Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That Calgary Herald article said something about B.C. enjoying a new stadium. They mean the B.C. Place renovations? That's not a "new" stadium. Other than the visible improvements outside, what was the scope of the project?

Well, there is the completely new roof that now partially opens and I believe all new seating. I don't think there was any interior structural changes but I don't know for sure.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Reading that is depressing. Flames' ownership has done sweet dick-all (unless you count adding some port-o-potties) to improve the stadium 10 years later. The stadium is just that much closer to being condemned.

Not saying it will be condemned anytime soon, but you have to think sometime in the next 10 years there might be some structural issues with some part of the stadium. By that point it will be over 70 years old.

In some respects that's how Winnipeg ended up getting a new stadium. The old one was just such a wreck that was beyond repair in terms of getting it up to code that it was deemed easier and more cost-effective to just build something new.

Anyone familiar with old Winnipeg Stadium, or Taylor Field, or Ivor Wynne Stadium for that matter, will know that these stadiums weren't replaced because they didn't have the latest and greatest light fixtures in the private suites or whatever. The main structures were in rough shape and they lacked very basic fan amenities. They were way past their expiry dates.

Given its age, McMahon Stadium is getting to that point.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

In some respects that's how Winnipeg ended up getting a new stadium. The old one was just such a wreck that was beyond repair in terms of getting it up to code that it was deemed easier and more cost-effective to just build something new.

Anyone familiar with old Winnipeg Stadium, or Taylor Field, or Ivor Wynne Stadium for that matter, will know that these stadiums weren't replaced because they didn't have the latest and greatest light fixtures in the private suites or whatever. The main structures were in rough shape and they lacked very basic fan amenities. They were way past their expiry dates.

Given its age, McMahon Stadium is getting to that point.

Wait until it's so bad that we can't fix it is certainly a strategy for a new piece of infrastructure. It appeals to both value-oriented (don't spend a penny on it ever!) and those who think bodging a current stadium is a waste of effort.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by esquire

In some respects that's how Winnipeg ended up getting a new stadium. The old one was just such a wreck that was beyond repair in terms of getting it up to code that it was deemed easier and more cost-effective to just build something new.

Anyone familiar with old Winnipeg Stadium, or Taylor Field, or Ivor Wynne Stadium for that matter, will know that these stadiums weren't replaced because they didn't have the latest and greatest light fixtures in the private suites or whatever. The main structures were in rough shape and they lacked very basic fan amenities. They were way past their expiry dates.

Given its age, McMahon Stadium is getting to that point.

At the end just to get old Winnipeg Stadium up to current safety codes was $52 million it no longer made sense to do patch up jobs that costly.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by thewave46

Wait until it's so bad that we can't fix it is certainly a strategy for a new piece of infrastructure. It appeals to both value-oriented (don't spend a penny on it ever!) and those who think bodging a current stadium is a waste of effort.

McMahon has probably passed that tipping point where it would have made sense to renovate it. It got a pretty solid overhaul in the 80s right before the Olympics that probably ended up adding a decade or two to its life. But no one in their right mind would spend money improving what's already there unless it was a TD Place type in situ replacement.

The only question now is how much life does it have left. 5 years? 10 years? 20?

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

McMahon has probably passed that tipping point where it would have made sense to renovate it. It got a pretty solid overhaul in the 80s right before the Olympics that probably ended up adding a decade or two to its life. But no one in their right mind would spend money improving what's already there unless it was a TD Place type in situ replacement.

The only question now is how much life does it have left. 5 years? 10 years? 20?

It'll be some sort of structural/safety issue that will probably seal its fate. If things are reasonably solid, closer to 15 years would be my guess.

I'm not sure if there's a city/university report on the health of the building.

I think that was the issue for Lansdowne Park.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by thewave46

It'll be some sort of structural/safety issue that will probably seal its fate. If things are reasonably solid, closer to 15 years would be my guess.

I'm not sure if there's a city/university report on the health of the building.

I think that was the issue for Lansdowne Park.

Yeah, the south side stands were no longer safe to use. They figured that out not long after the 2007 FIFA U-20 (so it might have been at that point during that event). It was imploded summer 2008. That same summer, the group that came to be known as OSEG made an unsolicited offer to redevelop Lansdowne and bring CFL football back to Ottawa.

