YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by wabooba

As the capital of the USA, do you think seasonal or year-round? The traffic doesn't seem that large. I seem to recall (?) United with 5x/wk Airbus 320. Not a really big market, it seems.
what IS the largest eastern US market in #/$ from Chicago eastwards, (New York, Miami, etc)??? ... and what are the pax#s for IAD? How big a market is Washington DC for YVR, even potentially?
Thank you.

I'd think eventually it would be daily from May-October.

[casper]

Originally Posted by wabooba

As the capital of the USA, do you think seasonal or year-round? The traffic doesn't seem that large. I seem to recall (?) United with 5x/wk Airbus 320. Not a really big market, it seems.
what IS the largest eastern US market in #/$ from Chicago eastwards, (New York, Miami, etc)??? ... and what are the pax#s for IAD? How big a market is Washington DC for YVR, even potentially?
Thank you.

IAD is a major hub for United. There will be no shortage of onward connections to other United destinations both in the US and if the timing working overseas.

[zahav]

I think IAD is a good bet at this point either by AC or UA. UA would unlikely do anything more than the summer seasonal they used to do. But AC could maybe succeed with it as a year round destination.

I know iit's not much (essentially because it's replacing UA), but it's good to see AC step up with a mainline aircraft on this route. Service and quality of flight on AC's A220 would likey be much better than some of UA's dinosaur planes. I hope it sticks around once UA returns, but might still not be traffic justification for it, who knows. The fact that Air Canada won't be operating anything from YYC-IAH is mind boggline to me, this was supposed to be such a strong route. Despite WS's ever growing domincance at YYC, the IAH route seemed like a must-have for Air Canada to still be relevant, because it is arguably one of the strongest linked cities for Calgary in terms of business, maybe the most. And probably some decent leisure travel and connections. Handing it over to UA wouldn't have been that questionable since they are such tight partners. But I can't help but feel it was a major WS victory, they are seeing AC competition on so many routes evaporate, and they are loving it. As I've said before, YVR doesn't seem to be suffering from a battle between WS and AC to monopolize routes really (some minor ones, ie. WS reducing SNA a bit because of AC competition), but ultimately they have each held their own on the routes they share. And YVR hasn't gotten the massive route cuts other airports have seen (ie. the Encore decimation out east, the gutting of WS's European service from YHZ, or AC's downsizing at YYC). Those are all very palpable losses coming from both airlines at different airports, but YVR hasn't been as affected. But it has the massive China shutdown killing it's international numbers, so we are getting dealt a blow in other ways. Just not one of the two major Canadian carriers ditching us, thankfully

[Denscity]

Ya I just saw 3 or 4 International flight cuts for YUL Montreal which really — for them.
They will have even less passengers than Vancouver.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by zahav

I think IAD is a good bet at this point either by AC or UA.

As I've said before, YVR doesn't seem to be suffering from a battle between WS and AC to monopolize routes really (some minor ones, ie. WS reducing SNA a bit because of AC competition), but ultimately they have each held their own on the routes they share. And YVR hasn't gotten the massive route cuts other airports have seen (ie. the Encore decimation out east, the gutting of WS's European service from YHZ, or AC's downsizing at YYC). Those are all very palpable losses coming from both airlines at different airports, but YVR hasn't been as affected.

But it has the massive China shutdown killing it's international numbers, so we are getting dealt a blow in other ways. Just not one of the two major Canadian carriers ditching us, thankfully

I agree I see IAD is a very likely new route. Probably still seasonal like BOS but it’s a very large market for YVR so just a matter of time. The A220 is ideal for these types of routes.

And you are right YVR isn’t really suffering between AC and WS. WS still showing a very significant transborder and sun destination schedule from YVR this winter. They even have 6 weekly 789s on the YVR-PVR route.

AC transborder at YYC is reduced to scraps this winter. Of course they have a daily flight each to their #1 leisure destinations of LAS and PHX but just one daily each to LAX and SFO on CR9s is just —. I’m surprised they are still planning to operate EWR and only three weekly to OGG on 7M8s is minimal at best. Sun flights of course to CUN/PVR/SJD is going for the sure thing.

