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View Poll Results: Who are you voting for in the 2026 Winnipeg mayoral election?
Scott Gillingham 15 75.00%
Kevin Klein 3 15.00%
Michael Vogiatzakis 0 0%
Other 2 10.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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  #801  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 2:21 AM
Winnipegger Winnipegger is online now
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Well, Murray lost my vote after tonight's debate. His grasp on the state of the city's finances is non-existent, which is clear after him committing to a tax freeze. Instead, he uses unrealistic concepts like begging Stephanson for 1% of the PST or "growing the tax base" or land-value uplift as some sort of magical solutions that will provide a firehose of cash for a city that already has the lowest average property tax, lowest tax revenue per capita, and lowest expenditure per capita.

Murray's pseudo-urbanist solutions are almost disrespectful at this point, thinking he can promise the moon and stars to fix our city and then claim he doesn't need to raise tax to do it. He needs to pick a lane, instead of trying to appease fiscal Hawks and tax-and-spend urbanists. Does he really think he can fool the average voter with these tactics? Time will tell.

Fun fact: to all those who say a mayor should just focus on "growing the tax base instead of taxing everyone more", during Winnipeg's best years of growth in terms of population and permit values which occurred in the mid 2010s, the growth in the assessment base added approximately $6 million per year to the municipal budget. That's it. All those hundreds of millions of dollars of houses and malls and apartments and warehouses adds $6 million in revenue to our city every year. And guess what: the annual increase in the police budget simply due to wage increases (inflationary increases and merit increases) totalled $6 million annually. So all the new growth in the assessment base the city sees gets sucked up entirely by cops getting raises. And that's just one line item in one department. So no, we will never "growth the city" enough to bring in sufficient taxes to fix everything, because growth puts pressure on the city budget as well.

Disappointed in Murray, but he is really revealing his true nature the closer we get to election day. Eratic, unorganized, disconnect from reality, and hoping to fund his initiatives with magic money to win over conservatives and liberals alike. I still think he will win, but I'm much less optimistic about what his likely short tenure as mayor will look like. I'd expect he will jump ship to the next big opportunity the moment it presents itself once he realizes a "no tax increase" platform literally leaves him with no money to implement anything of substance.

Talk about a goof up. Even the fiscal hawk former finance chair realizes we need tax increases in excess of 3% just to stay afloat.
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  #802  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 2:49 AM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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If anyone knows The Wire, the parable of "bowls of 🞵🞵🞵🞵" really applies to municipal governments here especially Winnipeg.

Can't rely on the Province to actually fund anything even though 80-85% of people live and/or work in Winnipeg.

But also don't have the property base to feasibly tax your way to a reasonable budget to do it yourself.

Hell 2/3 of our own emergency services workers don't pay property tax into the kitty...but they sure love to collect.
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  #803  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 4:00 AM
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Loney gives me weird vibes but I can't help but like a lot of his platform.

Also I felt the same as many here did about Murray -- he just seemed really unserious. Like honestly am I the only one who thought he kinda looked like a mess? Stumbling over his words, big bags under his eyes, flip flopping on simply yes/no questions... Idk. Disappointing.

Unless Ouellette surges in polls, I think I'll be voting for Loney. He really gives me curious vibes but he's definitely the urbanist vote and the rest of his policy prescriptions are generally reasonable.

Honestly though, of those five I don't think any of them would be a complete disaster for the city. Klein would frustrate me but like, this isn't like previous elections where a Motkaluk/Katz level disaster was near the front of the pack in polls. Refreshing.
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  #804  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 1:03 PM
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Indeed...Murray was a befuddled mess. Very disappointing. Unfortunately the format didn't really allow anyone to shine; no one really gave me the confidence that they would move the city forward...but I thought RFO accorded himself the best. Having said that, I am really not sure what do now. I was certain I was voting for Murray...not likely now.
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  #805  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 1:14 PM
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I had to miss the debate due to a previous commitment. I'm going to watch it tonight. For anyone else who missed it, it's available here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRUapbnhtjM

