DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Yes. I think the big drawback to Denver is people are rude here. Very rude, in an almost backwater way.

Not really joking when I ask this, but do you have a noticeable Texas accent? You might be confusing rude with hostility.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Denverinfill recently posted a GOLIATH roundup regarding the North quadrant of RiNo. There are 22 projects in total that they cover. Absolutely insane

https://denverinfill.com/2022/09/river-north-north-roundup-sep-2022.html

Originally Posted by TakeFive

BTW, that post caused rapid onset for a headache. Who can keep track of all that '🞵🞵🞵🞵'?

Man… That post was a bear to write but I’m glad I finally got done with it. The “East quadrant” and Cole that’s coming up next isn’t much smaller. There’s just so much going on up there. In the future though, things will probably tame down as some of those concept plans are expected to fall off.

As far as keeping track of everything.. We have a (don’t mean to boast) beautiful spreadsheet. It’s carefully crafted to make data entry from e-permits graceful, track when our last post was on said project while giving us an easy glance at all the project stats and statuses.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Man… That post was a bear to write but I’m glad I finally got done with it. The “East quadrant” and Cole that’s coming up next isn’t much smaller. There’s just so much going on up there. In the future though, things will probably tame down as some of those concept plans are expected to fall off.

As far as keeping track of everything.. We have a (don’t mean to boast) beautiful spreadsheet. It’s carefully crafted to make data entry from e-permits graceful, track when our last post was on said project while giving us an easy glance at all the project stats and statuses.

You able to port data from e-permits or is it a manual thumb jam process? Just curious on that.


That post was almost too much to go through- thank you for all of the effort. It's still crazy to me how much is going into RiNo and how it's ultimately going to expand the concept of what is considered to be the urban core, aka "downtown" for the general populace. Couple it with GT, Arapahoe Square, and (eventually) River Mile and you're going to have more and more folks having to think about central core neighborhoods as separate destinations.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

You able to port data from e-permits or is a manual thumb jam process?


Just curious on that one.

And that post was almost too much to go through. It's still crazy to me how much is going into RiNo and how it's ultimately going to expand the concept of what is considered to be the urban core for the general populace.

Unfortunately it’s all a manual process right now. I’m sure there’s a way we can create a “listener” for a certain project master record that would record or notify us of any changes but that’s a lot of work to implement, at least for me. Luckily the fields are basic and it only takes around a minute to fill a line out.

That post was on the cusp of too large but I don’t think there will be any that size in the future unless River Mile and Ball take off at the same time or something.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Two specific "likes" about that post

1) The Arkins Promenade insert and 2) the funky Vib Hotel RiNo which I rather like. Props to Best Western.

Has anyone else actually been to the Arkins promenade? Thoughts about it? I have to admit, it feels like a bit of a missed opportunity. The ramps, which were specifically intended to provide wheelchair access, feel too narrow and if that place ever gets busy, they seem woefully undersized. There are some cool hidden components I can see kids loving, but generally the whole thing seems under-utilized and a bit of a miss. Maybe it was a budget thing, who knows, but it sure feels like more could have been done, especially with regards to landscaping and greenery. That said, it's still pretty cool and is a nice amenity along an improving river frontage.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by laniroj

Has anyone else actually been to the Arkins promenade? Thoughts about it? I have to admit, it feels like a bit of a missed opportunity. The ramps, which were specifically intended to provide wheelchair access, feel too narrow and if that place ever gets busy, they seem woefully undersized. There are some cool hidden components I can see kids loving, but generally the whole thing seems under-utilized and a bit of a miss. Maybe it was a budget thing, who knows, but it sure feels like more could have been done, especially with regards to landscaping and greenery. That said, it's still pretty cool and is a nice amenity along an improving river frontage.

Feels like it doesn't engage well with the river itself and I'm unsure if that's a flood-plain issue or a budget issue. Hurley Place Phase II and the redevelopment of the Pepsi Plant will be the catalysts that will make or break the success of the Promenade from 35th to 38th.


Also, where the hell is the Zeppelin pedestrian bridge at 35th? Did Kyle lose interest now that cities are dead and all the white folks are living in the mountains? Or is the city actually serious about relocating Ringsby Court?

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Not really joking when I ask this, but do you have a noticeable Texas accent? You might be confusing rude with hostility.