As for China - that’s just global so as for getting dealt a blow? That’s just for intl numbers really. Cannot do anything about that. Certainly no reflection on YVR whatsoever despite what some posters want to think.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I agree I see IAD is a very likely new route. Probably still seasonal like BOS but it’s a very large market for YVR so just a matter of time. The A220 is ideal for these types of routes.

And you are right YVR isn’t really suffering between AC and WS. WS still showing a very significant transborder and sun destination schedule from YVR this winter. They even have 6 weekly 789s on the YVR-PVR route.

AC transborder at YYC is reduced to scraps this winter. Of course they have a daily flight each to their #1 leisure destinations of LAS and PHX but just one daily each to LAX and SFO on CR9s is just —. I’m surprised they are still planning to operate EWR and only three weekly to OGG on 7M8s is minimal at best. Sun flights of course to CUN/PVR/SJD is going for the sure thing.

As for China - that’s just global so as for getting dealt a blow? That’s just for intl numbers really. Cannot do anything about that. Certainly no reflection on YVR whatsoever despite what some posters want to think.

Mid October, Japan will open up to tourists entering the country. We will see what that does to that market. I expect it will be slow build up. That said, Japan was never a very big market for Vancouver.

[Johnny Aussie]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but YVR has posted its July 2022 stats.
I’ve noticed they didn’t show the detailed monthly summary they normally do.
Their link just takes you to the annual summary.
Also the first time YVR had a 2 million + month since Jan 2020.

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/documents/facts-sheets/2022/07---july/july-passengers.pdf

Total pax 2,083,023
Domestic 1,135,814
Int’l 947,000 (Transborder 522,988 Other int’l 424,222)

Int’l getting close to the 1 million make again and as expected Europe still bigger than Asia Pacific

[ninjakafi_81]

I don't think this has been posted yet. Some AC updates posted on Aeroroutes a couple days ago.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220922-acns23inc

Vancouver – Beijing Capital Service remains cancelled in NS23, on/after 26MAR23
Vancouver – Delhi Service remains cancelled in NS23, on/after 26MAR23
* Vancouver – Dublin eff 02JUN23 787-8 replaces A330-300, 4 weekly
Vancouver – London Heathrow eff 01JUN23 Seasonal 2nd daily AC862/863 operated by 787-9, replacing -8 (Overall 2 daily 787-9, identical to selected periods in NS22)
Vancouver – Seoul Incheon eff 25MAR23 400-seater 777-300ER replaces 787-9, 1 daily
Vancouver – Seoul Incheon – Shanghai Pu Dong 2 weekly 400-seater 777-300ER continues to operate 2 weekly, replacing nonstop Vancouver – Shanghai
Vancouver – Tokyo Narita eff 25MAR23 400-seater 777-300ER replaces 787-9, 1 daily
Vancouver – Osaka Kansai eff 02JUN23 Service resumption, 4 weekly 787-8

[Johnny Aussie]

^ that’s some huge metal being thrown at ICN and NRT

I realise that’s a long way from finalising but a good sign for Japan and Korea at least along with the return of KIX.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Ya I just saw 3 or 4 International flight cuts for YUL Montreal which really — for them.
They will have even less passengers than Vancouver.

That's cute. Factually incorrect, but cute...

Wake me up when your monthly intl numbers pass 1 million, you know....like over at the big boy airports out east....

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I agree I see IAD is a very likely new route. Probably still seasonal like BOS but it’s a very large market for YVR so just a matter of time. The A220 is ideal for these types of routes.

And you are right YVR isn’t really suffering between AC and WS. WS still showing a very significant transborder and sun destination schedule from YVR this winter. They even have 6 weekly 789s on the YVR-PVR route.

AC transborder at YYC is reduced to scraps this winter. Of course they have a daily flight each to their #1 leisure destinations of LAS and PHX but just one daily each to LAX and SFO on CR9s is just —. I’m surprised they are still planning to operate EWR and only three weekly to OGG on 7M8s is minimal at best. Sun flights of course to CUN/PVR/SJD is going for the sure thing.

