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  #6701  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2022, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Norman Bates View Post
This deals with the construction of the Continental.

While excavating for the parking garage a very large water main was unexpectedly encountered. It did not appear on documents that the City provided to Charlesfort compelling them to make unplanned changes to their construction technique.

Charlesfort sought $6 million compensation claiming the City was negligent, and was awarded $4.5 million in damages at trial.

The City appealed the trial judgement - and won.

Charlesfort petitioned the S.C.C., but the case was dismissed with costs.

So given legal fees, Charlesfort is probably out of pocket somewhere approaching 2022 $10 million.

As well, I think I remember someone mentioning that Doug Casey was dealing with medical issues and in semi-retirement.
It doesn't surprise me that the City's records were inaccurate and/or incomplete and the City was unaware of the financial implications.
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  #6702  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 1:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman Bates View Post
This deals with the construction of the Continental.

While excavating for the parking garage a very large water main was unexpectedly encountered. It did not appear on documents that the City provided to Charlesfort compelling them to make unplanned changes to their construction technique.

Charlesfort sought $6 million compensation claiming the City was negligent, and was awarded $4.5 million in damages at trial.

The City appealed the trial judgement - and won.

Charlesfort petitioned the S.C.C., but the case was dismissed with costs.

So given legal fees, Charlesfort is probably out of pocket somewhere approaching 2022 $10 million.

As well, I think I remember someone mentioning that Doug Casey was dealing with medical issues and in semi-retirement.
That's too bad. The City should have been held accountable here. Charlsefort was such a great builder. They put up some of the best work in the 2000s and early 2010s.

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Originally Posted by Proof Sheet View Post
It doesn't surprise me that the City's records were inaccurate and/or incomplete and the City was unaware of the financial implications.
How did they not know where their watermains are. They certainly knew when planning Stage 2? Was that because Charlsefort found it?
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  #6703  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
That's too bad. The City should have been held accountable here. Charlsefort was such a great builder. They put up some of the best work in the 2000s and early 2010s.



How did they not know where their watermains are. They certainly knew when planning Stage 2? Was that because Charlsefort found it?
Likely it was discovered when Charlesfort found it. City records in the core are often quite incomplete.
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  #6704  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 1:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Proof Sheet View Post
Likely it was discovered when Charlesfort found it. City records in the core are often quite incomplete.
Another reason why the City should not have appealed the decision. Charlesfort probably saved us tens of million in unforeseen costs.
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  #6705  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2022, 5:01 PM
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The case summary indicates:
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Charlesfort Development Limited purchased a property it intended to redevelop for a condominium project, conditional on, inter alia, rezoning of the property. During the rezoning process, a City planner told Charlesfort, in error, that an easement running along the northern edge of the project’s site line, but located on an adjacent property, contained a trunk sewer. In fact, the easement contained a four foot wide water main. The main was three to four feet north of the northern lot line, and it was old and in unknown condition. Millions of gallons of water flowed through it hourly. The misinformation was included in a staff report, and it was corrected by the Planning and Environment Committee at a meeting attended by Charlesfort’s principal planner. A City engineer also noted the presence of the main just north of the property in internal communications, but that response was not forwarded to the City’s planning department or to Charlesfort. The rezoning application was approved without any provision for a below grade setback. In September 2005, Charlesfort waived the purchase conditions concerning rezoning.

In August 2007, Charlesfort applied for site plan approval. During that process, it learned of the contents of the easement, and that the existence of the main meant that it could not excavate and construct its underground parking garage, which was planned to run along the northern lot line. Redesigning the proposed garage and reducing the available parking spots meant significant delays and increased cost. Charlesfort alleged that the City of Ottawa had negligently misrepresented what was in the easement during the rezoning process, and the that City was liable for Charlesfort’s damages, which were approximately $6 million.

The trial judge allowed Charlesfort’s action and awarded damages for increased development costs, lost revenue, and lost interest. The City’s appeal was granted.
https://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/sum-som-eng.aspx?cas=39818
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  #6706  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 2:54 PM
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Choo plans $2B student housing investment, seniors living growth

Danny Kucharsky, RenX
October 27, 2022


Choo Communities plans to invest $2 billion to build 10,000 student housing beds across Canada over the next several years under its Envie banner.

