Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[rockies]

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho

They're maximizing individual pockets of areas into self-contained entertainment districts, so you feel like you can have a good time in any one of them. SLC hasn't yet maximized even one area; Main Street is a good start with closing off the street for more pedestrian engagement, and the Gateway is making a valiant effort to be an entertainment destination. But to have good nightlife you need a mix of lots of different types of businesses willing to stay open late. You need the restaurants to feed into the bars, that then feed into the late night pizza joints for your post-party munchies. It's almost like an ecosystem that has a symbiotic relationship all to itself.

Can SLC ever have a truly good nightlife scene? I agree with your comments on the ecosystem but I think the situation is pretty hopeless at this point. Bars and clubs have to stop serving alcohol when the party is just getting started elsewhere... that is not even mentioning the liquor store, transit, and homelessness situations that make nightlife more difficult... I have been living in a much larger city for the last few months and it is opening my eyes to how much of a ghost town SLC is at night. We know what needs to change but I don't think said change is on the horizon

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by rockies

Can SLC ever have a truly good nightlife scene? I agree with your comments on the ecosystem but I think the situation is pretty hopeless at this point. Bars and clubs have to stop serving alcohol when the party is just getting started elsewhere... that is not even mentioning the liquor store, transit, and homelessness situations that make nightlife more difficult... I have been living in a much larger city for the last few months and it is opening my eyes to how much of a ghost town SLC is at night. We know what needs to change but I don't think said change is on the horizon

As an F&B owner/operator, let me tell you this: 1am closing time is the last concern I have with our liquor laws. A solid chunk of good bars around the planet close then or earlier. Most great bars in London close at 1am, Edinburgh, 12am if you're lucky. I have friend whose bars close at 4am (Nashville, Austin) and they almost always hate it. 12am on, most trouble incidents happen. I'm talking bars, not clubs. Clubs are a different story, and they typically do whatever they want anyway, but I don't care about clubs at all.

Our nightlife scene is developing fast. It's nowhere near where it should/could be but we have an absolutely HUGE year coming up for openings. Hundreds of restaurants, bars, breweries, distilleries, cideries, food halls, hotels etc are opening in the next 12 months. We real liquor reforms to help us along, but I'd put being open beyond 1am at the bottom of the list. Alas, the legislature has no idea how alcohol works, so here we are.

[msbutah]

Yeah at this point the artificial constraint on bar licenses seems to be the largest roadblock for a lot of businesses. Ben Winslow live-tweets the DABC meetings and every meeting they have far more businesses asking for licenses than they have to give. Back in August they had fourteen businesses in line and three licenses to give.

[Rileybo]

I dunno what y’all are smoking but ever since Dave and Busters opened at Gateway a few years ago downtown has been straight poppin’ at night. And that new coat of white paint is so hip and fresh, man everyone wants to party in that.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by rockies

Can SLC ever have a truly good nightlife scene?

Yes, since more and more people not of our dominant religion (or who have left said religion) are moving into Salt Lake City, and wanting more options. Downtown is thriving right now compared to where it's been at any other point in recent history. Covid seems to have been more of a blip for us than a massive setback like it was in some cities (for better or worse).

Of course, it would help a LOT if the legislature would get out of the way and let the *gasp* free market actually determine the level of demand for alcohol.

[Reeder113]

Worthington - week of 10/10. Original post by u/HossTR on the DevelopmentSLC subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DevelopmentSLC/comments/y0ntvv/worthington_week_of_1010/

[Reeder113]

A few shots of some downtown projects. Original post by u/SLCLvr on the DevelopmentSLC subreddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DevelopmentSLC/comments/xzuby2/downtown_today/

[Reeder113]

.

[ucsbgaucho]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Yes, since more and more people not of our dominant religion (or who have left said religion) are moving into Salt Lake City, and wanting more options. Downtown is thriving right now compared to where it's been at any other point in recent history. Covid seems to have been more of a blip for us than a massive setback like it was in some cities (for better or worse).

Of course, it would help a LOT if the legislature would get out of the way and let the *gasp* free market actually determine the level of demand for alcohol.

I wasn't here in 2002 but I know the Olympics were the catalyst for a lot of the past changes in the liquor laws, and the return of the Olympics in 2030 or 2034 will do the same. I laugh also that they're talking about doing a "Spirit Halloween" model for pop-up liquor stores around downtown when the NBA All-Star game comes in February next year. So they know the need for more access to liquor is important, but it's always for the outside perception of Utah and not the day-to-day operations for those that live here.

Thankfully the tide is all pushing in one direction and the DABS is slowly moving to accommodate, even though they're probably 2 - 5 years behind the times. It's like highway construction in any state; they build 1 new lane when they needed 2, and then add that 2nd lane 10 years later when now they need 3. DABS is just now considering the ability to order liquor online, but only have it shipped to a state liquor store, when the free market started doing that 5 years ago.

Just as a comparison, the Utah law is 1 license per 10,200 residents. It actually was 1 per 7,850 before the "zion curtain" law was removed. The CA law is 1 license per 2,000 residents.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho

Thankfully the tide is all pushing in one direction and the DABS is slowly moving to accommodate, even though they're probably 2 - 5 years behind the times. It's like highway construction in any state; they build 1 new lane when they needed 2, and then add that 2nd lane 10 years later when now they need 3. DABS is just now considering the ability to order liquor online, but only have it shipped to a state liquor store, when the free market started doing that 5 years ago.

Just as a comparison, the Utah law is 1 license per 10,200 residents. It actually was 1 per 7,850 before the "zion curtain" law was removed. The CA law is 1 license per 2,000 residents.