As for China - that’s just global so as for getting dealt a blow? That’s just for intl numbers really. Cannot do anything about that. Certainly no reflection on YVR whatsoever despite what some posters want to think.

I hope WS increases LAX flights a little bit- a couple days they only have one daily from YVR and twice daily from YYC. I hope they can get back to the 3x daily that they had pre-pandemic, although it looks like there'll be 10-12 transborder flights a day from YVR which isn't bad at all.

[Johnny Aussie]

Yup. Even flights to Mexico / Caribbean from YVR Westjet will be around 36 weekly of the total of approx 90 per week. So approx 40% of flights. YVR has Air Canada, Westjet, Flair, Aeromexico and Sunwing competing.
Whereas at YYC Westjet is over 70% (of course) - Westjet, Air Canada and Sunwing competing
Westjet on YVR-LAX is mainly 13 weekly for the winter this increases to 14 weekly by mid Feb.
YVR-LAX also has United, American and Flair on the route.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

That's cute. Factually incorrect, but cute...

Wake me up when your monthly intl numbers pass 1 million, you know....like over at the big boy airports out east....

Someone else posted it and saw it with my own eyes.
YVR is no stranger to 1 million international passengers per month and is close again despite big China flight losses.

[nname]

NH will increase YVR-NRT to daily starting November, but HND still suspended. Took them a while to finalize the schedule to YVR though, it is pretty much the last destination to be finalized for W22.

Looks like non-Chinese Asian carriers are mostly fully restored service to YVR, with PR in early summer, KE in Aug, BR in Sept, JL in Oct, NH in Nov, and CI next Jan. CX and carriers from Mainland China will probably take a while longer.

Speaking of CX, looks like the schedule is now being updated on a monthly basis. The base schedule to YVR is 4x weekly, with seasonal increase Dec to Mar to 5x weekly. A few week ago, schedule was updated to run 6x weekly for the month of October only.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by nname

NH will increase YVR-NRT to daily starting November, but HND still suspended. Took them a while to finalize the schedule to YVR though, it is pretty much the last destination to be finalized for W22.

Hopefully fares will drop a bit now.

Ron.

[Langdon0630]

Per Aeroroutes, Lufthansa is going to downgrade FRA - YVR to Eurowings Discover in NW22.

Frankfurt – Vancouver eff 07NOV22 Eurowings Discover A330-300 operates 6 weekly, replacing Lufthansa A340-300 (1 daily from 09DEC22. Schedule below effective 07NOV22 – 11MAR23, selected dates operated by A330-200)
4Y070/AC7394 FRA1035 – 1215YVR 333 x4
4Y071/AC7395 YVR1350 – 0905+1FRA 333 x4

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220928-lh4ynw22ca

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Langdon0630

Per Aeroroutes, Lufthansa is going to downgrade FRA - YVR to Eurowings Discover in NW22.

I'm surprised it's been downgraded to 6x weekly in november. I'm pretty sure the route can support daily. Was mainline LH too premium? Well YVR-Europe is pretty small in the wintertime anyways.

[Johnny Aussie]

^ it’s not small it’s just VERY seasonal.

Still has 6 carriers operating during winter but on a much reduced schedule compared to Summer. Always been this way.

LH was as low as 5 weekly during part of winter.

[hehehe]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

^ it’s not small it’s just VERY seasonal.

Still has 6 carriers operating during winter but on a much reduced schedule compared to Summer. Always been this way.

LH was as low as 5 weekly during part of winter.

Yes, which is why I said the YVR-Europe market is small in the winter. Because it's small in the winter (not in the summer). What I meant was this change isn't a big deal since the TATL market from YVR is small during the winter anyways.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Langdon0630

Per Aeroroutes, Lufthansa is going to downgrade FRA - YVR to Eurowings Discover in NW22.

This —. IIRC eurowings although part of the LH group isn't star alliance and not eligible for network perks. and i thought south asia transfer traffic kept YVR - europe traffic going in the wintertime.

YYZ is also being downgraded to eurowings, but i think they have a robust AC connection to FRA