Regina - Downtown Catalyst Projects Discussion

[Newstart]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

Rose and 11th is the perfect location.

Most vacant block downtown.

Access to Broad directly.

Across from a parkade.

Immense infill opportunity around.

No heritage buildings demolished.

Ample restaurants around.

Ideal transit access.

It's the single best option in the city. Any other location will be viewed as a failure for generations.

Ok. So playing devils advocate...

Wouldn't the perfect location be where...
-there is ample surface parking with NO parking structures required in order to accommodate parking,
-there is an existing arena aka existing various infrastructure already in place,
-there is an existing exhibition center,
-there is an existing Stadium,
- the land is CITY owned which then negates the need to negotiate with a private land owner
- there is NO road/traffic infrastructure re-routing or re-configuring

My humble opinion...speaking from an urban planning/design standpoint building on the Ex-Taylor field location and encouraging development on the West side of downtown makes a helluva lot more sense between the restaurants/bars/relationship with Cathederal and the fact a grocery store doesn't become an immediate necessity as there is one 3 blocks down 13th from Albert. The east side of the downtown core is a lot grungier, takes a lot more to get people to be excited about living Downtown.

[Newstart]

Originally Posted by djforsberg

The old Taylor field site makes absolutely no sense. It’s a disadvantaged residential community and an arena there would not help it nor would it be attractive to potential event-goers.

It also doesn’t make sense to build another arena where one already exists.

It also doesn’t make sense to have the arena away from a density of restaurants and pubs. It might make sense to walk from Mosaic Stadium for after-game activities after football games on mostly warm-weather games. It is not the case for Pats games, most of which are in winter.

Ok. So if it doesn't make sense to build a hockey arena where an existing one is...what is the point in building a hockey arena? I thought the point of building an new Arena was to increase capacity...from 6,500 to 10,000 or some people seem to think 15,000...

Just as a point of interest the largest arena outside of Vancouver is in Victoria at 7,500. This Arena attracts all the biggest names from Elton John on down...

So if it isn't Taylor Field, for reasons which seem to be trumpeted to build an Arena Downtown where there is no infrastructure and exponentially more costs is to revitalize and spurn growth what would happen if an Arena was built at Taylor Field...wouldn't that spurn growth and change in the neighborhood? And on the premise the neighborhood is too rough? Than Railyards. knock a few million off the cost of the land. knock a few million off the build cost to say the least.

As for building a new arena at REAL, if the purpose of a new arena is to drive economic growth, better concerts, better events etc, wouldn't building an Arena where all the infrastructure is already in place? I mean keeping in mind as it stands there is not public money jumping at this to build an arena. 133 Million was the cost of MTS Centre in Winnipeg with a NHL Team kicking up 93 Million of the costs, the balance being funded by Fed/Prov/Muni. At a capacity of just over 16,000...the Population of Winnipeg is 750,000...

Why does Regina at CMA of round 250,000 population need a 12,000-15,000 Seat Arena for the Pats? When the Pats were acquired from the Parker Family in 2014 for 7.5 Million the Winnipeg Jets were worth 358 Million...today? the Jets are worth 575 Million If its for concerts and shows? Save on Food Memorial Arena in Victoria which is 7,500 Seat Arena and one of the largest arenas outside of Vancouver in BC with a CMA Population of shy of 400,000...brings in some of the biggest names in Arts and Entertainment...

I'm really failing to see why Regina needs an Arena comparable to Winnipeg or other Cities with populations 3,4,5 times that of Reginas with NHL Teams...And before we compare to Saskatoon SaskTel Place started out much smaller and was expanded to its current capacity a far different business case. a 8000-10000 Seat Arena with future expandability in a location part of a large facility in close proximity to Downtown would make the most fiscal, business, and economic sense with shuttle or increased transit access to Downtown. An arena won't spur Condos being built in Downtown Regina...