The Artist Formerly Known as the UDABC is mostly responsible for the terrible robot product ordering/re-ordering system and the constant lack of good boutique product, especially spirits, necessitating good bars clogging up the special order system, but that's another story. The rest of the BS we deal with is the direct responsibility of our clownass legislature. The UDABS gets to take crappy laws, which compound over the years into an unworkable, unreadable mess, and interpret them into psuedo-workable regulation.

You're right about the backlog of bar licenses. I was in the room, with witnesses, when they promised the increased population quota was "temporary" to account for the surplus of licenses that would hit because they phased out Dining Clubs during the Zion curtain horse-trading. The other goodie by the legislature was them removing the ability to buy licenses and move them last year, deleting a key pressure release valve from the license backlog. The other main issue is that the existing restaurant regulations just aren't workable for about 30% of restaurants, so they apply for bar licenses, increasing the backlog. It's a never-ending shitfarm up and down. We all collectively brace ourselves for new levels of suck every February, once the bagmen for the Church reveal their surprise alcohol bill at the tail end of the session.

[Dallas Snob]

Im not trying to cause any problems, just pointing out that words and phrases could offend people. Especially people of the LDS faith on this particular forum. We should try to get our point across without using inflammatory language. TY

[rockies]

Originally Posted by Marvland

As an F&B owner/operator, let me tell you this: 1am closing time is the last concern I have with our liquor laws. 12am on, most trouble incidents happen. I'm talking bars, not clubs. Clubs are a different story, and they typically do whatever they want anyway, but I don't care about clubs at all.

I think we have different ideas of what late night is and your examples aren't exactly what comes to my mind when I think of nightlife--but I do agree with your point that liquor licenses are the more glaring issue. I was just trying to express, like others, that the state is way too involved in hindering nightlife (esp given how young the population is). Are there any examples of states abolishing DABS-style liquor stores and allowing purchase at normal stores?

[Sight-Seer]

I drove by the Astra last week and after two or three more stories you'll be able to see the core from the south above the hotel that is in front of it. That's pretty exciting. They're doing about a floor a week. I also drove by the Worthington and I don't see a core yet. Could it be that they are building it without a core?

[Reeder113]

As posted by u/wow-how-original on reddit.

"A few projects in one shot. Astra at bottom left, 255 State at bottom right, Worthington above that, and Cottonwood Broadway (aka Spaceball I) above that."

https://www.reddit.com/r/DevelopmentSLC/...ojects_in_one_shot_astra_at_bottom_left/

[bob rulz]

255 State is a nice piece of infill. Definitely makes me wish it was taller.

[bflatflat9]

Originally Posted by Dallas Snob

Im not trying to cause any problems, just pointing out that words and phrases could offend people. Especially people of the LDS faith on this particular forum. We should try to get our point across without using inflammatory language. TY

Kind of like the reference to their headquarter building being a giant phallus, spewing spooge across the city?? a few posts back?

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Dallas Snob

Im not trying to cause any problems, just pointing out that words and phrases could offend people. Especially people of the LDS faith on this particular forum. We should try to get our point across without using inflammatory language. TY

No offense intended, but Church involvement in alcohol laws is a huge development issue and this is a development thread. If you are referring to my "once the bagmen for the Church reveal their surprise alcohol bill at the tail end of the session" comment, I apologize. Let me phrase it thus: "once the representatives specifically charged with drafting alcohol legislation for the Church reveal their surprise alcohol bill at the tail end of the session". Because that is exactly what happens with alcohol legislation. This is not a secret on the hill and they tell you as much, and they are PROUD of it. I've spent a lot of time up there on these issues. Our industry is basically negotiating with the Church through a designated combination of Rep and Senator (both Mormon) that are assigned to that post. It's gross and it's reality.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by rockies

I think we have different ideas of what late night is and your examples aren't exactly what comes to my mind when I think of nightlife--but I do agree with your point that liquor licenses are the more glaring issue. I was just trying to express, like others, that the state is way too involved in hindering nightlife (esp given how young the population is). Are there any examples of states abolishing DABS-style liquor stores and allowing purchase at normal stores?

Last state to privatize state/communist control over liquor was Washington on 2011 via a referendum. It was a rough transition but it was the right one.

[Utah_Dave]

I for sure appreciate the inside perspective Marvland. The reality you describe is very much what what I envisioned but could not confirm from the outside looking in. Please post more as you are an excellent source for this type of information.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Utah_Dave

I for sure appreciate the inside perspective Marvland. The reality you describe is very much what what I envisioned but could not confirm from the outside looking in. Please post more as you are an excellent source for this type of information.

Thanks Utah Dave. Again not really wanting to target the predominant faith, it's just important that folks know how the sausage gets made on the hill (and it's not pretty). Session is one of the most depressing and weird times of the year. The hill is a mess on many fronts not just alcohol stuff. Our lack of vision transit/UDOT/TRAX, prison relocation and Inland Port mess for example. These things all affect urban development.

I know there are a couple of other forum members that are part of the culture, arts and F&B world in SLC. We all love big shiny new buildings but in reality culture is the most important aspect of a city. For example when I'm in London or Paris it's nice to see the big aggressive architectural buildings. But I basically spend zero time in pursuing them or being around them. I'm soaking up the history, the parks, music, the restaurants and bars and museums. Salt Lake has some amazing assets to be really proud of, primarily our unequalled access to wilderness and outdoor stuff and another is our distinct neighborhoods and districts. Our cultural scene is young and exploding and really fun to be a part of if you value those things.