Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW) 1.0

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

Personally, I don’t factor another airport into my travel planning. It just doesn’t enter the picture. I look for the best itinerary/price I can get from here and book it. Things can’t improve unless one walks the talk.

So even if the cheapest ticket to Florida from YOW was over $100,000 you would just pay it and not look at another airport? Or would you just cancel the trip without looking at other airports?

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by roger1818

So even if the cheapest ticket to Florida from YOW was over $100,000 you would just pay it and not look at another airport? Or would you just cancel the trip without looking at other airports?

I don't get what people go on about. Yes, some people will never change airports. The average business traveller won't.
But we know, with data the average person will look around.
People in the GTA drove to Buffalo in droves, and people in London Ontario drive to Detroit. People in the Vancouver area drive to Seattle. All of this declined in the late 2010's but was still a big thing for a while.

People in Edmonton drive to Calgary.
And people in Ottawa will drive to Montreal.

This isn't new, rare or unique. People find ways to save money, flying is no different.
The market knows it happens, there is a reason Air Canada never put any effort into Hamilton or Waterloo. They can easily have enough traffic for Montreal or Ottawa but they knew people would just drive to Toronto.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by roger1818

So even if the cheapest ticket to Florida from YOW was over $100,000 you would just pay it and not look at another airport? Or would you just cancel the trip without looking at other airports?

I tend to deal in realistic scenarios. That isn't one, right?

But no, I wouldn’t pay it obviously. I would either not go at all, or go at another time when the ticket is about $99500 less.

Florida is a funny example because I go there extensively. Not once have I ever searched for anything but YOW-Florida. Would rather connect by air than connect by driving. It’s how I’m wired.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

I can’t recall exact timing (early 2000s-ish) but it was a while ago for sure.

Edit: some searching found AC YOW-LAS started September 2007. Can’t find exact dates on WS but it was roughly in 2015.

Flair is very recent. It was loaded as recently as past winter but never once got off the ground, a sign of weak bookings.

Flair I'd hardly count given they tried at the peak of the pandemic.

AC lasted I believe two seasons on the twice weekly 319.

WS started on 09DEC10 (PR: https://westjet.mediaroom.com/news-releases?item=473) and yeah went until I believe the 2014-15 season. It was the same time they pulled over half their international YOW flying. Not only was LAS cut, but FLL, TPA, CUN and PUJ too and MCO frequencies were cut in half. Since then it's only been MCO, RSW and MBJ. No doubt it was all about consolidating stuff at YYZ. Heck YUL lost everything on WS that was international.

I don't think it's any coincidence that transborder and international traffic had drops from 2015 to 2016 that roughly correspond to what WS would have carried on those sun routes: https://yow.ca/en/corporate/airport-authority/passenger-volume#2016

Today's departure count: 67

Today's cancellation count (so far): 0

[OTSkyline]

I'm the same, I've looked in the past at YUL-🞵🞵🞵 or YYZ-🞵🞵🞵 and it was always very comparable if not more expensive than flying out of YOW - maybe just luck based on times or destinations I've gone to, but that has been my personal experience.

But, like the majority of people now, most of my flights to the US or International now include a transfer (usually at YYZ). Would I prefer direct options? Absolutely. And I really hope they come, however, I'm still a budget-conscious shopper at the end of the day and I think the most I would pay is maybe 10-15% more for a direct option (vs. with 1-stop).

At the end of the day, I'm trying to stretch my vacation dollars and both a direct & 1-stop option, leaving from YOW, are seriously considered.

[AuxTown]

I will ALWAYS pay a premium for direct flights both due to time savings and risk of delays/baggage issues etc. How much premium I'm willing to pay is the question. I think 15-20% of the ticket value is more than reasonable. I paid a big premium to fly direct to Doha for the WC in November (YUL-DOH on QA) and it is paying dividends. Every day I hear about other fans whose connections and flights on AC, BA, Egyptair, Turkish are all getting cancelled and/or changed. Anyway, I think there a lot of traveller's willing to pay the premium if the flights were offered on a consistent basis (like more than once weekly).

[Richard Eade]

The problem is that the premium that you pay for a direct flight does not guarantee that the direct flight will happen.

Years ago, a group of seven of us were flying to Las Vegas. At the time, AC had a direct flight from YOW, so we booked it. It was going to cost more than flying from YUL, but the direct option made it worth the premium.

Well, a week before the flight, AC notified us that they had canceled the direct flight and rebooked us with a connection through YUL. There was no change in price.

