Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Takingoff

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You do your thing, I'll do mine. If another carrier wants to take a chance on a perceived underserved market, they will.

My advocacy starts with not giving AC any of my dollars for european travel. Contributing to their load factors and yields by funneling me through YYZ or YUL does nothing but reinforce the existing hub model.

If they don't get my money, perhaps they'll up their service level. I'll spend my money on another airline till then.

The problem with airlines taking a chance on routes comes down to numbers unfortunately, that's the point. They need to see a good number of people booking a YOW-YUL-CDG ticket instead of YUL-CDG for any hopes of YOW getting direct CDG service. The people who book YUL-CDG are just solidifying their decisions to increase service in YUL (like they need it) instead of YOW.

I do agree with you about not giving AC my money. If a major international airline begins in YOW in the future like KLM, AF, BA, etc. It's goodbye AC for me.

[Takingoff]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Your advocacy of what, exactly?

At this point, it's self advocacy...

BTW, why is it so difficult to understand that others could have an equally valid opinion to your own? This is a forum meant to stimulate the exchange of ideas, not to provide the highest soapbox.

I appreciate your opinion but don't necessarily agree with it.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by Takingoff

At this point, it's self advocacy...

At least were calling it what it actually is now. Thanks for the chat.

[Takingoff]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

At least were calling it what it actually is now. Thanks for the chat.

Isn't every single passenger self advocating? Are you any different?

Thanks for the chat. You can log off now.

[YOWflier]

Well I actually fill seats on flights in the city where I want better air service. Evidently I am different.

[Takingoff]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Well I actually fill seats on flights in the city where I want better air service. Evidently I am different.

I think by starving AC of any of my money, my self advocacy will be more effective.

Let's compare the two:
Option one: continue to support crappy service in the hope that you get rewarded with better service.

Option two: Let your money do the talking and shop elsewhere. If an airline wants my business, they'll need to earn it.

I think that the general public will choose option 2.

Again, feel free to accept opinions other than your own.

[YOWflier]

What specific improvements are you seeking in order to repatriate your dollars to this city?

[Takingoff]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

What specific improvements are you seeking in order to repatriate your dollars to this city?

This is all about how to best motivate an airline to provide direct european service to YOW. You are free to spend your time and money subsidizing AC, but I prefer to withhold my money to get their attention.

You are entitled to your opinion, but don't assume that it is the only perspective.

Of course if you feel you must, you are welcome to reply...

[YOWflier]

So all you want is any airline to offer any nonstop service to/from any European gateway to/from YOW? Or are there more conditions?

[Takingoff]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

So all you want is any airline to offer any nonstop service to/from any European gateway to/from YOW? Or are there more conditions?

Seems like a reasonable ask. Propping up AC doesn't get you any closer to getting an airline to provide this service?

You won't convince many people that accepting inferior service will motivate an airline to provide superior service. Spend your money how you feel.

"Last word"...

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Takingoff

I think by starving AC of any of my money, my self advocacy will be more effective.

Let's compare the two:
Option one: continue to support crappy service in the hope that you get rewarded with better service.

Option two: Let your money do the talking and shop elsewhere. If an airline wants my business, they'll need to earn it.

I think that the general public will choose option 2.

Again, feel free to accept opinions other than your own.

As much as I hate AC and as much as I do not want to support them, not using any air service on any airline will cause that airline to pull out service. It doesn't teach them a lesson, it just tells them people are not willing to use it and they will retract it and use their aircraft somewhere else.

There's no need for arguing guys. It is a fact that for increasing air service, you need to show airlines how much local traffic is going through their hubs by connecting. It's also a reality that people will continue to drive to other airports, there's no stopping it and no one here is telling anyone what to do. Except the ones that complain about YOW's options while continuing to start at other airports. Those people I just can't deal with.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

Like I said, this is the individual traveller's business. I personally am not triggered by it. What I am triggered by are those who make starting at another airport a habit and then complain about YOW's options. Nope. I will not accept it.

It's true that we may just not have the demand to certain destinations and that's the reality. Even massive hubs around the world don't have direct to every single destination. But the unknown viable destinations YOW can support will remain unknown as long as travellers continue to leak to other airports, and that too is another unfortunate reality. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way a fan of the hub and spoke model where these big player airlines use YOW as a feeder. I know it's just business and it's not personal but it does suggest that we are not important enough and that our only use is to fill flights in airports that they do consider important, which is why if Porter does make YOW a real hub with codeshare with major international airlines, all my loyalty will go to them even if I have to pay a premium.

Can't you complain about a service that doesn't serve your needs? Does the same rationale apply to transit? Many routes simply don't make sense. Do I need to take three busses so Octranspo understands my destination is popular?

Surely it's not only load factors. Granted it's different math for low cost carriers but the bold companies like Ryan Air launch routes that have almost no current passengers.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Can't you complain about a service that doesn't serve your needs? Does the same rationale apply to transit? Many routes simply don't make sense. Do I need to take three busses so Octranspo understands my destination is popular?

Surely it's not only load factors. Granted it's different math for low cost carriers but the bold companies like Ryan Air launch routes that have almost no current passengers.

It's more than that and it's different when talking about an airline vs public transport. If a bus breaks down, I can call a taxi or an Uber. Taking 3 different busses to get from one end of Ottawa to the other doesn't take more than roughly 2 hours.

A direct to SFO takes about 5 hours. However, 3 plane transfers can take 12+ hours and the possibility of being stranded overnight if one gets cancelled. Longer range destination are an even bigger nightmare. So they are not exactly the same. So yes, I'm more likely to complain about air service that doesn't serve my needs over public transit that doesn't serve my needs. This scenario is hypothetical to match the same number of transfers. I know that it only takes one transfer to get to SFO.

In both scenarios, if no one takes the route, connecting or not, it will not be served.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by Takingoff

Seems like a reasonable ask. Propping up AC doesn't get you any closer to getting an airline to provide this service?

You won't convince many people that accepting inferior service will motivate an airline to provide superior service. Spend your money how you feel.

"Last word"...

But what if THAT airline IS AC? Will you fly it? Or are there other conditions we don’t know about?

[Takingoff]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

But what if THAT airline IS AC? Will you fly it? Or are there other conditions we don’t know about?

Airline choice is secondary to routing, connections and comfort. Whether it's AC or any other airline is Irrelevant.

Do you have any conditions that we don't know about?

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by Takingoff

Airline choice is secondary to routing, connections and comfort. Whether it's AC or any other airline is Irrelevant.

Do you have any conditions that we don't know about?

Ok so:

Routing: YOW-LHR(-XYZ)
Connections: 2-3 hours each way, if applicable
Comfort: state of the art aircraft just off the assembly line, conventional or above conventional seat pitch and amenities, lie-flat biz if that’s your thing.

Can we count on your support?

[Takingoff]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Ok so:

Routing: YOW-LHR(-XYZ)
Connections: 2-3 hours each way
Comfort: state of the art aircraft just off the assembly line, conventional or above conventional seat pitch and amenities, lie-flat biz if that’s your thing.

Can we count on your support?

Who is 'we' you are referring to? Are you speaking for a group or organization?

[YOWflier]

We = regular Joes like me who care about this stuff.

So, you in?

[Takingoff]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

We = people like-minded to me. I’m just a regular Joe.

So, you in?

Maybe we can carpool to YUL?

[YOWflier]

Why? You’ll have everything you need and want here.