Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I'm not really keen on lumping all uses into the same corridor (ie creating a "stroad").
Like SkyTrain flying above instead of mixed in with traffic, I see a benefit to keeping some traffic away from areas where there are more leisurely uses.

Totally agree. This is exactly the same reason why there are cities with efficient underground bypasses, intersection flyovers, etc. We already have a system here that works really well despite the half-truths coming out from naysayers. We also all know that money does not grow on trees.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Let's just say some demographics haven't changed with the times as well as other demographics have. I, for one, am not surprised that some retirees making their quarterly trip into downtown chose to drive instead of taking transit, walking, or biking.

Looking at the CBC story, many of the fans weren't boomers. And as the ones they interviewed travelled from Oliver, Penticton, Abbotsford, Vernon, Kelowna and Alberta, it's not surprising they drove. I'll have a word with Elton, and make sure he doesn't retire again.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Looking at the CBC story, many of the fans weren't boomers. And as the ones they interviewed travelled from Oliver, Penticton, Abbotsford, Vernon, Kelowna and Alberta, it's not surprising they drove. I'll have a word with Elton, and make sure he doesn't retire again.

Please adjust my original post to say "retirees and fans not from the Lower Mainland" .

Based on my totally non-scientific study of people who work in my office and live outside of Vancouver, they all know to park at Scott Road and take the Skytrain if they are attending a Canucks game, concert, etc.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The viaducts are old and need to go, to get on with NEFC redevelopment.

The sooner the better. If ABC wants to protect west side SFHs and be seen to make some action on housing, that should be one of the things they do during their term.

Hahahaha. Funny.

Bye bye Granville, Burrard and Lions Gate Bridge. You guys are even older.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I guess you were?

Not for Elton John.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hahahaha. Funny.

Bye bye Granville, Burrard and Lions Gate Bridge. You guys are even older.

So you can't tell steel from concrete? There aren't many alternatives to repairing a bridge over water, except completely replacing it. Those bridges have all needed tens of millions spent on them. The viaducts were there to cross an area of heavy industries. Those have gone now - we can put the road on the ground.

Granville Bridge, for example
1997: seismic retrofit of the north and south piers
2009-2010: installation of over 3,000 steel stirrups to the concrete ramps
2012: repairs to pier M7 at the north end
2013: replacement of the steel truss span bearings
2016: repairs to the gantry system
2019-2021: seismic and structural upgrades.

The Lion's Gate was rebuilt in 1975, and that lasted 25 years until it was seismically upgraded again in 2001. That cost $63.4m (in 2001 dollars - over $100m in today's dollars).

You'd apparently prefer taxpayers to find another $90m (in 2018 dollars) to prop up the viaducts than have them replaced.

[GenWhy?]

Just a reminder that 898 Main Street (an entire City block with a site area of over 164,360k sf) in a Land Trust with the Hogan's Alley folks.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Just a reminder that 898 Main Street (an entire City block with a site area of over 164,360k sf) in a Land Trust with the Hogan's Alley folks.

Do we know if the City actually disposed of the site? Or leased it? I read that they had 'reached an agreement' but I suspect nothing has actually been signed yet, and while the viaducts are standing it's moot, but there could be a different view from a different Council.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Hahahaha. Funny.

Bye bye Granville, Burrard and Lions Gate Bridge. You guys are even older.

If you can't tell the difference between the viaducts and bridges, well... I guess that's par for the course for you.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Do we know if the City actually disposed of the site? Or leased it? I read that they had 'reached an agreement' but I suspect nothing has actually been signed yet, and while the viaducts are standing it's moot, but there could be a different view from a different Council.

Right correct, agreement for a Land Trust. I'm just trying to reiterate that in order to "save the viaducts" one would have to trash this agreement and the CAC from Plaza of Nations (for the road works) would have to be undone? Not sure how that works.

I wonder what the new intersections at Gore-Prior and Dunlevy-Prior are supposed to look like once the hospital is complete. Looks like quite a few extra turning lanes along Prior. Probably more delays along the viaducts with more light traffic at Gore-Prior intersection holding things up.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Vin

I'm a happy camper every time I see the viaducts still standing: chanelling traffic quickly into and out from downtown. Now they are even brightly lit with LED streetlights. Awesome.

