, I also stand by BMO being vastly superior in every way having sat many times in the EX Grandstand and a handiful of times at BMO. I'm not commenting on the sight lines as it was long after the baseball reconfiguration which may have pushed the football field even further away from the stands. BMO's built environment and amenities are bare bones but, it's downright luxurious compared to those stands.

You're comparing across eras, though. Of course the 21st century venue, a time when attending pro sports events tend to be a somewhat luxurious, high end event, is going to be much nicer than the one from the 50s when most of the crowd in attendance would have been perfectly fine with pissing in a giant trough from their army experiences. Exhibition Stadium would have been pretty good by the midcentury standards of its time.

I also disagree with your contention about the orientation of the main grandstand. The seats between the end lines are 100% normally oriented by football standards. It is very similar to most any modern stadium in terms of curvature (BC Place, IG Field, etc.). Obviously things changed significantly after the 1976 reconfiguration. It got much worse at that point, but the stadium was never originally designed for that type of use.

Considering the massive stand that was built in 1976 to accommodate baseball, it's interesting that Toronto didn't just build a standalone ballpark to house the Jays in their early years. I doubt it would have cost much more money, and it would have made for a better experience for football and baseball fans alike.

[thewave46]

I guess the Jays were a pretty unknown commodity in the 1970s and their staying power was still an open question. It wasn’t until the late ‘80s that they were viewed as a permanent fixture of the city and that they should have a stadium worthy of that.

A mid ‘70s venue would have been some sort of multipurpose fixed dome thing; not exactly an inexpensive proposition for the era.

An open grandstand at an existing site was the least big commitment.

Sure, we can look back with 20/20 vision and think Skydome was oversized/aesthetically not baseball but given the alternatives of the era, it is a pretty decent venue that will still work for decades to come.

Better that than imploding some weird ‘70s contraption a couple of decades after it was built, anyway.

[Coldrsx]

Rogers Place and ICE District has a new outdoor 'stadium'/venue.


https://twitter.com/JWMarriottEdm/st...46286354792449

[Echoes]

Saskatoon city council chooses parking lot north of Midtown shopping centre for proposed new downtown arena



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...rena-1.6652737

[esquire]

^ No brainer, at least in terms of site choice. I am of the view that plazas tend to be overrated and are seldom used as much as expected, but that plaza in front of the arena somehow works.

Of course, this doesn't change my opinion that SaskPlace is still good for at least another 20 years.

[Coldrsx]

Awesome site and concept plan.

Any idea of the rinks capacity?

[Base]

Originally Posted by coldrsx

awesome site and concept plan.

Any idea of the rinks capacity?

~15,000

[Coldrsx]

That's fantastic for the city and future options.

Meanwhile at Rogers Place/ICE District, the plaza is really coming together (finally).


Thommyjo on SRC
https://edmonton.skyrisecities.com/f...4#post-1882991

[Echoes]

~15K as Base said. Basically targeting to match SaskTel Centre capacity.

To be clear the image is purely conceptual. The site decision allows facility design and district planning to get underway.

Many future milestone decisions ahead, including the funding plan and the "go" or "no go" decision on the project - still more than a year away.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ No brainer, at least in terms of site choice. I am of the view that plazas tend to be overrated and are seldom used as much as expected, but that plaza in front of the arena somehow works.

Of course, this doesn't change my opinion that SaskPlace is still good for at least another 20 years.

In the article, one person was quoted as saying it would be at least 6 years before "the ribbon is cut" for a new arena. I'm sure it will be several years longer than that...perhaps as long as the 20 years.

[Echoes]

This Council and the business lobbies are motivated to get this done, but yeah, 6 years is not realistic. My guess is doors open in 8-10 years.