Extremely disappointing to hear of Murray's commitment to the property tax freeze. I honestly thought we would have learned our lessons from that. The property freeze was a good idea... for about 7 years. Keeping it for twice that long inflicted real damage on the city and bringing it back will only cause more. Murray as Mayor would simply not have the political leverage to push the province into surrendering PST revenue, even if it is probably a good idea in the long run. What is that saying about how hope is not a strategy?
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  #806  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 1:40 PM
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I have to jump on the band wagon - the debate made me doubt my vote for Murray. I agree he looked in rough shape, was befuddled, almost confused at time. During the rapid fire segment, he seemed to be waiting on the other candidates' Yes / No selections before making his decision. If not for his mayoral legacy, I don't think I'd even consider him.

Klein was like a caricature of a scared old suburbanite, trying to answer every question with "the city is unsafe, we need more police". I liked some of RFO and Loney's ideas...but I wish the format allowed for more time per candidate, it's hard to get your point across in 30 seconds.
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  #807  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 2:03 PM
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The format was terrible, but I think it was enough to see that Murray's WHOLE platform hinges on extracting money from the PST. When, not if, that doesn't happen he's got a built in excuse for not accomplishing anything. For me he lost all credibility with that "plan". If he had even one politician on the federal or provincial level lend some credibility to him by acknowledging that his plan has some faint hope that would help, but literally anyone can go on stage anywhere and promise things that depend on other people paying for it, how is this guy even taken seriously in this race?
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  #808  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 2:26 PM
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^ In fairness, just about any ambitious promises made by a mayoral candidate (i.e. anything beyond normal operating budget stuff) will require someone else to pick up a good chunk of the tab.
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  #809  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 2:35 PM
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Yeah I'll add my voice to the "hugely disappointed with Murray" crowd. We've finally gotten to the point where property tax increases don't seem to be the death knell for a candidate and Murray trots it out again. At this point any of Loney/ Bokhari /Oulette seem better for me.
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  #810  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 2:38 PM
Winnipegger Winnipegger is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ In fairness, just about any ambitious promises made by a mayoral candidate (i.e. anything beyond normal operating budget stuff) will require someone else to pick up a good chunk of the tab.
We should all remember that the average municipal property tax bill across other major Canadian cities is around $2,900. In Winnipeg, it's $2,173 (includes frontage levy). If Winnipeggers had their property taxed at a rate that was closer to the Canadian average, the municipal budget would have an extra $250 million in revenue, every year.

No need to ask the province for 1% of the PST - something that no other city gets in Canada. We would also be wise to remember that in the off chance that Murray got his wish granted and Stephanson handed over a no-strings attached cut of the PST, the Province would then be facing an equivalent reduction in revenue to other provincial programs. Knowing the cons, it's not like they are going to find some other revenue source, which means something else at a provincial level would be cut to grant Murray his wish. What would it be? Reduce funding to social services, or post-secondary education, or infrastructure?

Murray's ask is a double-edged sword that takes away the hard decision making from him and offloads it to the Premiere, which is a wishy-washy way of trying to generate more revenue without committing to unpopular property tax increases. Give Murray what he wants, and we will see something else suffer at the provincial level. My guess? Give Murray the 1% PST and see the equivalent amount reduced from capital grants, making the switch revenue neutral and making no-one better off.
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  #811  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipegger View Post
Well, Murray lost my vote after tonight's debate. His grasp on the state of the city's finances is non-existent, which is clear after him committing to a tax freeze. Instead, he uses unrealistic concepts like begging Stephanson for 1% of the PST or "growing the tax base" or land-value uplift as some sort of magical solutions that will provide a firehose of cash for a city that already has the lowest average property tax, lowest tax revenue per capita, and lowest expenditure per capita.

Murray's pseudo-urbanist solutions are almost disrespectful at this point, thinking he can promise the moon and stars to fix our city and then claim he doesn't need to raise tax to do it. He needs to pick a lane, instead of trying to appease fiscal Hawks and tax-and-spend urbanists. Does he really think he can fool the average voter with these tactics? Time will tell.