We canceled that flight and booked tickets for the direct flight from YUL. For some reason, the flight from YUL was even cheaper than it had been. Even with the parking charge for a week, it was much cheaper for our group of 7 to fly direct from YUL. And, frankly, the drive time was shorter than the combined flight and layover time that AC had us booked for.

[wingman]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I will ALWAYS pay a premium for direct flights both due to time savings and risk of delays/baggage issues etc. How much premium I'm willing to pay is the question. I think 15-20% of the ticket value is more than reasonable. I paid a big premium to fly direct to Doha for the WC in November (YUL-DOH on QA) and it is paying dividends. Every day I hear about other fans whose connections and flights on AC, BA, Egyptair, Turkish are all getting cancelled and/or changed. Anyway, I think there a lot of traveller's willing to pay the premium if the flights were offered on a consistent basis (like more than once weekly).

I think you just hit on something that is undervalued. The safety net. As you say, a once weekly is worrysome, hell once daily is worrysome, as, if there is a cancellation what happens? Maybe they re-route you through a connector... maybe they tell you you have to take the next run of your planned flight?

When I fly, not as much as most of you, and as much as I hate YYZ (T1), a part of my planning is contingency. If a flight gets cancelled, what options does the airline have for me? YYZ often offers the best contingencies, especially if flying within Canada. If it is one flight a day, or less, that scares me.

I like direct, but I love customs in YOW. If I had to connect in the US, I'd prob take that over YYZ if the fallback options are similar.

Mind you, my most recent Canada Customs experience was at YVR and it was very very quick and efficient. But man, that airport has such long walks to get from international to domenstic gates.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That isn't always true. Since Ontario and Quebec have different school March breaks, it is often hundreds of dollars cheaper per person to fly out of YUL than it is out of YOW. Multiply that by a family of 4 and that can work out to thousands of dollars in savings.

This is absolutely true. 5 of us flew to a sun destination last March Break from YUL and we will do it again (and we live <10KM from YOW). The savings is at least $1000 for a family of four. For teachers, there is no flexibility on dates so there can only be flexibility on something else (like airports). There were many other families on the same flight who had also driven down from Ottawa.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Flair I'd hardly count given they tried at the peak of the pandemic.

Exactly what I was thinking. I hardly think that Flair's attempt at YOW-LAS counts considering it was during peak COVID season with RAT still needed to enter the US.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

I tend to deal in realistic scenarios. That isn't one, right?

But no, I wouldn’t pay it obviously. I would either not go at all, or go at another time when the ticket is about $99500 less.

Florida is a funny example because I go there extensively. Not once have I ever searched for anything but YOW-Florida. Would rather connect by air than connect by driving. It’s how I’m wired.

It was obviously a significant hyperbole with the intent to indicate that everyone would have a price. More realistically, a ticket price of $1500 to Florida (I picked it intentionally as I remember you do travel there frequently) wouldn't be impossible during peak travel times, which is significantly higher than normal. Now maybe you have more flexibility than me. I'm usually working around school holidays and vacation dates that have to be approved.

For me, I would pay a significant premium for a direct flight (how much is really situational). Part of that is drama from missed connections and luggage not making the connection. It also depends on the airline. I know WS is amazing at supporting those with missed connections. AC, not so much, though they usually have more options to get you to your destination.

I am more tolerant with direct flights with stops, as while they will take longer than an non-stop flight, the risk of making the connection is almost completely eliminated (I am using Swoop's flight to YXX via YEG in October).

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by roger1818

It was obviously a significant hyperbole with the intent to indicate that everyone would have a price. More realistically, a ticket price of $1500 to Florida (I picked it intentionally as I remember you do travel there frequently) wouldn't be impossible during peak travel times, which is significantly higher than normal. Now maybe you have more flexibility than me. I'm usually working around school holidays and vacation dates that have to be approved.

For me, I would pay a significant premium for a direct flight (how much is really situational). Part of that is drama from missed connections and luggage not making the connection. It also depends on the airline. I know WS is amazing at supporting those with missed connections. AC, not so much, though they usually have more options to get you to your destination.

I am more tolerant with direct flights with stops, as while they will take longer than an non-stop flight, the risk of making the connection is almost completely eliminated (I am using Swoop's flight to YXX via YEG in October).

I've always valued those one stop but no plane change routes. Porter serves YOW to St. John's, Thunder Bay, and Windsor with no plane change. I'm so scared of delays and missed connections that I too would pay premium to fly direct or one stop no plane change as I said before. For direct options from YOW, seems like my limit would be higher than everyone else at 50% for more expensive flights ($1000+), 75% for flights between $300-1000 and 100% for cheaper flights below that, generally speaking, other factors may change my mind as well as how high up in the $300-1000 range is the price actually. I will never use anything else than YOW though. If the price difference is so high from YOW compared to YUL, I will just go another time in those cases or pick a different vacation spot if it is for vacation. If I'm going somewhere for something urgent/important, money doesn't become a limiting factor for me and I will fly out of YOW at whatever cost.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

I tend to deal in realistic scenarios. That isn't one, right?

