Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Vin]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I mean... Burnaby is practically a woke city state now.

Woke or not, Burnabians obviously like their mayor, such that he is one of the few in BC being re-elected. Obviously there are results that people in Burnaby are happy with. Congratulations again Burnaby!

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I’m hopeful for the future as well. Unlike you, I don’t take pleasure in focusing on the negative.

You’re not right about any other topics you discuss here, but hopefully you’re right about this change.

That's what you love to think.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Correct analysis! Smart voters lean towards ABC because nobody wants split votes to allow the lousy incumbent to continue holding on to power. ABC has a pretty good platform, and so does NPA, but it just happens that Ken Sim and his party are a lot more popular.

Another thing I want to point out is that both Forward Together and NPA continuously ran negative ad campaigns against Ken Sim and ABC, which are totally uncalled for. We all want to listen to positive platforms from political parties, not smearing campaigns. This probably p*ssed off many here, including myself.

All the very best to the newly elected mayor and city council!

If you can't see the differences between the ABC platform, and that of the NPA, it explains some of your comments on other topics.

And ABC ran a negative campaign about Kennedy Stewart and road taxes (that wasn't particularly honest either).

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

I saw a tagger once in my neighbourhood and called the police. He got arrested. I don't care if he is released, but he now has a record with VPD and may think twice before vandalizing stuff again. Ever heard of deterrence?

So there were no more tags in your neighbourhood after that? Remarkable!

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I was picking up on your last comment about the state of the city, and was pointing out that the gross behavior has an explanation, and potentially a solution.

[officedweller]

Opinion: Vancouver joins San Francisco in embracing common-sense politics
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-san-francisco-crime-politics

I would venture to guess that the Vancouver Police Union supporting Ken Sim showed a similar disconnect between the "on the ground" police officers and the policy makers here, as was the case in San Fransisco.

[GenWhy?]

Who was "soft on crime"? The 5 original NPA councilors? The Greens? The police? Who did the "radical activists" take over at city hall?

[chowhou]

Any time a politician or political commentator mentions "common sense politics", 9 out of 10 times they're talking out of their ass. "Common sense politics" always means "policy which I like". It's a dumb phrase.

"Common sense gun control" = uhh ban big scary guns
"Common sense policing" = uhh police good more police better
"Common sense permitting" = uhh approve faster but not stuff i dont like
"Common sense taxation" = uhh tax less

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

So there were no more tags in your neighbourhood after that? Remarkable!

They are under control, unlike yours.

Originally Posted by Changing City

If you can't see the differences between the ABC platform, and that of the NPA, it explains some of your comments on other topics.

And ABC ran a negative campaign about Kennedy Stewart and road taxes (that wasn't particularly honest either).

I can see the differences, although by-and-large there are many similarities. Certainly very different from Kennedy's that's for sure. With your thoughts, maybe that explains why you tolerate your own neighbourhood to become the blight it is now.

As for ABC's claim that Kennedy Stewart's Council supported the road tax, here you go:

The Vancouver Road Tax Wars
https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2022/10/12/Vancouver-Road-Tax-Wars/

Stewart may not be actively supporting the tax, but he allowed this to happen WITHOUT vehemently opposing it. How convenient to finally emerge to say that he "did not support" the tax just a month before elections, when he came to know this tax proposal was hugely unpopular. He should have done so from the get-go, but he certainly did not. Who can blame ABC and the rest of Vancouver that Stewart was indeed going with the flow of his own City Hall team back then?

So no, ABC did not run a negative campaign on Stewart like you claimed: they were just claiming how they were going to change the status quo of Stewart's government, like how they were handling crime and lawlessness. There were no TV ads like the smear campaigns from Kennedy Stewart.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

They are under control, unlike yours.

So, you saw a person tagging, called the police, and now the tagging is under control. What exactly do you mean? There was only one tagger? There are still other taggers still tagging, but their tags are neater? You make it sound like tagging isn't an issue in your part of the city then, so liveability (in terms of graffiti) isn't in decline.

I agree the tagging is much more prevelent in parts of the city (although not in my neighbourhood) which is why I suggested a way it might be supressed. If the police catch the taggers, that's great, but I can't remember seeing anyone tagging, although I walk through chinatown several times a week - it generally seems to happen overnight.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Opinion: Vancouver joins San Francisco in embracing common-sense politics
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-san-francisco-crime-politics

I would venture to guess that the Vancouver Police Union supporting Ken Sim showed a similar disconnect between the "on the ground" police officers and the policy makers here, as was the case in San Fransisco.

Big win that's for sure!

We have these people here to ruin the party:

This gaslighting was ultimately fuelled by middle-class, ultra-progressive activists who, often living in comfortable neighbourhoods, cannot fathom that crime actually harms people and is not an abstract concept. For this crowd, militant opposition to policing, which includes minimizing crime, is a status symbol — a badge of purity bought at the expense of other people’s safety.

Sounds so familiar, doesn't it?

This crowd often cited statistics showing that overall crime rates in Vancouver are declining, without acknowledging how, despite this, violent crime has nonetheless been measurably rising downtown. Similarly, they failed to consider how sample biases could conceal the full extent of crime. For example, some business owners have apparently stopped reporting crime, as they are overwhelmed and feel dejected by the broken revolving-door justice system.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

So, you saw a person tagging, called the police, and now the tagging is under control. What exactly do you mean? There was only one tagger? There are still other taggers still tagging, but their tags are neater? You make it sound like tagging isn't an issue in your part of the city then, so liveability (in terms of graffiti) isn't in decline.