Fun fact: to all those who say a mayor should just focus on "growing the tax base instead of taxing everyone more", during Winnipeg's best years of growth in terms of population and permit values which occurred in the mid 2010s, the growth in the assessment base added approximately $6 million per year to the municipal budget. That's it. All those hundreds of millions of dollars of houses and malls and apartments and warehouses adds $6 million in revenue to our city every year. And guess what: the annual increase in the police budget simply due to wage increases (inflationary increases and merit increases) totalled $6 million annually. So all the new growth in the assessment base the city sees gets sucked up entirely by cops getting raises. And that's just one line item in one department. So no, we will never "growth the city" enough to bring in sufficient taxes to fix everything, because growth puts pressure on the city budget as well.

Disappointed in Murray, but he is really revealing his true nature the closer we get to election day. Eratic, unorganized, disconnect from reality, and hoping to fund his initiatives with magic money to win over conservatives and liberals alike. I still think he will win, but I'm much less optimistic about what his likely short tenure as mayor will look like. I'd expect he will jump ship to the next big opportunity the moment it presents itself once he realizes a "no tax increase" platform literally leaves him with no money to implement anything of substance.

Talk about a goof up. Even the fiscal hawk former finance chair realizes we need tax increases in excess of 3% just to stay afloat.
Bang on. I remember, maybe 16 or 17 years ago, someone summing Murray up as "an inch deep and a mile wide." That almost seems like a charitable way to put it now.
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  #812  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger View Post
We should all remember that the average municipal property tax bill across other major Canadian cities is around $2,900. In Winnipeg, it's $2,173 (includes frontage levy). If Winnipeggers had their property taxed at a rate that was closer to the Canadian average, the municipal budget would have an extra $250 million in revenue, every year.

No need to ask the province for 1% of the PST - something that no other city gets in Canada.
That is a good point. I appreciate your insight on budgetary matters.
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  #813  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by (sub)urban View Post
Klein would frustrate me but like, this isn't like previous elections where a Motkaluk/Katz level disaster was near the front of the pack in polls. Refreshing.
Having had Klein as my councilor since he was elected I was actually pleasantly surprised. Coming into Kline I had come from a ward where the councilor had figured out exactly how many polls they needed to win and focused their attention exclusively there. Obviously I was outside their chosen area and further they didn't live in the ward. We moved from that to Nordman and he was a very responsive and accessible councilor. In Kline's time in office he too has made himself accessible and is definitely open to rationally discussing topics and hearing views that aren't necessarily his own. He would likely make a good mayor but reality is it is too long a shot for him.
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  #814  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 3:14 PM
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To me Gillingham's policies are ok nothing special or grand but generally well thought out and acheivable. Couple that with him likely having far better relations with the province than Murray would have or that Bowman had things would likely get done whereas with Murray not very likely would probably be a lot of drama and fighting with the province.
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  #815  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 3:21 PM
WestEndWander WestEndWander is online now
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  #816  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 3:25 PM
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  #817  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 3:26 PM
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There's a less than zero chance of the PC's handing over 1% to the city. I would say the same of the NDP unless they raised PST by 1%.

Instead, the City should just raise property taxes.
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  #818  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 5:02 PM
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There's a less than zero chance of the PC's handing over 1% to the city. I would say the same of the NDP unless they raised PST by 1%.

Instead, the City should just raise property taxes.
Which the city actually has the power to do by the way, instead of begging someone else to do their dirty work. Weird times.
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  #819  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 5:03 PM
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its hard to put into words how terrible Murray's campaign has been....i wish there was another progressive candidate that could win.
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  #820  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2022, 5:20 PM
GreyGarden GreyGarden is online now
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Pretty depressing really. Murray still has a chance but I don’t feel good about him. I just really hope we don’t end up with some widen roads and fill potholes guy like Gillingham or Klein. The City feels stagnate and desperately needs anti-sprawl policies. Arguably so much more than other Canadian cities that already have sizeable downtown populations and vibrant inner cities. We’re playing from behind. If we’re not careful, I believe people and corporate Canada will continue to abandon inner city Winnipeg.
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