Yes, the viaducts quickly funnel traffic onto Main Street and Prior Street, creating heavy volumes of traffic on those streets. A surface road replacement of the viaducts would have a few intersections, which would slow down the amount of cars being funneled onto Main and Prior. Traffic would be metered out of downtown more evenly.

The biggest upside in my mind though would be the redevelopment of the land the viaducts sit on, and the rejuvenation of Chinatown (and hopefully East Hastings as well). Thousands of new residents would have a hugely positive effect on the area.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Please adjust my original post to say "retirees and fans not from the Lower Mainland" .

Based on my totally non-scientific study of people who work in my office and live outside of Vancouver, they all know to park at Scott Road and take the Skytrain if they are attending a Canucks game, concert, etc.

Actually by my reckoning there was:
Elton John - BC Place
Vancouver Canucks - Rogers Arena
Vancouver Opera - Queen Elizabeth Theatre
Milk Carton Kids - Vogue Theatre

So, nice try at ageism but there will be people of all ages downtown for events and it wasn't just older people driving. Not every youngster is going to rise their fixie in from Mt Pleasant.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Actually by my reckoning there was:
Elton John - BC Place
Vancouver Canucks - Rogers Arena
Vancouver Opera - Queen Elizabeth Theatre
Milk Carton Kids - Vogue Theatre

So, nice try at ageism but there will be people of all ages downtown for events and it wasn't just older people driving. Not every youngster is going to rise their fixie in from Mt Pleasant.

Who cares? We don't build transportation infrastructure to handle unique evenings like this without any congestion.

I remember when just the Canucks at the Pacific Coliseum would cause delays for blocks in every direction.

[Migrant_Coconut]

And the Celebration of Light chokes up half of Vancouver for three nights a year; it's best to just avoid driving to... anywhere north of Broadway on those nights.

[jlousa]

I don't think ABC is going to be pushing the viaduct removal anytime soon. And I'm good with that. Believe we will see Ken Sim's council go thru the city budget line by line and see the city return more towards it's traditional role of providing services and less about social engineering. Going to upset some people but think the majority had enough for now, of course things will probably change again after a future election.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I don't think ABC is going to be pushing the viaduct removal anytime soon. And I'm good with that. Believe we will see Ken Sim's council go thru the city budget line by line and see the city return more towards it's traditional role of providing services and less about social engineering. Going to upset some people but think the majority had enough for now, of course things will probably change again after a future election.

But the viaduct replacement funds are related to the CACs from the Plaza of Nations, and Concord (if they finally negotiate). There's no City budget money from taxes being allocated. If there's a decision to keep the viaducts, rather than replace them, then they'll show up as an expensive budget item, and the CACs would have to be allocated to some other NEFC public benefit.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

But the viaduct replacement funds are related to the CACs from the Plaza of Nations, and Concord (if they finally negotiate). There's no City budget money from taxes being allocated. If there's a decision to keep the viaducts, rather than replace them, then they'll show up as an expensive budget item, and the CACs would have to be allocated to some other NEFC public benefit.

Gee, how about that park Concord was was supposed to have built there?

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Gee, how about that park Concord was was supposed to have built there?

Was?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jlousa

I don't think ABC is going to be pushing the viaduct removal anytime soon. And I'm good with that. Believe we will see Ken Sim's council go thru the city budget line by line and see the city return more towards it's traditional role of providing services and less about social engineering. Going to upset some people but think the majority had enough for now, of course things will probably change again after a future election.

I think NEFC will get some consideration as it will allow them to show a ton of new housing without disturbing anyone on the west side.

What's less clear is how interested Concord is in doing this build out in the next ~10 years. If they aren't, we might not see much action.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Gee, how about that park Concord was was supposed to have built there?

Time for an eye test? There's been one there since 2018. The bigger permanent one will be developed when the CAC deal is reached and the viaducts come down, and the CAC will more than pay for both. Like Andy Livingstone Park, David Lam Park and George Wainborn Park, the most polluted land will be left underneath it, as it's safer to leave it undisturbed than taking it off site for treatment.