Building LeBreton Flats - Master Planning

[LRTeverywhere]

Originally Posted by originalmuffins

Did they ever mention what they're going to do with the lands to the right of the War museum? I know the Holocaust Memorial is there, but there's a huge parcel of land with nothing named and it seems like nothing is really planned for it.

At the site next to the intersection of Booth and the Trans Canada pathway there will be a monument to Canada's Mission in Afghanistan.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remem...istan-monument

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Gotta leave that open for future politically motivated "nationally significant" monuments that will litter our city for years to come. If Pollievre gets in, expect a monument to the brave and patriotic Freedom Truckers who did nothing wrong. If the Liberals get in again, expect a monument to the outstanding ethical practices of SNC Lavalin.

It's where a new gallery to house the national war art collection should be locaterd.

[Kitchissippi]

The axis of the War Museum’s fin points at the Peace Tower so nothing will likely be built along that line. To the south of that would probably end up being a low building respectful or complemental to the museum and the Holocaust memorial. A war art/photography/journalism gallery as already mentioned, or a building to house a Canadian Genealogy Centre would be appropriate.

[J.OT13]

I wish they would build a couple 2 to 3 storey buildings with active street level to draw people across the river or any other federal use with that same street level frontage, but alas, this will be a dumping ground for a hundred monuments, resulting in each losing significance in a clutter of various sized stone blocks.

[Kitchissippi]

Yeah, such a missed opportunity. In my opinion, the first mistake was putting the War Museum here. This is the narrowest crossing of the Ottawa River, if there was an opportunity to restart, I would have loved to see Eddy-Booth as one continuous walkable interprovincial Main Street with the view of the falls as a centrepiece.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I wish they would build a couple 2 to 3 storey buildings with active street level to draw people across the river or any other federal use with that same street level frontage, but alas, this will be a dumping ground for a hundred monuments, resulting in each losing significance in a clutter of various sized stone blocks.

Alas, it no longer possible to build 2 to 3 storey lined main streets. We can build single storey big box malls with hectares of parking, single family homes, town houses or 30+ storey towers. We have created a weird real estate market.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I wish they would build a couple 2 to 3 storey buildings with active street level to draw people across the river or any other federal use with that same street level frontage, but alas, this will be a dumping ground for a hundred monuments, resulting in each losing significance in a clutter of various sized stone blocks.

That's what I was hoping for. There's going to be a lot of open space... 2 monuments, they should at least look at placing something like the Rec Room there. It would be a good location.

[OTSkyline]

Obviously the current Lebreton plans are better than status-quo but when you look at the plan as a whole it still has a lot of empty fields and holes. If you were to calculate the actual density of the proposed new developments as proportion of total land space, it would probably still be fairly low.

No height here, no density here, nothing in front of the war museum, nothing too close to a monument (that would be impolite), etc... you end up with a million reasons to scale back and settle with something very a-la Ottawa.

[alamgirkhan]

Do we have a separate thread for the Flats District?
https://www.collierscanada.com/en-ca...ada/can2010254

[postingaboutottawa]

That's an older version of the plan. The up to date one appended to the rfo for the flats district has pindigen park being redeveloped as part of the second phase of the flats district.

I think its nice there's a large unbroken greenspace from the garden of province and territories along the river all the way to bayview but i understand i might be on the minority on that issue

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

Obviously the current Lebreton plans are better than status-quo but when you look at the plan as a whole it still has a lot of empty fields and holes. If you were to calculate the actual density of the proposed new developments as proportion of total land space, it would probably still be fairly low.

No height here, no density here, nothing in front of the war museum, nothing too close to a monument (that would be impolite), etc... you end up with a million reasons to scale back and settle with something very a-la Ottawa.

Agreed. Not only that but by leaving the tracks mostly untouched with only a few options to cross over them, they've left the land totally carved up. The empty fields won't be as easily reachable by either residents or people visiting the neighbourhood. Maybe there's still an opportunity to fix this somewhat by selling air rights over the tracks but I don't see that happening.

This could have been an amazing opportunity to do something special. Instead we get... whatever the hell this is.

[SL123]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Maybe there's still an opportunity to fix this somewhat by selling air rights over the tracks but I don't see that happening.