I'm surprised McMahon hasn't been replaced yet. In a city that has always had grand visions, always building huge, amazing new infrastructure such as the music venue, the library, the convention centre expansion. Seems Victoria Park would be a great place to build a new stadium, in the heart of the Stampeded grounds. Or if the University absolutely wants to keep the stadium, they could come up with a proposal of their own.

[Coldrsx]

I wonder if they could demo 1/2 and rebuild it off-season and then do the other side with an expanded north concourse and field house?

[thurmas]

Southeast event centre in Steinbach MB a 2400 seat arena cost has soared to $61 million now. The thought of even $200 million for a bare bones cfl stadium in Halifax now is unlikely.

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by thewave46

As for McMahon, eh. For the dozen times it get used per year, enjoy the ambience and put on a warm jacket for the few cold games and drink more, ya whiners.

Seriously, McMahon could use a little love though.

Screw that, I'd rather watch the game from a bar, pay $8 for a pint and not freeze my ass off drinking shit $20 beers wondering if my cold seat will give me hemorrhoids. If you've ever sat in a stadium with driving rain when it's around 4 degrees out it is not a fun experience.

[Coldrsx]

You can dress for cold and plan ahead with a mickey of fireball to offset that, but sitting in the rain is not something anyone should really do.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by thewave46

I'm not sure if there's a city/university report on the health of the building.

I think that was the issue for Lansdowne Park.

IIRC, the North stands were deemed just fine at the time of the refurb and then just a couple years later they were deemed not fine.

[elly63]

How bout some fun predicting the future of a Calgary stadium. Will it be an enclosed fieldhouse, showy like Regina and Winnipeg or more utilitarian like Hamilton. To me if you're going to be building a new stadium and there are no more Big Os and BC Places and SkyDomes in our future, a nice 25-35k dome would fit the bill. If it's going to last near half a century or more might as well do it right in the first place. Or will they really cheap out on something else. Predictions?

[VANRIDERFAN]

^^
I'm hoping for the invention of a force field that would cover the open air stadiums that would be employed when bad/cold weather hits!

You are talking about dreams right?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by elly63

IIRC, the North stands were deemed just fine at the time of the refurb and then just a couple years later they were deemed not fine.

It's still fine. Plans to replace the north stands and Civic Centre are more about modernizing Lansdowne sports amenities than any pressing structural issues. Nothing that couldn't be fixed for cheaper than a new build. They just prefer to start over with modern facilities and of course more housing, which can't be added without blowing up the place and starting from scratch (or I guess, 2/3 scratch, since the south side stands are modern).

[thurmas]

I doubt Calgary gets a new stadium likely just a refurbishment of mcmahon and residential and entertainment district built around it as was put out last year.

[Coldrsx]

Agreed... unless you give that land back to UoC and move it next to the new event centre and as another venue option for Stampede.

#dreaming?

[esquire]

Fargodome is an example of a covered stadium built somewhat on the cheap, but I don't think anyone would want something like that for Calgary. It makes a bit more sense in the northern US context given when the football season runs there... in Canada, you are really only talking about a little over one month of bad football weather (mid October until the Grey Cup) which isn't really enough to justify a roof on its own, IMO.

I mean, I don't know about you, but I'd never want to give up sunny summer evenings outside to sit under this for the rest of my life:



I guess there are retractable roofs, but I would think that would push up the cost significantly.

[Coldrsx]

No thanks.

Part of the beauty of the game is being outside (except rain).

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That Calgary Herald article said something about B.C. enjoying a new stadium. They mean the B.C. Place renovations? That's not a "new" stadium. Other than the visible improvements outside, what was the scope of the project?

They spent something like $550 million over 10-11 years ago refurbishing the stadium. Approx. $300 - $350 million was spent creating a retractable roof and hundreds of millions were spent replacing all the seats, refurbishing the suites, constructing new club areas, refurbishing all the concourses, new locker rooms/coaching rooms/media rooms, new lighting/sound system plus other things that don't come to mind at the moment.