Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You proved the point as you are not seeing the downside to it.

.

So there is all of this pro-francophone affirmative action going on in private enterprise but no one knows about it but this secret inner circle of anglos?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not so in upper management positions.

That's where the very quiet affirmative action comes into play. My impression is that it has not been enough to achieve the objective, in some departments at least.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So there is all of this pro-francophone affirmative action going on in private enterprise but no one knows about it but this secret inner circle of anglos?

Ever get turned down for not speaking a language?
Ever look at a job posting and see that you don't speak a language they want?

It is not that I feel it should not be this way, but to say it does not happen is no difference than people who don't experience racism and thinking it does not exist.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Ever get turned down for not speaking a language?
Ever look at a job posting and see that you don't speak a language they want?

It is not that I feel it should not be this way, but to say it does not happen is no difference than people who don't experience racism and thinking it does not exist.

Not really. People are not turned down based on their mother tongue, they are turned down for not being able to pass a standardized test.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Probably cus you are not an anglo.

Yes Acajack is certainly anglophone as well as francophone. He's fluently bilingual. His English is just as good as yours or mine and as far as I know he has spoken English since a young age.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Yes Acajack is certainly anglophone as well as francophone. He's fluently bilingual. His English is just as good as yours or mine and as far as I know he has spoken English since a young age.

Yes, I am most definitely bilingual and even bicultural enough to fit in with either solitude.

Though my identity and mindset is very francophone.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

That has never been the job of the opposition in the history of representative government. It is usually the last, desperate talking point of a government devoid of ideas and vision.



All sorts of privileges exist. But being “discriminated” against for failing a standardized test is not the same as being discriminated against for someone’s ethnic origin.

Obviously some people are at a huge advantage (members of linguistic minorities, children of mixed language households) but that is true of just about anything in life (if you’re 6’8 you have a pretty significant advantage in basketball).

People think bilingualism requirements are a baked-in advantage for francophones because most francophones they know are, say, Franco-Ontariens.

It might be the case for the small subset of the French-speaking Canada that are Franco-Ontariens, but one doesn't have to venture far from Ottawa into Quebec to find tons of francophones who aren't so good in English.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Yes Acajack is certainly anglophone as well as francophone. He's fluently bilingual. His English is just as good as yours or mine and as far as I know he has spoken English since a young age.

That is a type of privilege when compared with us anglos.

Originally Posted by Loco101

The Ford government can certainly use the NWC but it won't be taken lightly even by quite a few of those who vote PC. It wasn't in the PC party's platform and they are trying to impose it even before a strike has begun. It's an odd thing to do when negotiations were taking place.

While the next election isn't until 2026, there will be a federal election before that and something like using the NWC could negatively affect the federal CPC. Don't forget how Ford has already hurt the CPC in Ontario and how Ontarians never seem to elect conservative or liberal governments at the same time. I also really question if Ford will even last through his second term.

Without adding too much more, there's still a possibility that a collective agreement will be reached very soon. My opinion is that Ford is making a huge mistake by picking on a group of workers most of who are less than average income earners and many who have pretty bad working conditions. And it's also a terrible move when there are now huge shortages in many of those positions.

If PP cannot sweep Ontario, PP cannot win the election.

Originally Posted by Acajack

People think bilingualism requirements are a baked-in advantage for francophones because most francophones they know are, say, Franco-Ontariens.

It might be the case for the small subset of the French-speaking Canada that are Franco-Ontariens, but one doesn't have to venture far from Ottawa into Quebec to find tons of francophones who aren't so good in English.

In parts of Canada, such as Northern ON, being bilingual is an asset that moves you slightly ahead of someone who is not.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

That is a type of privilege when compared with us anglos.

Anglo-Quebecers (well, not all but a significant majority of them) also have this advantage.

They have it over their unilingual francophone neighbours, too.

So it's not an exclusively "francophone" advantage.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

In parts of Canada, such as Northern ON, being bilingual is an asset that moves you slightly ahead of someone who is not.

You said it yourself: it's an "asset", so an additional skill.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

People think bilingualism requirements are a baked-in advantage for francophones because most francophones they know are, say, Franco-Ontariens.

It might be the case for the small subset of the French-speaking Canada that are Franco-Ontariens, but one doesn't have to venture far from Ottawa into Quebec to find tons of francophones who aren't so good in English.

I think that is true, but all things being equal, a francophone is much more likely to be bilingual than an anglophone. English is the language of global pop culture, tourism, most STEM fields, international business, etc.

The top apple music songs in Quebec City, for example.

https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/top-25-qu%C3%A9bec-city/pl.16fd373e7ff04847bf7ed879ef463b63

[vanatox]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I think that is true, but all things being equal, a francophone is much more likely to be bilingual than an anglophone. English is the language of global pop culture, tourism, most STEM fields, international business, etc.

The top apple music songs in Quebec City, for example.

https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/top-25-qu%C3%A9bec-city/pl.16fd373e7ff04847bf7ed879ef463b63

Let me tell you, a lot of people do not understand the lyrics of the songs they like lol.

But yes overall francophone are certainly more open to English.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

That is a type of privilege when compared with us anglos.

People can learn a language if they put the efforts. Better job opportunities for bilingual people is more a reward than a privilege (same thing for people with higher education).

[Acajack]

Some of the media here are reporting on a trend of US NHL clubs singing O Canada at least partly in French when hosting the Montreal Canadiens.

In Canada the only city that does this is Ottawa. Actually they sing it bilingually for all games there.

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Some of the media here are reporting on a trend of US NHL clubs singing O Canada at least partly in French when hosting the Montreal Canadiens.

In Canada the only city that does this is Ottawa. Actually they sing it bilingually for all games there.

Toronto has also done a bilingual version when Montreal visits for Hockey Night in Canada. While it's nice, it does seem just a little bit opportunistic.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Zeej

Toronto has also done a bilingual version when Montreal visits for Hockey Night in Canada. While it's nice, it does seem just a little bit opportunistic.

You may be right though the accounts I've read are saying Toronto doesn't.

BTW the last salvo on this came from Stu Cowan in The Gazette.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Zeej

Toronto has also done a bilingual version when Montreal visits for Hockey Night in Canada. While it's nice, it does seem just a little bit opportunistic.

Opportunistic?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Opportunistic?

More likely a gesture of goodwill (no matter how meaningless).

[kwoldtimer]

The question for me is why they continue to sing the national anthem at all - the way professional entertainment sports tries to wrap itself in patriotism, police and the military is nauseating, imho.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The question for me is why they continue to sing the national anthem at all - the way professional entertainment sports tries to wrap itself in patriotism, police and the military is nauseating, imho.

They know their target audience.