PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

What you are describing is essentially Chestnut Hill, no?

Too far out.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Even if they aren't singles, I wish Philadelphia had more neighborhoods with generous setbacks allowing for front gardens/greenery.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9088431,...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

There’s a fair amount in Spring Garden and Fairmount. And I suppose arguably, there’s the courts in Gray’s Ferry and Queen Village.

https://goo.gl/maps/cNsNLdu8h4Wo7V5d9

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Too far out.

What would be close enough? Mt Airy and Roxborough are like 7 miles from downtown. Germantown and East Falls are even closer. In all those areas front yard space is pretty standard. Most homes in Wynnefield and Overbrook also have generous setbacks- thats like 4-5 miles from center city.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Justin7

Not sure how this 1100 sqft argument began, but most of the buildings we're lamenting the loss of are well over 1100 sqft.

And a note about new vs old: Are single family 1100 sqft homes still being built? It seems to me that 1100 works much better as a single floor unit in a multifamily building than it does over of multiple floors in a single family.

if you are talking about having more than 1 or 2 people share limited space, there are advantages to multi floor living in terms of having some ability to separate people and activities from one another. A multi-floor house does sacrifice some space for a staircase, but beyond that there is nothing inherently inefficient about having more than one floor.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

What you are describing is essentially Chestnut Hill, no?

Although the homes are generally rows or twins, he could be talking about University City- although that may be "too far" from whatever reference point we are using.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Even if they aren't singles, I wish Philadelphia had more neighborhoods with generous setbacks allowing for front gardens/greenery.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9088431,...itch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Where are the areas of DC and Boston (near the core) that have large detached single family homes? I know they exist, just blanking. Chicago has a lot of them, including the gardens (shown above).

I don't necessarily mean detached (though that's one iteration). They could nearly go to the lot line. But single family and grand (wide, etc).

In DC, I'm thinking of Kalorama, Cleveland Park, Crestwood, and all of the neighborhoods you pass when you're inbound to DC from the Beltway on 16th St or Rhode Island Avenue.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I don't necessarily mean detached (though that's one iteration). They could nearly go to the lot line. But single family and grand (wide, etc).

In DC, I'm thinking of Kalorama, Cleveland Park, Crestwood, and all of the neighborhoods you pass when you're inbound to DC from the Beltway on 16th St or Rhode Island Avenue.

Clark Park/Walnut Hill still has a lot of beautiful SFH with yards.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

What would be close enough? Mt Airy and Roxborough are like 7 miles from downtown. Germantown and East Falls are even closer. In all those areas front yard space is pretty standard. Most homes in Wynnefield and Overbrook also have generous setbacks- thats like 4-5 miles from center city.

I'm thinking of something that's walkable to the central core.

Like Ansley Park in Atlanta (which sits behind the skyscrapers in Midtown).

Don't get me wrong, it's a gross misuse of space. But Philly still has enough empty space in town to accommodate something like it (at least as a placeholder) until there's even more need for the land. I dunno. I'm envisioning something like Girard Estate but in that location.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Clark Park/Walnut Hill still has a lot of beautiful SFH with yards.

Very true. If you think about it, most townhouses and row houses on the west side of the Schuykill have yards, wide porches and lots of vegetation. Too much for my taste personally. Would also add Powelton Village.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Clark Park/Walnut Hill still has a lot of beautiful SFH with yards.

This is true. Good point. But West Philly has its own vibe. I want Center City vibe but SFH.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This is true. Good point. But West Philly has its own vibe. I want Center City vibe but SFH.

Well a lot of the “Center City vibe” has to do with there being lots of tall buildings and tightly packed townhouses without yards in front. It ain’t Savannah lol.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

There’s a fair amount in Spring Garden and Fairmount. And I suppose arguably, there’s the courts in Gray’s Ferry and Queen Village.

https://goo.gl/maps/cNsNLdu8h4Wo7V5d9

I do love those parts of Fairmount & Spring Garden, Green Street in particular.

Though I wish this wart at 23rd/Green could be removed and replaced by something similar to the handsome townhomes just down the block or a small apartment building a setback, keep with the green trend. https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9655949,...pQ7oMY_P5wmcxSv8rL5Vg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Well a lot of the “Center City vibe” has to do with there being lots of tall buildings and tightly packed townhouses without yards in front. It ain’t Savannah lol.

Have to agree here. Density makes things walkable. CC is walkable because its so dense. So the question is "can we have less dense areas that are less walkable adjacent to the most walkable areas"? Seems paradoxical, no?

[Raja]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This is true. Good point. But West Philly has its own vibe. I want Center City vibe but SFH.