[jigglysquishy]

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[esquire]

I wouldn't expect a ton of spinoff developments from a new arena. Nobody is going to knock up a 40-storey condo tower so people can live across the street from the Pats. Realistic best case maybe a hotel, a modest condo/apartment building and some offices with a few restaurants at the base. Not a lot, but enough to put some shine on Broad. Anything more than that would probably have to be heavily subsidized (e.g., Edmonton). But building at the Taylor Field site or at the current location site would probably preclude even that from happening... I wouldn't expect anything in terms of spinoffs from those sites.

[jigglysquishy]

A new arena downtown isn't a silver bullet.

But it will lead to new restaurants and shops. It will lead to a new hotel. It will lead to better transit access. It might even get us a new apartment building.

We need more reasons for people to come downtown. And an arena is a great promoter

[esquire]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

A new arena downtown isn't a silver bullet.

But it will lead to new restaurants and shops. It will lead to a new hotel. It will lead to better transit access. It might even get us a new apartment building.

We need more reasons for people to come downtown. And an arena is a great promoter

Yeah... if it has to go somewhere, it might as well go downtown. And there is certainly room for it.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

A new arena downtown isn't a silver bullet.

But it will lead to new restaurants and shops. It will lead to a new hotel. It will lead to better transit access. It might even get us a new apartment building.

We need more reasons for people to come downtown. And an arena is a great promoter

I agree with this. Generally, politicians need to stop looking for the "quick win" for downtown revitalization. It doesn't exist. An arena doesn't do it, a convention centre wouldn't do it, better parking doesn't do it, and so on. Revitalizing a downtown happens by bringing as many uses and functions downtown as possible. One layered on top of another. Our downtown struggles because it does one function really great (office) and a range of other functions pretty poorly (retail, entertainment, housing).

If my end goal was downtown revitalization, I could find a better way to allocate $100 - $200M than on an arena. However, if an arena is coming, it should be downtown as that makes the most sense for potential/possible impacts it may have.

All that being said - the proposed location is awful. Tearing down the types of activities and buildings we want downtown in hopes that a new arena might lead to construction of the types of buildings and uses that were just torn down. Makes one's head spin. The Catalyst Committee should open up and dust off the underutilized land study to find a more suitable location that could use something like this...

[roryn1]

Originally Posted by The mayor

The whole downtown core is the embarrassment of Canada , I don’t think one major new building has been built there in the last ten years , they keep using the excuse we have to study the study that’s been studied , where do these ////// Councillors come from

A good comparable downtown I think is Sudbury. I wonder if they have any strategies that could be used by Regina for their own rejuvenation.

[aberrant]

Originally Posted by CCF

I agree with this. Generally, politicians need to stop looking for the "quick win" for downtown revitalization. It doesn't exist. An arena doesn't do it, a convention centre wouldn't do it, better parking doesn't do it, and so on. Revitalizing a downtown happens by bringing as many uses and functions downtown as possible. One layered on top of another. Our downtown struggles because it does one function really great (office) and a range of other functions pretty poorly (retail, entertainment, housing).

If my end goal was downtown revitalization, I could find a better way to allocate $100 - $200M than on an arena. However, if an arena is coming, it should be downtown as that makes the most sense for potential/possible impacts it may have.

All that being said - the proposed location is awful. Tearing down the types of activities and buildings we want downtown in hopes that a new arena might lead to construction of the types of buildings and uses that were just torn down. Makes one's head spin. The Catalyst Committee should open up and dust off the underutilized land study to find a more suitable location that could use something like this...

I agree with all of this, and have been telling councillors, city admin, and the arena/catalyst committee as such for years.

Same with advocating for Broad/Rose & 11th Ave as the ideal location for a new arena, if it is a must have.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Well this mornings walk was interupted with two guys jumping out of a truck to confront one of the homeless about stealing boots.

So much screaming, swearing and threatening.

No one wants to be downtown if they don't have to be there. Council should work on fixing the broken social structure. The rest might actually take care of itself.

[WhipperSnapper]

Development from arenas/ stadium are grossly embellished to make the public input more palatable. I wouldn't count on apartments or hotels without further public investment or preexisting interest.