Yes, I do. Sorry, but being hostile to someone because of their accent IS rude. This supports what I meant by backwater: people here are rude to outsiders and anyone who isn’t exactly like them, which is exactly what so many liberals (let’s be honest with ourselves: the majority of people in Denver self-describe as liberals) accuse conservatives of doing.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Man… That post was a bear to write but I’m glad I finally got done with it.

I could only make a wild guess at the hours of effort needed... but glad you've found a system that will ease the way going forward.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Yes, I do. Sorry, but being hostile to someone because of their accent IS rude. This supports what I meant by backwater: people here are rude to outsiders and anyone who isn’t exactly like them, which is exactly what so many liberals (let’s be honest with ourselves: the majority of people in Denver self-describe as liberals) accuse conservatives of doing.

One of the hardest things in life is to learn to not take things personally. Yeah, it's really hard.

Think of a couple of one-liners as a comeback: "If it weren't for my accent nobody would notice me." - OR - "It's just my handicap that I've learned to live with." Speaking of politics.

Taking it to the top

Consider the plight of Pres Biden; the guy doesn't have the prettiest cover and in a day of social media on top of normal politics it becomes too easy and too much fun to judge the book by its cover.

For those actually paying attention I can't think of a better person to be Commander-in-Chief during Ukraine invasion times. Going back a year or so I can't think of a time when so much game-changing legislation has been passed. Whether Biden gets due credit is a different question and a few of the bills were passed on a bi-partisan effort. The more important point is the benefits that will accrue over the next decade and beyond are huge.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

One of the hardest things in life is to learn to not take things personally. Yeah, it's really hard.

Think of a couple of one-liners as a comeback: "If it weren't for my accent nobody would notice me." - OR - "It's just my handicap that I've learned to live with.”

A harder thing in life is learning how to treat people equally and not show bias against them for “a handicap.”

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Yes, I do. Sorry, but being hostile to someone because of their accent IS rude. This supports what I meant by backwater: people here are rude to outsiders and anyone who isn’t exactly like them, which is exactly what so many liberals (let’s be honest with ourselves: the majority of people in Denver self-describe as liberals) accuse conservatives of doing.

Not sure it is accents in general, so much as a very specific accent and/or region of the country. Our relationship with the south started out terrible and this is a city that happily named a central downtown street after Sherman and put it right after Lincoln and before Grant (during the time when Grant was still alive, and possibly still president no less). But we have a long-standing hatred for Texas that goes back to before we were a state and we have definitely despised Texas since the Battle of Glorieta Pass for sure... We named streets and avenues after a bunch of states, but skipped over Texas.

When I was a kid this continued because of the humiliation of Super Bowl XII and strong sports teams out of Texas - and the crazy thing is you could wear Raiders or 49'ers gear and just get shrugs (despite being assumed to be a gang member) but no one would be caught dead in a Cowboys jersey. And it was everywhere - I remember people booing the very mention of Texas at Juneteenth in 5 Points, and have seen people guide people way out of their way to a "Memphis" or "St. Louis" BBQ instead of a "Texas" BBQ joint.

And in my experience we've been pretty accepting of people from all kinds of backgrounds and experiences - it's not perfect, but nowhere is... but we're probably right behind New Mexico in the ranks of Texan intolerance.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

I remember people booing the very mention of Texas at Juneteenth in 5 Points.

I find it incredibly ironic that anyone would boo the mention of the very state that gave us that holiday, has celebrated it as an official state holiday for a long time, and has the nation’s largest Juneteenth celebrations.

[RyanD]

Looks like it’s getting a little spicy in here. Let’s all take a deep breath and enjoy some fall fresh air.

[UrbanT]

I only find drivers to be rude here for the most part (same can be said for most cities) I find it odd you think people are rude here. I’ve had five family members move here from Texas and can’t say the same. The fact that politics are brought up right away says a lot though. Anyways to Ryan’s point this is not Nextdoor and a development forum so back to that please?

[TakeFive]

Grand Re-opening - Best of Luck, Tom

All Photos by Andy Cross/The Denver Post







https://www.denverpost.com/2022/09/29/toms-diner-denver-toms-starlight-open/

Tom’s Starlight — the reincarnation of Tom’s Diner on Denver’s Colfax Avenue — welcomed patrons back to the building this week, with a fresh look, outdoor patio and menu.

The path to Tom’s Starlight’s opening was marked with years of twists and turns, including a nixed demolition plan, a spot on the National Register of Historic Places and a forced lull during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Was the grand re-opening nice?

On Wednesday, the Tom’s Starlight signage popped against the autumn sky above the Capitol Hill neighborhood as customers settled in for conversations and cocktails, seated on the orange bar stools inside and at patio tables.

