Originally Posted by zahav
There's no need for bickering on this, it is a statistics discussion, and the numbers are just that. I didn't post numbers because the point was to show a snapshot comparison for one month based on percentage, since that is the only way to compare changes accurately. It wasn't a judgement call on any airport. YUL is definitely killing it internationaly. I only asked the question about the July to August decline because I was genuinely curious, it happened at both YUL and YYC so I legit wanted to know if this was normal for both, and traffic there is generally busier in July than August. Both are peak travel months, but YVR is typically busier in August than July, so was just asking what the case was in YUL or YYC. The month to month decline in transborder and international numbers at YUL is a legit question and not a diss. As is fact, Montreal's international (non US) and overall international (incl. transborder) is higher than YVR, no doubt. YVR's percentage gain was higher, also fact... Those numbers can analyzed like crazy, it's really not a competition (damn I know that sounds corny but it's true). Other than the stupid "battle for 2nd biggest airport" claim, YVR and YUL couldn't be more different in terms of markets, passenger profile, areas of strength, etc. It is YYZ and YUL moreso who are in direct competion for much of the same markets. It appears to me that YUL is on the gaining end and YYZ on the losing end of the new routes "competition". Not trying to start yet anothert SSP city vs city battle, just being straight up. There's virtually none (if any) route announcements for YUL that are a sting to YVR, and vice versa. The new routes for each compliment the uniqueness of the two places, and don't overlap whatsoever. But when you compare YUL to YYZ, there's so many routes that are overlaps, and airlines put a lot of thought into which to choose. YVR's closest competition is YYC of course, and with WS focusing ops there, domestic especuilly is very strong (I'd wager YVR is the biggest destination source for a lot of connecting pax across WS's network, which is why they still operate a very healthy operation from YVR instead of just cutting everything back and moving it to YYC, at least so far). BUT... YVR and YYC are very very different when it comes to the scope of their international/transborder ops, and sheer number of foreign flights and carriers. Just to keep "friendly competition" going, here are the number of foreign carriers operating from the big Canadian airports:
YYZ - 35
YVR - 31
YUL - 21
YYC - 7
iDISCLAIMER: source is from Wikipedia pages for each; I did check and the lists seem accurate. But I may have miscounted or the pages aren't up-to-date, so correct me if it's wrong. I collapsed regional/mainline carriers into one, because that just makes sense. And I only included airlines that will be operating in 2023. So airlines like El Al are not included since they have already announced they will be ceasing service to YYZ, but airlines that have confirmed start of service are included (eg. Eurowings to YVR and YYZ).
Again, this is just straight listing of facts, and obviously doesn't tell the whole story of an airport by one measure. It's more just showing what's there, same as the pax stats, they are what they are, it shouldn't be so controversial. Look no further than many major cities in the US. Phoenix was the 11th busiest airport in the world last year, and they only have 6 foreign carriers (there's probably even more stark examples). It's just an interesting comparison, because each of those international airlines had a choice of where to fly, and they made calculated choices (assumably to make money, on whatever routes they think will do best). What is tells me is Air Canada has a lot of room to grow at YVR, they barely have any routes where they have a monopoly (unlike YYZ, where AC is king on many many routes). It means that YVR can have almost the same amount of foreign carriers as Toronto, which is infinitely bigger on the international front. Don't get me wrong, YYZ does very well in terms of international carriers, but I think AC's clear dominance does result in some absences and low-ish frequency from certain foreign carriers). So yes, I do think AC's dominance has some effect on YYZ's number of carriers. I think there's some degree of effect from AC in YUL, but again not so dominant it keeps foreign carriers out. Their total is respectable, and has severa; unique tails. I think it's YYC where you see that airline dominance on show. Their international tail count is not only low, but it's shrunk from past years by a healthy amount. But the airport is doing really well, and quite well connected internationally becuase of WS. It's just like ATL, it's Delta country through and through even with all of the other airlines. They are all small potatoes compared to Delta. Just like literally everyone at YYC vs. WS. So it means WS will be a big boon for growth, but will also be a possible impediment to new carriers.
Like I said, carriers numbers do not make a great airport, this is just for presentation purproses and a bit of possible anakysis. Ie. my thoughts that AC is big, but not overwhelming, at YVR. So they have a decent network (and always improving) but there's still a lot of room for foreigners. Not sure AC's strategy, they seem content with their market share at YVR, despite is being much lower than at YYZ and YUL. Same domestically, it means both AC and WS have quite extensive networks, probably the most even split of the big 4 airports (AC and WS are so far apart in YYZ and YUL, AC is way out in front; in Calgary, WS is so far out in front). AC is still quite a bit bigger at YVR than WS, but it is a narrower gap than elsewhere
|
Prev
As meagre as it is, YVR is at least holding it's own in terms of Chinese airlines and overseas service. It appears to be tied with LAX, LHR, and SYD for service from Chinese Airlines (4x weekly!!), but tied with LHR for # of carriers serving it (4). YYZ will have two weekly flights from two carriers. So sad, and of course Air Canada has cancelled any planned S23 service, so this will be at least until 2024 to see any resemblance of recovery
Linear Mode
