The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I dunno, the only bad section is Broughton to Bidwell. And all that is being fixed with redevelopment happening now.

Yeah it's going to be a mess for years to come with all the new construction in the pipeline.

I meant the luxury store section from Burrard to Bute. It's not horrible but certainly not befitting of a so-called "luxury row".

[connect2source]

Alberni and Robson sidewalks are an absolute embarrassment, with the downturn in retail during and since Covid, an overhaul of the sidewalks would certainly help to attract business. Robson could use a massive re-do too, it's an absolute mess with crumbling sidewalks, leftover concrete barriers from Covid and loose dirt and sand around planted trees.

On a recent trip to Halifax I noticed they'd been overhauling most of their downtown sidewalks, the first three shots are Spring Garden Road's complete overhaul ( downtown Halifax's main shopping street ) beautifully done with tons of integrated street furniture and planters, last one is Argyle Street, the main pub and bar street, completely redone in beautiful stone pavers with an argyle pattern.

We should, at minimum, be doing what a city the size of Halifax can do.

Photos by me.

[Vin]

You don't say. However, Vancouver isn't Halifax, or many other Canadian cities that invest in the City's aesthetics including upgrading streetscapes. We don't have funding for anything nice. FYI, even festive items like the Stanley Park Halloween ride was cancelled because the loco couldn't be repaired, and Santa Claus parade nixed due to a lack of sponsor. We have nothing nice here: the City really messed up. Honestly, I can't think of anything the City is good at doing for a very very long time. We are backward and has been dependent on foreign property investors for far too long, but that funding is drying up, especially with the misuse or terribly inefficient use of funds in the City.

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Welcome to Vancouver. There's always lots of talk about 'upgrading' things.. but it rarely happens. Anyone remember Expo/Pacific Blvd upgrade talk years ago? Nothing happened.

Ron.

Not just "upgrading", but also "tearing down". All talk no action.

[GenWhy?]

Looks similar to Granville Street.

Also to add, coming from a City that is locally famous for having a different paver and light standard for every couple blocks - it becomes a maintenance nightmare, costly, and unsynchronized for most bureaucracies.

Would be very cautious as a taxpayer to rip up, from what I can tell walking on it daily, perfectly fine and busy sidewalks just to have some extra flair.

[Vin]

Not only in Halifax, but many towns and cities across Canada have been upgrading their primary shopping & F&B/Entertainment thoroughfares in recent years, as per the following just in Ontario alone:

London, ON:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9832627,...Xs8SA0jel5zIaInaaC2VA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hess Village, Hamilton, ON:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2581048,...eoZcsqsdqMUkDK0xd9C9g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Kitchener, ON:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4498689,...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Yorkville Village, Toronto:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6707981,...5HWHpRQI-6XZolJOKGf8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6713373,...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192


The list goes on, but I'm not posting many others although you get the idea when I start describing how backward Vancouver is in recent years.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Looks similar to Granville Street.

Also to add, coming from a City that is locally famous for having a different paver and light standard for every couple blocks - it becomes a maintenance nightmare, costly, and unsynchronized for most bureaucracies.

Would be very cautious as a taxpayer to rip up, from what I can tell walking on it daily, perfectly fine and busy sidewalks just to have some extra flair.

Improving sidewalks does far more than just add to aesthetics.

In the case of Spring Garden Road in Halifax, the sidewalks were widened substantially to accommodate more foot traffic, the stone pavers provided a very even surface for walkers and especially those disabled, unlike Vancouver's mounds of asphalt used to repair cracks. The seating provides a place to take a break, gather and enjoy a bite or coffee, the planters provide a visual and environmental improvement, the improvements also bring in more shoppers and provide a boost to businesses, so certainly worth every cent of taxpayer money, not to mention quality materials like stone pavers last far longer and require far less maintenance in the long term over cheap materials and crappy repairs.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

Not only in Halifax, but many towns and cities across Canada have been upgrading their primary shopping & F&B/Entertainment thoroughfares in recent years, as per the following just in Ontario alone:

London, On:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9832627,...Xs8SA0jel5zIaInaaC2VA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hess Village, Hamilton, On:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2581048,...eoZcsqsdqMUkDK0xd9C9g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Yorkville Village, Toronto:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6707981,...5HWHpRQI-6XZolJOKGf8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6713373,...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192


The list goes on, but I'm not posting many others although you get the idea when I start describing how backward Vancouver is in recent years.

