Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Even the suburbs kick our downtown's ass lol (okay, maybe just one).

I was in Phoenix back in 2019 for work and one night we went out to Westgate in Glendale and it blew anything we have out of the water in terms of adult entertainment options. Granted, the sprawl aspect of it was atrocious but that's how the area around the Viv should be and it's not even close (at least a more urban version of it).

As cool as that may look, it is a hyper development next to their football stadium way out in the ex-urbs where there are still farm fields surrounding it. Definitely not a great example of good urban design.

[Ironweed]

With Reeder's photos of the church rebuild, one has to wonder what all those underground tunnels and rooms are for. Are they building a bomb shelter? I suppose you have to be one of the elite to be invited in.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Orlando

As cool as that may look, it is a hyper development next to their football stadium way out in the ex-urbs where there are still farm fields surrounding it. Definitely not a great example of good urban design.

I never said it was a great example of urban design. In fact, you literally quoted me saying the exact opposite: that the sprawl aspect of it is atrocious and that I'd much prefer a more urban version of it.

But the laws won't ever allow for something even remotely like that to exist - a collection of bars and entertainment options that provide alcohol. Why? Because 1) there's limited liquor licenses and 2) bars are tied to population. So, you can only have one bar per 10,200 residents. It's also more expensive here to open a bar than in other states.

The Westgate isn't just 'cool' to look at it - it also has places like Fat Tuesday and Bar Louie, which are not located anywhere in Utah. The closest we have to a national thing like that is Dave and Busters, and even that is limited here (you can't bring your drinks outside the eating area).

But I also understand it's the region, too. Take Punch Bowl Social, which opened up at the Gateway in 2019 or so. Sure, maybe it was part pandemic (I'm sure a lot pandemic to be honest) but it closed down despite still seeing success in other areas like Denver, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Portland and Sacramento (and larger cities like Chicago and Atlanta).

[bob rulz]

I would be surprised if Punch Bowl Social had failed were it not for the pandemic. It was very bad timing on their opening. I think there's definitely demand for that kind of establishment in downtown Salt Lake.

[gastronomicslc]

Originally Posted by Comrade

But I also understand it's the region, too. Take Punch Bowl Social, which opened up at the Gateway in 2019 or so. Sure, maybe it was part pandemic (I'm sure a lot pandemic to be honest) but it closed down despite still seeing success in other areas like Denver, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Portland and Sacramento (and larger cities like Chicago and Atlanta).

To confirm, it was absolutely the pandemic. Cracker Barrel was the majority owner in the business. Within barely a week of the pandemic "starting" they pulled the funding. The business fell over nationwide in short order. The whole model was built on being experiential, and they proudly didn't do things like delivery or takeout. As such they had no pivot. I'm pretty bullish that they would have survived without the pandemic. Vestar have done a lot with the The Gateway and continue to do so.

Flanker now reside in the former Punch Bowl spot and it's essentially the same model, but with more of a sports bar focus. I believe they've taken on a few of the shuttered PB locations nationally as well.

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by Ironweed

With Reeder's photos of the church rebuild, one has to wonder what all those underground tunnels and rooms are for. Are they building a bomb shelter? I suppose you have to be one of the elite to be invited in.

This will be the new visitor's center:



....it will look like this when it's done:




All of the rooms and hallways in the two pics below are an extension of the Temple. Notice that they're building two baptismal fonts. This is also where members of the Church will enter the Temple.





....here's a look at what the that side will look like once completed:




Below is where the old North Visitor's Center used to be. This will now be sort of a garden area to relax and contemplate. They're building restrooms for the public here, as well as a tunnel extension that I think connects into the Tabernacle Choir dressing room, if I'm not mistaken.



.....you can see the garden and restrooms in the bottom center of this concept art:

[freeshavocado]

Thanks Reeder113. I hadn't seen a birds-eye view of the whole two block design. It's nice to see what they have planned overall. I like that they're removing most of the wall in favor of a fence that you can see through.

It looks like they still have a lot of work on the West block around the temple, but hopefully the East block will open soon. Seems like they're fairly close on the landscaping around the church office building and the JSMB. It's been a dead zone for so long.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by gastronomicslc

To confirm, it was absolutely the pandemic. Cracker Barrel was the majority owner in the business. Within barely a week of the pandemic "starting" they pulled the funding. The business fell over nationwide in short order. The whole model was built on being experiential, and they proudly didn't do things like delivery or takeout. As such they had no pivot. I'm pretty bullish that they would have survived without the pandemic. Vestar have done a lot with the The Gateway and continue to do so.

Flanker now reside in the former Punch Bowl spot and it's essentially the same model, but with more of a sports bar focus. I believe they've taken on a few of the shuttered PB locations nationally as well.