Outside on Wednesday evening, several parties of diners were nestled under wooden pergolas as the sun set. Between them and the door leading inside, the patio is dotted with fountains, tiki garden statues, fire pits and greenery.

For Rick Olson, the vibe reminds him of Palm Springs, Calif... “I like it because it’s almost like a time capsule,” added Patrick Gray, who described the lounge as an “idealized, 1950s highway diner” with the added flair of that stylish, southern California city.

[TakeFive]

Sold to the man in the White Hat with a winning Bid of $41M

1055 Clermont Street


Photo courtesy of CBS News

GM Development, a Denver based developer was the purchaser.

GM Development is an Urban Infill Development Company

Over the past 10 years, GM Development has built an extensive portfolio of real estate projects in multiple states across the US. Our goal is to continue to evolve with the cities we build in and respond to their needs with developments that are sustainable and smart.

GM was the ultimate purchaser of The Chapel at Berkeley Lake Park for those that happen to recall that controversy.



They also built this Curtis Park 5-plex:


Images courtesy of GM Development

GM has also built a number of townhome projects. The VA Hospital campus looks to be their biggest project to date but they've had lots of practice.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

I find it incredibly ironic that anyone would boo the mention of the very state that gave us that holiday, has celebrated it as an official state holiday for a long time, and has the nation’s largest Juneteenth celebrations.

It could be that they could be booing the fact that force was necessary to free people in the first place? Not sure anyone gives the state credit for something that shouldn't have been necessary in the first place...

But I think my point was a bit muddy (as always) - these were my own personal observations and wild guesses as to why we're so anti-Texan. My wife was born in Dallas and whenever that comes up in conversation with a Coloradan or New Mexican the reaction is usually something along the lines of "Oh, I'm sorry..." or "That's too bad, I really liked you". It's always been friendly and I don't think I've ever actually encountered someone who was rude ONLY because of that, usually if they're actually jerks about where you're from or what you sound like, they're just jerks in general.

And in relation to Take 5's original point - I don't think "being rude to outsiders" is going to reduce prices. It will frustrate some people, but it definitely is not a solution to home prices because the few people that are turned off will be hugely outnumbered by the others that don't notice. Neither is destroying our industry or turning the city into a terrible place to live so people stop moving here. The solution is more housing so all those newcomers with their silly accents, interesting food, and terrible driving habits have someplace to live.

[BrIced_Tea]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Just for giggles I googled cheapest places to live

https://realestate.usnews.com/places/rankings/cheapest-places-to-live

1. Hickory, NC
2. Green Bay, WI
3. Huntsville, AL
4. Quad Cities, IA-IL (Davenport-Bettendorf, IA & Moline-Rock Island, IL)
5. Fort Wayne, IN
6. Pittsburgh, PA
7. Beaumont, TX
8. Fayetteville, AR
9. Peoria, IL
10. Youngstown, OH
11. Grand Rapids, MI
12. Des Moines, IA
13. South Bend, IN
14. Huntington, WV & Ashland, KY-OH
15. Greenville, SC

Maybe some of you 'young 🞵🞵🞵🞵' could study what these cities are doing right that Colorado/Denver could learn from and copy.

As someone native to Iowa I can speak to at least 2 of these places.

Quad Cities: Transportation Hub, sits at the intersection of Mississippi River, I-80, Railroad Depots. HQ of John Deere with high paying Manufacturing / Engineering jobs. Surrounded by farmland so room to expand with new single family housing. Not a trendy city or near any popular recreation sites.

Des Moines: High paying insurance and biotech jobs. Major Transportation / Logistics hub, sits at intersection of I-80 and I-35. Similar to the Quad Cities it's surrounded by endless farmland so room to expand. Not a trendy city / near any popular rec sites.

[DenverInfill]

The latest Bell Tower renderings. Go to the blog post for more.

https://denverinfill.com/2022/09/bell-tower-one-step-closer.html

[Agent Orange]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Greenville, Des Moines, Grand Rapids, and Pittsburgh are all quite nice places. The others? They are cheap because nobody wants to move there.

Also worth noting that Pittsburgh - the only major city on the list remotely comparable to Denver in size - has not grown in sixty years. Actually, its metro area is smaller in population now than it was in the 1960s. That does a lot for affordability. (Population shrinkage/stagnation is also part of why Vienna is so affordable for a European capital, same for Berlin until its more recent growth spurt).