[Newstart]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Development from arenas/ stadium are grossly embellished to make the public input more palatable. I wouldn't count on apartments or hotels without further public investment or preexisting interest.

Precisely. An arena is NOT a Catalyst to new housing/hotels etc etc.

100 Mill - 200 Mill would go a lot further with other investments for revitalizing downtown Regina.

[esquire]

I would consider the arena itself to be the improvement to downtown Regina. You can probably expect a hotel and a couple of restaurants to go with it and that's fine. Maybe an apartment building and/or an office, that would make it a home run. But I'd keep expectations in check.

I mean, look at Moose Jaw. They built a huge and spectacular (relative to the city's size) downtown arena and while the main drag has probably benefitted a bit from it, the side streets adjacent to the arena are still downright barren. There is only so much that an arena can do on its own. That's not to say it isn't worth building as a civic amenity, but unless you're talking some MSG or Crypto.com-level arena, it won't transform the area single-handedly.

[StealthGirl]

The survey is available online. You should all go fill it out.

https://beheard.regina.ca/catalyst-committee

[Newstart]

Originally Posted by esquire

I would consider the arena itself to be the improvement to downtown Regina. You can probably expect a hotel and a couple of restaurants to go with it and that's fine. Maybe an apartment building and/or an office, that would make it a home run. But I'd keep expectations in check.

I mean, look at Moose Jaw. They built a huge and spectacular (relative to the city's size) downtown arena and while the main drag has probably benefitted a bit from it, the side streets adjacent to the arena are still downright barren. There is only so much that an arena can do on its own. That's not to say it isn't worth building as a civic amenity, but unless you're talking some MSG or Crypto.com-level arena, it won't transform the area single-handedly.

GM place was built in 1994 in Vancouver. They didn't start directly building house/hotels adjacent to it until nearly 20 years after it was built, same with BC Place...The idea that an Arena in Downtown Regina would immediately spur in the short to mid-term any form of Residential Housing is quite far fetched. Saddledome was built and spurred no housing until now.

Edmonton, Vancouver, and Winnipeg had the actual owner of the Arena start the process of developing the land directly. Katz, Aquilini, True North.

So are the Semples going to kick up the majority of the funds? and then kick start residential development immediately adjacent?...

[one_brick_at_a_time]

Originally Posted by StealthGirl

The survey is available online. You should all go fill it out.

https://beheard.regina.ca/catalyst-committee

Done!

[Stormer]

I for one am interested to see how the preferred block for the arena was chosen and how they will deal with the heritage buildings. I assume the fact that the land is nearly all controlled by government factored into it. I also feel that the Broad Street area would be better.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Development from arenas/ stadium are grossly embellished to make the public input more palatable. I wouldn't count on apartments or hotels without further public investment or preexisting interest.

I would generally agree with this - especially because arenas displace developable land and generally do not pay property taxes. Also they tend to count development that would have happened regardless.

[one_brick_at_a_time]

And so the NIMBY’s of downtown have begun LOL. First of all it, it wouldn’t be an open air facility regarding the kind of sound that comes from Mosaic. Also, a successful downtown is supposed to be full of activity and noise. Downtown Toronto is always full of sounds. Yes not optimal but you get used to it. Otherwise you move to the suburbs or country. Regina downtown is a pin drop sound to what Toronto is, even with a new arena being built there.

…“Concerns were raised about where the arena is to be placed. Kelly Miller came with concerns about a new facility being built downtown.

“I live close enough to (Mosaic Stadium) that I can hear the games from my home, or the concerts from my home. It’s going to be even harder downtown,” said Miller.

Miller is concerned about the noise with all the seniors apartments downtown. Furthermore, if the facility is built downtown, Miller said there could be concerns over lack of parking.“

https://www.cjme.com/2022/10/17/regina-r...-recreation-and-revitalization-projects/

[Festivus]

Leave it to Regina to finally put something important downtown...and then likely choose the worst location that requires demolishing a bunch of decent buildings (instead of the near-empty lot on a main drag). Based on Regina's entire existence and history being based on land scandals, I can only assume someone knows someone who owns some land and will make a bunch of money.