Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And it's especially oppressive to have to learn French when one has wilfully moved to Québec from another part of Canada or another country!

It's the well-established principle: "When in Rome, do like you would back home, and if the Romans don't like it, whine that they're racist".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

The two 1-series provincial highways that intersect in (downtown) Sherbrooke are King Street (Route 112) (named after William IV) and Queen Victoria Blvd (Route 143)

That's not particularly rare or noteworthy. Quebec grew a lot between 1760 and the Quiet Revolution; that growth often has a British flavor, for obvious reasons.

I had dinner at a restaurant at the corner of Rue Laval and Rue Wellington last night. Yes, it's in the oldest part of town. We then went for a walk along Rue Jacques-Cartier.

But when was the last time something new was named for something or someone British in Québec? Maybe the 1950s or the 1960s? Even earlier?

The naming of the Queen Elizabeth Hotel (Le Reine Elizabeth in French) in Montréal was very controversial already in the 1960s.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

No trip to Canada is complete without a visit to Salaberry-de-Valleyfield!

Just in case you missed it, that city's only quality is the correct rhyme!

Though, having been in the area a few times for business, there's a decent Number Of Things™ to do over there.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I was in Valleyfield a few years ago to visit the graves of my paternal great-grandparents in the Protestant cemetery there. I was quite surprised at how run down the place seemed.

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's surprisingly rust belt-y, for Quebec at least.

Downtown Sorel would give it a run for its money for rust-belt-iness.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

I still think the argument that JT "should" speak French better and gets fewer points than a 0% Francophone speaking minimal French is a bit weird.

You think? I find it reasonable. JT's French is totally disappointing, so the conclusion is that the guy is semi-retarded; conversely, if someone just moved here and already speaks minimal French after, say, a few weeks, I'll be impressed (and correctly conclude that the person is decently smart).

I recall one guy who was a PhD student in theoretical physics who was really dumber than you'd expect at that level (it's possible to reach decent heights in this field even if you're not that smart; the giveaway that you're dumb is that it'll take you much longer to reach the same heights).

Now, if you just started studying the same field as him, and after a few weeks had surprisingly impressive knowledge, I'd pick you over him as my partner, anytime.

Ability to learn (a good proxy for intelligence) is something I value much more than "absolute skill level at a given time, regardless of the person's resume".

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lio45

JT's French is totally disappointing, so the conclusion is that the guy is semi-retarded

Yikes.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The broader point rosseau is making is valid, though. The far right hasn't gotten much power or momentum and what little it does get is pretty aggressively challenged by the mainstream. The far left by contrast has seeped into many of our institutions and very few in the mainstream have challenged it. For this reason I, as a centrist, am more afraid of the far left than I am of the far right.

At least in Canada this is true.

In other countries... maybe not. At least not in the only other country most Canadians regularly pay attention to.

[janbe74]

JT French to not even Quebec French. He speaks French closer to French spoken in France.

His father Pierre Trudeau, preferred speaking French from France, then Quebec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Just in case you missed it, that city's only quality is the correct rhyme!

Nous irons jusqu'à Hull en carriole

Nous irons à Rimouski à pas de ski

Nous irons à Sherbrooke... comme des bachi-bouzouks!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by janbe74

JT French to not even Quebec French. He speaks French closer to French spoken in France.

His father Pierre Trudeau, preferred speaking French from France, then Quebec.

There is no way JT's French is closer to the French of France.

It sounds like mid-upper grade... Franco-Ontarien, really.

No disrespect to Franco-Ontariens. Some are awesome in French. Just going by the averages.

Any random Québécois francophone politician speaks better French, with more ease, than JT.

I think his French is fine personally, but since it's the topic I am giving my assessment.

[janbe74]

He was raised by his father. His father doesn't like the French spoken in Quebec. At home he spoke French from France to his kids. It is not Quebec French.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Yikes.

How can anyone NOT set the minimum bar for someone with his upbringing to be, at his age, perfectly fluent in both languages?

For example, I don't know much about the current King of Belgium, but I am assuming that if he's at least of average intelligence / not too inbred, then he can speak both French and Dutch to near perfection. That's a pretty basic job skill for the position: there's few things I would find more important in the daily schedule of young future Belgian royalty than making sure they're fluent in both languages.

Similarly, any Trudeau Dynasty heir that can't speak both languages to perfection is a pretty big fail.

[niwell]

There’s seemingly nothing more than many Anglo Canadians like to claim than they know “Parisian French”. Always found it kinda funny. No skin in this game as my French is godawful and maintaining any semblance of conversation would be a huge win.

[janbe74]

I have scene numerous interviews where Trudeau gives interviews in French in France.

[janbe74]

There are many people in France who have trouble understanding the French from Quebec.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by niwell

There’s seemingly nothing more than many Anglo Canadians like to claim than they know “Parisian French”.

It is so weird. If I were King of Belgium, I'd want to speak Walloon French and Flemish Dutch with all of their local peculiarities, not optimal Île-de-France dialect and whatever the proper Amsterdam Dialect is.

As a Canadian PM, I'd (proudly) speak Québécois and Anglo-Canadian. Not the Queen's, King's English.

(Electoral promise: if ever elected Federal PM, I formally promise to start adding that "u" to words like color and honor, and swap the -er ending for -re.)

[janbe74]

Many Quebecers said Pierre Trudeau's French was bad. That it didn't sound from Quebec. .

Pierre Trudeau spoke 10 different languages.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by janbe74

I have scene numerous interviews where Trudeau gives interviews in French in France.

Lots of people from Quebec (or even francophones from other parts of Canada) get interviewed in French in France.

That doesn't mean they speak Euro-French. In any event, it's effectively the same language, in the same way that British English and the (North) American English that Canadians speak is the same language.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by janbe74

Many Quebecers said Pierre Trudeau's French was bad. That it didn't sound from Quebec. .

Pierre Trudeau spoke 10 different languages.

They never said it was bad, just that it sounded pompous and as if he was elevating himself over the common people.

Not sure he spoke 10 languages. Never heard that he was a polyglot. And I read a bunch of stuff about him, including biographies.

[Acajack]

For the handful of people here that can understand French (you know, the real French as spoken on either side of the Atlantic)... even Justin Trudeau himself admits he is self-conscious about his French.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqBo7-dtLJA