I agree the tagging is much more prevelent in parts of the city (although not in my neighbourhood) which is why I suggested a way it might be supressed. If the police catch the taggers, that's great, but I can't remember seeing anyone tagging, although I walk through chinatown several times a week - it generally seems to happen overnight.

Do you think I'm the only resident living there with common sense and good civic duty? Even then there's a limit as to what residents can do when the City allows taggers to run amok, especially when police budgets are cut. You should know better.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Do you think I'm the only resident living there with common sense and good civic duty? Even then there's a limit as to what residents can do when the City allows taggers to run amok, especially when police budgets are cut. You should know better.

What do you mean, the City allows taggers to run amok? Surely it's the VPD who might be able to do something about it? The police budget wasn't cut. (It was proposed, but then reinstated. You should know better).

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Vin

Funny that so many individuals who deny about the serious social and crime problems in Vancouver also "voted" for a mayor and party who think that there are major City issues left over by previous administrations, and then these folks are also doubtful that this mayor can make positive changes to this City (since they think the status quo isn't all that bad). My question is, why not vote for the incumbent if Vancouver has been doing so well all along as per your logic?

Hypocrisy at its best I reckon.

I guess I would also think this way if I lacked reading comprehension skills and could only think of issues in black and white terms.

[SpongeG]

I was walking past the Parq Casino last evening and the area was really busy people with kids etc and there were two guys sitting on the bench by the sidewalk shooting up, the guy had the needle sitting there stuck in his hand. Felt sorry for the parents having to explain to their kids whats going on.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

So, you saw a person tagging, called the police, and now the tagging is under control. What exactly do you mean? There was only one tagger? There are still other taggers still tagging, but their tags are neater? You make it sound like tagging isn't an issue in your part of the city then, so liveability (in terms of graffiti) isn't in decline.

I'd bet this story all took place in his head.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Vin

Sounds so familiar, doesn't it?

The "progressives" on this forum never tried to deny that crime is happening or that crime hurts people. We always made two points:
1. Constantly reposting violent crime that is still extremely rare (although not as rare as we all would like it to be) does nothing to help the situation. Instead, it scares people who live in the suburbs or peripheral neighborhoods from travelling to Chinatown or Gastown and supporting businesses which were hit hard by the pandemic. Fear mongering perpetuates these issues: "This neighbourhood isn't safe" *fewer people visit the neighbourhood* "This neighbourhood is even less safe than before". When I say that my wife and I have visited New Town Bakery in Chinatown numerous times in the past few months and have never been assaulted, that is meant to encourage our neighbours and others to support those businesses and see what these "dangerous neighbourhoods" are like first-hand, not to deny that there are increasing rates of Asian hate crime or that residents on Hastings feel uncomfortable because of the tents.
2. It is always laudable to strive for better and try to reduce crime of all sorts: violent crime, petty crime, etc. But these goals must be balanced. For example, is it more helpful to throw a non-violent drug user in prison or to surround them with safe supply and other supportive services so they can be a productive member of society. I think the vast majority of progressives who don't recoil at calls to "defund the police" actually want something like "allocate more funds to mental health and other community services".

If you want to pretend that all progressives live in Point Grey and deny that some people have been really hurt by the toxic drug crisis, the pandemic, and the skyrocketing cost of living, then go ahead. But I don't think that's at all a fair perception when many of us live in neighbourhoods or have friends or family that have been negatively impacted by these issues too.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Felt sorry for the parents having to explain to their kids whats going on.

I dunno, my job as a parent isn't to insulate my daughter from the challenges other people face. I think explaining to an eight year-old why some people are addicted to drugs is a hard conversation that should probably be had. In fact, if our kids understand what other people go through and have empathy for them, maybe our society will be better off in the future.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I dunno, my job as a parent isn't to insulate my daughter from the challenges other people face. I think explaining to an eight year-old why some people are addicted to drugs is a hard conversation that should probably be had. In fact, if our kids understand what other people go through and have empathy for them, maybe our society will be better off in the future.

There's a difference between talking about drugs and somebody having a needle hanging out of their arm in a stupor.

[jollyburger]

A Burnaby RCMP officer has been killed.

According to sources, the female officer was stabbed while assisting a bylaw officer with a call at Broadview Park along Canada Way. Word of the officer’s death has prompted an outpouring of support from police unions and officers both in and outside of B.C., as well as other officials.

People in Burnaby are being asked to avoid a major stretch of Canada Way between Boundary Road and Willingdon Avenue.

Initially, the RCMP referred to what was happening as an “unfolding incident.” It added, “there does not appear to be any ongoing risk to the public.”

The Independent Investigations Office of BC (IIO) has deployed its members to the scene. The police watchdog was not able to release any other information.

Some people continue to report a large police presence in the area. Images shared with CityNews also show several police vehicles blocking streets.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/10/18/burnaby-rcmp-incident/

[whatnext]

Not Vancouver but terrible nonetheless:

Burnaby, B.C. RCMP officer fatally stabbed while assisting bylaw officers at homeless camp

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2022/10/18/burnaby-rcmp-incident/

A Burnaby RCMP officer has been killed...He added, “there does not appear to be any ongoing risk to the public.”

I'm mad! and are you kidding me "no ongoing risk to the public"
A cop was stabbed to death and you're saying there is no risk to the public I'M LOOSING IT !