The developer has already invested $600 million to build about 3,000 beds of student housing in Ottawa near Carleton University and the University of Ottawa.

It also plans to break ground early in 2023 on another 900-bed student housing project in two towers at the corner of Princess and Alfred Streets near Queen’s University in Kingston, Ont. Each development costs about $200 million.

Announcements for two additional student housing developments near two other universities will be made next year. This will give Choo Communities about 5,000 beds near five campuses in an investment of close to $1 billion.

“We are halfway there in our acquisitions,” said David Choo, owner of Ottawa-based Choo Communities. “We are building a portfolio of the most modern student living in the country (and) I don’t think it would be a stretch to say on the continent.”

Choo said he is looking to partner with landowners who may have appropriate locations near Canadian universities to build out the additional 5,000 beds.

He named Vancouver (close to Simon Fraser University), Hamilton, London, Calgary and Edmonton among the cities that could see Envie projects in the coming years, calling the planned $2 billion investment in the Envie portfolio “significant.”

“There’s a big shortage of good quality student accommodations,” he said. “We want to provide 10,000 beds that are the most modern in the country.”

Ottawa student housing development

The first Envie development, the 1,100-bed Envie – Little Italy, at 101 Champagne Ave. S. in Ottawa, targets Carleton students.

It was followed by Envie Rideau, which was completed in late August and consists of two 30-storey towers that are about 65 per cent leased. Choo expects the 900-bed project at 56 Rideau St. to be fully leased by next May or September by University of Ottawa students.

Fully furnished studios at Envie Rideau start at $1,700 per month. Amenities include lounges, study areas, an outdoor rooftop area and fitness rooms for both cardio and weights.

Choo said Envie Rideau is helping to dispel the notion that Sandy Hill, which is home to many University of Ottawa students residing in single-family homes, is a student ghetto. “We think we’re helping to solve some of the student housing shortage for Ottawa U.”

Choo said he is building “self-contained communities that provide students all the needs to have a healthy environment to do well in school. We are as lofty in our goals to say that we hope the future leaders of our country are going to come from the Envie brand.”

Astoria senior community

On the seniors housing front, Choo Communities is also building the 350-unit Astoria, a luxury lifestyle community for Ottawa seniors.

It consists of two interconnected buildings of 10 and eight storeys at 130 and 136 Central Park Dr. Units range from 407 to 1,152 square feet.

The development is an extension of the existing two-building Alavida Lifestyles Park Place Community at the site, which involves an investment of more than $300 million.

Astoria will provide everything from luxury living for independent seniors to luxury end-of-life care.

“Some brands operate what they call a seniors' independent building,” Choo said. “The problem is that as you get older and your health care needs increase, then those brands boot you out and you have to find another brand to take care of you.”

By contrast, residents in the Alavida community can be streamlined into other buildings that provide additional services if their health-care needs increase.

“We have the facilities to provide any degree of care that you want and need,” Choo said. “More and more, that’s what the smart senior wants. Once you come into the community, why would you ever want to leave? That’s a promise we make in the Alavida brand.”

The first Astoria building provides independent living, limited access to dining facilities and “the most flexible options in Ottawa” for autonomous seniors. The other building includes a full meal plan and entry into the Alavida health care platform.

“If you come to an Alavida community, we can take care of you at all stages. There’s no brand in the country that’s doing it in the way we’re doing it,” he said.

“Living in these buildings is your own private resort. It’s going to have the feel of a resort. Everything that you need for luxury living is there at your fingertips and within walking distance. That’s the new leading-edge platform for senior living.”

Residents will start moving into the first Astoria buildings in June 2023 and the second building will be finished six to eight months later.

Westboro neighbourhood growth

Choo Communities will also be increasing its presence in Ottawa’s Westboro neighbourhood.

“We have holdings there which account for 10 per cent of the entire urban residential portfolio of Westboro, the most popular urban community in the city,” Choo says.

“We’re building over 400,000 square feet of luxury rentals, luxury condos and a seniors-oriented residential building in Westboro similar to Astoria."

https://renx.ca/choo-communities-expansion-student-housing-senior-community
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  #6707  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 3:27 PM
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56 Rideau Street brings me to the Rideau Centre on Google Maps. Did they get the address wrong?