Again, when Robson or Alberni need to be completely torn up for utility upgrades and the local BIA contributes a lot of extra funds, like Yorkville, then I think a lot of people would be all for tearing up a perfectly fine chunk of infrastructure.

Much like the call-to-arms that the Gastown BIA did for it's complete streets re-design and renewal. Very promising.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Again, when Robson or Alberni need to be completely torn up for utility upgrades and the local BIA contributes a lot of extra funds, like Yorkville, then I think a lot of people would be all for tearing up a perfectly fine chunk of infrastructure.

Much like the call-to-arms the the Gastown BIA did for it's complete streets re-design and renewal. Very promising.

Hahaha: FYI: it isn't "fine".

We really need massive upgrades in town. The brickwork along Water Street is getting rather embarrassing.
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2846445,...i0VWUIp6iS4ZNb4kQNqXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2843459,...R82lA7PHo9ba2ofuA3bBQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2838806,...w12Zzu0DEZUufudjPSzbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2835333,...cNj1tfaMX5WHvNw2uTZ6w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2833726,...0NcP3iPrNzJeDL4Q0dPvw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Calling-to-arms equates all talk and no action. It amounts to nothing and the situation continues to be bleak. Can't see this broke city doing much in the foreseeable future. Everything is dependent on CACs.

[GenWhy?]

As far as aesthetics and street maintenance affecting retail even just psychologically... it's definitely Water Street and that cluster-chunk.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hahaha: FYI: it isn't "fine".

The " fine" was in reference to Robson and Alberni, not Gastown.

The similarity to Gastown would be the redevelopment process, not the prior condition.

[Just heading off an unwarranted pissing match]

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hahaha: FYI: it isn't "fine".

We really need massive upgrades in town. The brickwork along Water Street is getting rather embarrassing.

Calling-to-arms equates all talk and no action. It amounts to nothing and the situation continues to be bleak. Can't see this broke city doing much in the foreseeable future. Everything is dependent on CACs.

It'll likely be in the next Capital Budget (tax money). It was pushed out of the last one due to COVID cuts.

In fact I'm actually quite happy the Gastown Complete Streets program has put on hold because COVID opened the door for a lot of improvements without all the consultation and delay. I'm very happy the BIA put out their own more aggressive design during COVID after the last round of City complete streets consultation. I hope they start back up the planning this summer as the heavy lifting of traffic management gets tangled with. Really hope it's a quick decision (end of 2023 I freaking hope) and construction period for the area.

[GenWhy?]

Staying true to the thread, I really really hope a fully reconstruction such as the BIA version doesn't destroy local businesses (except for the tourists ones). Would love some timing with the old Army &Navy

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hahaha: FYI: it isn't "fine".

We really need massive upgrades in town. The brickwork along Water Street is getting rather embarrassing.
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2846445,...i0VWUIp6iS4ZNb4kQNqXg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2843459,...R82lA7PHo9ba2ofuA3bBQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2838806,...w12Zzu0DEZUufudjPSzbw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2835333,...cNj1tfaMX5WHvNw2uTZ6w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2833726,...0NcP3iPrNzJeDL4Q0dPvw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Calling-to-arms equates all talk and no action. It amounts to nothing and the situation continues to be bleak. Can't see this broke city doing much in the foreseeable future. Everything is dependent on CACs.

Water Street's reconstruction will be paid from taxes, not CACs. The reason the work hasn't started is in part because BC Hydro have been ripping up the area to put power cables underground. They're still doing that on Alexander Street. The patches in the sidewalks (where asphalt has been stuck in the brick pavers as a temporary measure) are being fixed now. That work goes at least to the end of the year.

If the City had redesigned and re-laid the street, and then BC Hydro had come along and dug it all up again to put their trenches in, you would have been jumping all over it, saying how the City had wasted money. This way it shouldn't need digging up for a while (at least for Hydro work).

The red brick pavers are a really good example of why concrete sidewalks and asphalt roads are a way more intelligent approach than stone pavers, or brick. The patching when a new connection has to be made, or a broken pipe fixed, are never as good as the original surface, and over time it gets really messy - especially if it's an emergency fix. Using easily-replicated finishes is way cheaper and easier. There are current development projects on Water Street, and they'll need underground sewer and water connections (and now Hydro too). Planning for that necessity is a better idea than trying to get a half-decent patch job later.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

It's a shame, Alberni Street "Luxury Zone" and the state of our sidewalks for most of DT Vancouver are positively atrocious. But then that's pretty much par for course for public realm in Canadian cities.