Punchbowl failed because of many things, including the pandemic. It was just a strange project. I mean, who goes through the effort of getting a coveted bar license then puts a NON ALCOHOLIC COCKTAIL LIST on the front page? They basically came into the market (with sharp elbows) with zero actual knowledge of how this market works and failed. I mean, NA cocktails (aka zero or low abv) are a wonderful developing thing in the bar world, but somebody "really smart" told them that NA bevs are what you lead with in SLC. Because "Mormons"? Just totally tone-deaf. SLC is a hard drinking city and always has been. Still haven't been to Flanker but look forward to it.

[mstar]

Thanks Reeder for sending those drawings of what Temple Square is going to look like. It looks to me that the whole complex will be like a big beautiful park. As long as it is open to everyone, this is a positive thing.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Marvland

Not that it matters what I think but Phoenix is absolutely killing it right now. Best food and beverage scene in the west behind LA, while San Fran and Seattle are licking their wounds. I spend a lot of time down there and what they've done with Downtown PHX should be studied by other cities. Absolutely gorgeous desert surroundings, crazy action in the different hoods. Love it. Wish SLC had half of what they have going on down there right now.

It has been quite the ride in Phoenix, I spend a good deal of time in both cities being from there but have lived in the valley of the sun for a long time now. I like what both are doing but agree with you that I wish SLC had more of what Phoenix has going on for vibrancy downtown and in other areas of the metro area. I stay updated on here so I know what to checkout next time I'm up there.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Comrade

I never said it was a great example of urban design. In fact, you literally quoted me saying the exact opposite: that the sprawl aspect of it is atrocious and that I'd much prefer a more urban version of it.

But the laws won't ever allow for something even remotely like that to exist - a collection of bars and entertainment options that provide alcohol. Why? Because 1) there's limited liquor licenses and 2) bars are tied to population. So, you can only have one bar per 10,200 residents. It's also more expensive here to open a bar than in other states.

The Westgate isn't just 'cool' to look at it - it also has places like Fat Tuesday and Bar Louie, which are not located anywhere in Utah. The closest we have to a national thing like that is Dave and Busters, and even that is limited here (you can't bring your drinks outside the eating area).

But I also understand it's the region, too. Take Punch Bowl Social, which opened up at the Gateway in 2019 or so. Sure, maybe it was part pandemic (I'm sure a lot pandemic to be honest) but it closed down despite still seeing success in other areas like Denver, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Portland and Sacramento (and larger cities like Chicago and Atlanta).

I didn't know that about the Utah liquor laws but that does make a lot more sense now.

And by the way, Westgate is now reaching a tipping point where urban development is occurring. A pair of 15-story apartment buildings we're just approved nearby. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...-okd-near-state-farm-stadium/8138984001/

I've always wondered if the Salt Lake valley area would have a second urban area emerge, I was thinking the area near Southtowne mall could become something like Westgate but knowing what you just said maybe that is never really possible.

[Atlas]

Bar Louie is not cool lol. Big chain restaurants just are not cool in general. I'd take Flanker Kitchen (warts and all) over a Bar Louie.

SLC has certainly been limited by the state-imposed bar license cap. That said, my perception is that the downtown F&B scene has improved significantly in the last ten years even despite the pandemic. Now it seems like the biggest struggle is finding workers for all of these new restaurants.

In other news, I saw on the portal that Level Crossing is planning on opening their second location at the Post District. Now that will be cool

[Orlando]

Can anyone point me to the proposed 10-story building on the southeast corner of 300 East and 300 South?

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Can anyone point me to the proposed 10-story building on the southeast corner of 300 East and 300 South?

That would be news to me. Doesn't seem like a parcel that's going to be redeveloped anytime soon. Wrong address?

[Orlando]

Oh. Maybe it's the Firestone lot on 2nd East & 3rd South. Can you find that info?

[Atlas]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Oh. Maybe it's the Firestone lot on 2nd East & 3rd South. Can you find that info?

That parcel is owned by Kensington Investment Company. There's been no public info on that project yet but I've heard that they don't plan on developing anything immediately in SLC after Astra. More recently, with the market slowing down and interest rates going up, my guess is they won't do anything with their parcels in the short/medium term.

That said, Makid has posted in the past about KIC's desire to build more city-defining projects like Astra in the future. Given that, I think a 10-story building would actually be surprisingly small for that lot.

[SLC PopPunk]

Appears Sugarmont Apartments are on fire:
https://imgur.com/OJyT1LE

Video from SLCFD:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1585144877389869057

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by SLC PopPunk

Appears Sugarmont Apartments are on fire:
https://imgur.com/OJyT1LE

Video from SLCFD:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1585144877389869057

Brutal. Seeing all the pics and vids on social media. It's a big one

[delts145]

Brutal...No joke!! Good grief, they just finally finished the project. I hope they have excellent fire insurance. I guess it could have been worse. Instead of the top of the building, somewhere in the middle, allowing people to get out safely.

[Atlas]

BSL reports that it's Sugar Alley that was on fire.