And which projects or lots are they referring to in Westboro?
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  #6708  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
56 Rideau Street brings me to the Rideau Centre on Google Maps. Did they get the address wrong?

And which projects or lots are they referring to in Westboro?
Choo is Ashcroft. The Westboro canyon of near Island Park is all part of their portfolio and they have more coming up around the convent.

As for Rideau, they meant this one neat to Claridge Plazas:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4283728,...PAF0pX6umM4sLBPMIflxg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207513&page=19
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  #6709  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
56 Rideau Street brings me to the Rideau Centre on Google Maps. Did they get the address wrong?
The Envie is at 256 Rideau. I am not sure if the "900 bed project" is a description of the Envy or another project. Maybe just a typo.
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  #6710  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 4:00 PM
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''Fully furnished studios at Envie Rideau start at $1,700 per month.''

it is crazy to me that rent for a student residence is that high. I dont even pay that much for a 1bedroom and I work full time in a above minimum wage job and even I could not afford to pay this unless I made significant change to my lifestyle and stopped investing in my pension and TFSA.

Completely nuts
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  #6711  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 5:23 PM
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Oh yeah, definitely expensive but student residences have always been expensive (you pay for the convenience of being on or close to campus) and Rez prices have been going up a lot in past several years as well.. a Studio or 1Bdr at OttawaU is $20,000/year (for 1 person), so very similar price.

For a brand new build, furnished with most likely all utilities included, it's still expensive but somewhat relative to the rest of the market.


*That being said, I'm glad we were able to rent a 3bdr for $1,500 10-12 years ago and call it a day at $500/month/per person.
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  #6712  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 5:54 PM
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These are targeted at affluent foreign students I assume?
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  #6713  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 7:03 PM
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These are targeted at affluent foreign students I assume?
Domestic students as well. Res living in urban universities is nothing to blush at.
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  #6714  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 7:14 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
These are targeted at affluent foreign students I assume?
Last I looked (maybe 6-months ago), $1600-1700 is about the going rate to rent a 1-bedroom apartment downtown these days, so with these being furnished and right beside the university, I don't see why these would be targeted at anyone more affluent than the average renter downtown.

Edit: Apparently not just downtown. $1699 is the average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment anywhere in Ottawa: https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/ottawa-on

Last edited by Fading Isle; Nov 4, 2022 at 7:31 PM.
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  #6715  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2022, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by OTSkyline View Post
Oh yeah, definitely expensive but student residences have always been expensive (you pay for the convenience of being on or close to campus) and Rez prices have been going up a lot in past several years as well.. a Studio or 1Bdr at OttawaU is $20,000/year (for 1 person), so very similar price.

For a brand new build, furnished with most likely all utilities included, it's still expensive but somewhat relative to the rest of the market.


*That being said, I'm glad we were able to rent a 3bdr for $1,500 10-12 years ago and call it a day at $500/month/per person.
Living alone as a student or in dorm is still for the relatively affluent. Did a quick search and yes 3 or 4 bedrooms for $500 a person ($525 here) still available.

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/24873794/410-cambridge-street-unit2-ottawa-glebe-annex
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  #6716  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2022, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Fading Isle View Post
Last I looked (maybe 6-months ago), $1600-1700 is about the going rate to rent a 1-bedroom apartment downtown these days, so with these being furnished and right beside the university, I don't see why these would be targeted at anyone more affluent than the average renter downtown.

Edit: Apparently not just downtown. $1699 is the average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment anywhere in Ottawa: https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/ottawa-on
What kind of a middle class student is renting a one bedroom apartment?
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  #6717  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2022, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
What kind of a middle class student is renting a one bedroom apartment?
The average price of a studio us $1399, up 20% from last year. My point is housing is really expensive, and the furnished studio apartments being discussed appear to be at market value, not inflated to target the affluent: http://https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/ottawa-on
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  #6718  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2022, 1:16 PM
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Remember how Envie Champagne was "condos" that people would buy and rent out to students. That was a strange concept.
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  #6719  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2022, 1:18 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Remember how Envie Champagne was "condos" that people would buy and rent out to students. That was a strange concept.
Only the taller tower if memory serves
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  #6720  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2022, 1:36 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Remember how Envie Champagne was "condos" that people would buy and rent out to students. That was a strange concept.
Pretty common in Waterloo, iinm.
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