That being said, Alberni Street from Denman west to the park is probably the nicest stretch of sidewalk in the DT peninsula, if not the City of Vancouver. I welcome any counterpoints

It's quite nice, although I am quite fond of the Coal Harbour waterfront walk/bikeway a few blocks away:

[officedweller]

MEC opens concessions in Toronto HBC stores.
The story says that the Forever 21 concessions inside HBC stores have closed after only 1 year.
Has the Vancouver one closed - is that where the new Levis (mentioned above) is located?
Maybe an MEC is cloming to the basement of Vancouver's downtown HBC?

MEC Opens First 3 Concessions in Toronto Hudson’s Bay Stores
https://retail-insider.com/retail-inside...oncessions-in-hudsons-bay-stores-photos/

[SpongeG]

hthe Bay in Richmond Centre still has a Forever 21 concession in it, well beside it/attached accessed from the mall or the store.

Also Hudsons Bay at that mall is really nice and has kept up with stock and trendy brands and was very busy when I was there on Sunday. When the Bay gets it right they seem to get it right.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

It's quite nice, although I am quite fond of the Coal Harbour waterfront walk/bikeway a few blocks away:

Ah yes, but thats more of a seawall/promenade, different category for me from "sidewalks"

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Alberni and Robson sidewalks are an absolute embarrassment, with the downturn in retail during and since Covid, an overhaul of the sidewalks would certainly help to attract business. Robson could use a massive re-do too, it's an absolute mess with crumbling sidewalks, leftover concrete barriers from Covid and loose dirt and sand around planted trees.

I doubt the downtown shoppers who disappeared during COVID will return because of improved sidewalks. The real and/or perceived danger of coming downtown and the reduction of tourists from China and elsewhere likely share a much larger portion of the blame.

But I would love if we took some space from cars on Robson to provide larger sidewalks and improved public seating. In fact, I think Robson should be bike and pedestrian only from BC Place to Denman . Alternatively, we could take away all curbside parking on Robson and double the sidewalk on both sides. As for what surface materials should be used, I like the esthetic appeal of brick and pavers as much as anyone but they make it a lot more unpleasant to wheel a suitcase, push a stroller, or roll a wheelchair.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Water Street's reconstruction will be paid from taxes, not CACs. The reason the work hasn't started is in part because BC Hydro have been ripping up the area to put power cables underground. They're still doing that on Alexander Street. The patches in the sidewalks (where asphalt has been stuck in the brick pavers as a temporary measure) are being fixed now. That work goes at least to the end of the year.

If the City had redesigned and re-laid the street, and then BC Hydro had come along and dug it all up again to put their trenches in, you would have been jumping all over it, saying how the City had wasted money. This way it shouldn't need digging up for a while (at least for Hydro work).

The red brick pavers are a really good example of why concrete sidewalks and asphalt roads are a way more intelligent approach than stone pavers, or brick. The patching when a new connection has to be made, or a broken pipe fixed, are never as good as the original surface, and over time it gets really messy - especially if it's an emergency fix. Using easily-replicated finishes is way cheaper and easier. There are current development projects on Water Street, and they'll need underground sewer and water connections (and now Hydro too). Planning for that necessity is a better idea than trying to get a half-decent patch job later.

Hence my saying: "everything depends on CACs". No CAC, forget about upgrades, especially when the City is bankrupt.

BC Hydro is a West coast BC entity as well, staffed by Lower Mainlanders. Funny we haven't seen work from them over there in Gastown for months and months, and is the City pushing them to get it done? Likely not.

Stop giving excuses because municipalities/utility companies elsewhere have done way better and more efficient work. In the meantime, the rot continues.....

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The " fine" was in reference to Robson and Alberni, not Gastown.

The similarity to Gastown would be the redevelopment process, not the prior condition.

[Just heading off an unwarranted pissing match]

They are not as bad as Gastown, but certainly not "fine":

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2845632,...tYYFRj8CL49IDaXUnEvvg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.284434,-...vz6ZQkq6xYWPnW03cvVfA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.285277,-...udgC-rjur_xOqCIJJjxjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

We have high end shops flanking cracked-up streets, especially along Alberni. I suppose changing City will come in to say that BC Hydro is also doing some work here.