I know exactly what you're getting at. I've fantasized before about nabbing a couple adjacent lots in Poplar or Yorktown--heck, even the gratuitous lots around 13th/Bainbridge in Hawthorne--and building a proper home, with plenty of width and a garage on the alleyway. Notwithstanding the great urban scale that comes with the rowhouse, variety has inherent value too.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Have to agree here. Density makes things walkable. CC is walkable because its so dense. So the question is "can we have less dense areas that are less walkable adjacent to the most walkable areas"? Seems paradoxical, no?

Disagree.



Regardless of density, different types of people (from an ethos perspective) choose to live in West Philly versus Center City (and environs...Northern Liberties, Queen Village, Fishtown, etc).

[McBane]

I get it. There's a ton of such neighborhoods in Brookyln, Queens, and Chicago, too.

In Philly, there aren't as many similar areas. Pockets of NW Philly, but not as dense or walkable. Girard Estates was mentioned and that's the best example I can think of. It definitely has vibes of Southern Brooklyn with largish homes while still being dense, urban, and green.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by McBane

I get it. There's a ton of such neighborhoods in Brookyln, Queens, and Chicago, too.

In Philly, there aren't as many similar areas. Pockets of NW Philly, but not as dense or walkable. Girard Estates was mentioned and that's the best example I can think of. It definitely has vibes of Southern Brooklyn with largish homes while still being dense, urban, and green.

I understand the Girard Estates comparison. Philly just didn't build a lot of detached housing and the areas that are 'similar' often are duplex heavy instead of sfh. There are random blocks scattered throughout south philadelphia: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9285157,...Ua5uqnroYHCf9ZAMT6WIA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

and really the first place I thought of when I looked at the google streetviews you shared was the lower northeast like Mayfair/Tacony: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0369325,...3hT8IvGhgXwVVtnj6wE7g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by PHL10

Have to agree here. Density makes things walkable. CC is walkable because its so dense. So the question is "can we have less dense areas that are less walkable adjacent to the most walkable areas"? Seems paradoxical, no?

Agreed. Honestly, I’m starting to get confused by this discussion lol.

I guess some people want the pockets of detached homes similar to the outer areas of Brooklyn like Ditmas Park? I’ve been there once. It’s different but I can’t see that it’s particularly remarkable. It just feels like you’ve stumbled into an old suburban neighborhood with a lot of gritty urbanism around it.

LA tends to have a lot of these kinds of areas. I lived in one for a year. You feel like you should walk to cafes, restaurants and shopping but it always feels really awkward doing so lol.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Agreed. Honestly, I’m starting to get confused by this discussion lol.

I guess some people want the pockets of detached homes similar to the outer areas of Brooklyn like Ditmas Park? I’ve been there once. It’s different but I can’t see that it’s particularly remarkable. It just feels like you’ve stumbled into an old suburban neighborhood with a lot of gritty urbanism around it.

LA tends to have a lot of these kinds of areas. I lived in one for a year. You feel like you should walk to cafes, restaurants and shopping but it always feels really awkward doing so lol.

It's a completely hypothetical conversation. It's based on the working theory that eventually, the privately owned housing in West Poplar will be replaced by something else...and what else could that be? I'm just saying, given the larger lot sizes (which frankly are wider than a typical rowhome but not wide enough for 2 (i.e. for subdivision)), I'd like to see another housing typology that we don't really have here.

And that's large single family estate styled homes but close to downtown. This is literally the only place that could accomodate it.

And not for nothing, the whole of North Philadelphia was exactly just that in one of Philadelphia's previous gilded ages...so it's not actually out of keeping with the area.

Also. There's nothing gritty about Ditmas Park anymore.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

It's a completely hypothetical conversation. It's based on the working theory that eventually, the privately owned housing in West Poplar will be replaced by something else...and what else could that be? I'm just saying, given the larger lot sizes (which frankly are wider than a typical rowhome but not wide enough for 2 (i.e. for subdivision)), I'd like to see another housing typology that we don't really have here.

And that's large single family estate styled homes but close to downtown. This is literally the only place that could accomodate it.

And not for nothing, the whole of North Philadelphia was exactly just that in one of Philadelphia's previous gilded ages...so it's not actually out of keeping with the area.

Also. There's nothing gritty about Ditmas Park anymore.

These are the closest I could find to keeping that city feel but are still have the yard, and space for a full family, West poplar would fair well with these as a replacement.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3231+C...d2d3a4395!8m2!3d39.9088475!4d-75.1756674

Actually these are even better and respect the city rowhome architecture

https://www.google.com/maps/place/3200+P...521a54767a!8m2!3d39.9122819!4d-75.187939