But no, I wouldn’t pay it obviously. I would either not go at all, or go at another time when the ticket is about $99500 less.

Florida is a funny example because I go there extensively. Not once have I ever searched for anything but YOW-Florida. Would rather connect by air than connect by driving. It’s how I’m wired.

Agreed let's talk realistically. I've flown from Montreal and even Toronto several times in this pandemic. Generally not alone so the price differences magnify but were substantial.

Last Christmas it was $800 from Toronto rather than $2000 from Ottawa and 20 hours vs 12.

Spring was more borderline.

Direct from Montreal for $700 vs $1000 from Ottawa with a long stopover though it also got me back too late for work so would have had to miss another day.

Looking at Paris this month and direct from Montreal is $700 or $1200 and 12 hours from Ottawa. With all the delays etc at this point I'd rather drive and control my departure too many connections getting cancelled.

[YOWflier]

The pandemic has been catastrophic for YOW and I’ve heard of a lot of abnormal pricing stories during this period. i.e. many deviations from the old “rule” about connecting flights being “free”; this would be almost unheard of before.

Will this be the new normal? Personally, I wouldn’t be making any sweeping conclusions based on the pandemic situation.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

The pandemic has been catastrophic for YOW and I’ve heard of a lot of abnormal pricing stories during this period. i.e. many deviations from the old “rule” about connecting flights being “free”; this would be almost unheard of before.

Will this be the new normal? Personally, I wouldn’t be making any sweeping conclusions based on the pandemic situation.

Yes the pandemic has changed travel patterns/pricing and it is uncertain what the new normal will be long term. Regarding March Break, my comparisons were pre-pandemic.

[bcard519]

Don’t know if it’s pickup up or dropping off :

National Cargo #860 (B744) has just filed a flight plan. It is scheduled to depart from Orlando Intl (MCO) at 11:45 EDT Friday (09 Sep) heading for Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier Int'l (YOW) for an estimated arrival at 14:26 EDT Friday (09 Sep).

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by bcard519

Don’t know if it’s pickup up or dropping off :

National Cargo #860 (B744) has just filed a flight plan. It is scheduled to depart from Orlando Intl (MCO) at 11:45 EDT Friday (09 Sep) heading for Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier Int'l (YOW) for an estimated arrival at 14:26 EDT Friday (09 Sep).

Sweet! Wonder if it's for a Canadian Bank Note shipment?

FlyGTA now offer private jet service between YTZ and YOW multiple times per week:

https://flygta.com/ - just under $6,500 one-way!

I'm guessing they must try and sell one or two surplus seats to the public for a contract they must have with someone.

Today's departure count: 65

Today's cancellation count: 1

[RomanR27]

Trying to think of the last time a 747 was in Ottawa. I remember just before the pandemic there was a Cathay Pacific B747-8 freighter that diverted here because of a winter storm in YYZ. I assume there haven't been any since then. Prior to that, it had been a while since we had an Atlas Air or Kalitta flight.

[Stacmon]

Originally Posted by FlyYOW

The pandemic has been catastrophic for YOW and I’ve heard of a lot of abnormal pricing stories during this period. i.e. many deviations from the old “rule” about connecting flights being “free”; this would be almost unheard of before.

Will this be the new normal? Personally, I wouldn’t be making any sweeping conclusions based on the pandemic situation.

What is funny/interesting/ironic is that we can see seemingly opposite situations in other circumstances. I think I posted a while back that during the New Year period in a few months, we found tickets for maybe $550 for three of us, non stop to Calgary *return* with Flair. That compared to about $2500 for Air Canada and Westjet for similar dates.

So while on the one hand connections and flights to further out like Europe have become more expensive from the anecdotes shares here, the emergence of some of these low cost carriers has really seemed to create a good alternative/pressure to lowe prices for YOW and other airports that aren't traditionally as well served as those in Toronto or Montreal.

I hope Flair doesn't leave the market or shut down at some point all together because even before his huge price differential was enough to get us to switch, it seemed to help make AC and Westjet more competitive!

[MountainView]

National Airlines B744 landing on runway 25 around 14:45 today:



National Airlines B744 parked on the secondary apron in between the de-icing pads and Hangar 11 (Canada Reception Centre):