The NCC did offer the air rights for the parcel at 665 Albert Street next to the library but the developer decided not to use that

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Agreed. Not only that but by leaving the tracks mostly untouched with only a few options to cross over them, they've left the land totally carved up. The empty fields won't be as easily reachable by either residents or people visiting the neighbourhood. Maybe there's still an opportunity to fix this somewhat by selling air rights over the tracks but I don't see that happening.

This could have been an amazing opportunity to do something special. Instead we get... whatever the hell this is.

Covering the tracks was a big reason for RVL's win originally, so surprised and disappointed that was not included in the new plan.

Haven't watched this video yet, but could be on topic.

• Video Link

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Yeah, such a missed opportunity. In my opinion, the first mistake was putting the War Museum here. This is the narrowest crossing of the Ottawa River, if there was an opportunity to restart, I would have loved to see Eddy-Booth as one continuous walkable interprovincial Main Street with the view of the falls as a centrepiece.

I'm conflicted about the Ward Museum. It's beautifully designed, iconic building, but I agree its location limits the possibilities to connect LeBreton with Zibi. Furthermore, it's cut-off from the river, which is disappointing. Shipping and receiving should have been off Vimy Place with the parking entrance/exit, and not on the river side.

LeBreton Flats Park is also a limiting factor. Outside of Bluesfest and a few other events, it's just a big empty grass field, and if we want to continue hosting these events, I don't see what we can do to improve it. Might have been better to build the museum and park at Bayview, though the current location is probably limited in height due to the viewplanes anyway.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm conflicted about the Ward Museum. It's beautifully designed, iconic building, but I agree its location limits the possibilities to connect LeBreton with Zibi. Furthermore, it's cut-off from the river, which is disappointing. Shipping and receiving should have been off Vimy Place with the parking entrance/exit, and not on the river side.

LeBreton Flats Park is also a limiting factor. Outside of Bluesfest and a few other events, it's just a big empty grass field, and if we want to continue hosting these events, I don't see what we can do to improve it. Might have been better to build the museum and park at Bayview, though the current location is probably limited in height due to the viewplanes anyway.

It's part of the reason why I was looking around that part of Lebreton on Google Maps. I was wondering if there was a possibility to create a connection between Zibi and Lebreton and saw that empty parcel of land that could've been used to create another draw to the area (Rec Room, 3-4 story building with an indoor market a la Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia, Aquarium, etc). Possibility is there, but it seems they just want to flood a giant parcel of land with just monuments - which removes the significance of having just one there (it's not like I disagree with the other one coming up, but they could have easily integrated that on the other side of the Flats so that there is an incentive to go for a walk across Lebreton if one is interested in visiting monuments).

[J.OT13]

Exactly, monuments need to stand on their own to be truly appreciated. Pilling them all up in a monuments district negates their significance. It's the DCDLS vision, but for monuments where they just piled a bunch of "attractions" together in a large, barren plaza.

They can have a monument on each end of the Bayview Park, they can have one at the intersection of Portage and Wellington, one at Union Station once that intersection is rebuilt, have one at Zibi somewhere. It's not like we're running out of space for monuments; spread them out in spots where they have more significance.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Exactly, monuments need to stand on their own to be truly appreciated. Pilling them all up in a monuments district negates their significance. It's the DCDLS vision, but for monuments where they just piled a bunch of "attractions" together in a large, barren plaza.

They can have a monument on each end of the Bayview Park, they can have one at the intersection of Portage and Wellington, one at Union Station once that intersection is rebuilt, have one at Zibi somewhere. It's not like we're running out of space for monuments; spread them out in spots where they have more significance.

Yeah, would have been much better and a better use for land because then they can fit them into areas that they can't do much with (not big enough for a development and not small enough to just leave as is).

Also agree with the point of the covered tracks over Lebreton. Would have been a good opportunity to make an indoor market over the tracks that connected to some of the other buildings and areas across the district. Also would have created more revenue for the city via air rights and property taxes from additional area space that is pretty much not going to be utilized in another way except for the tracks if left open.

[rocketphish]

Lots of work happening behind the scenes to build at LeBreton
Senators president of business operations Anthony LeBlanc and Erin Crowe, the club's chief financial officer, have been hard at work since the club won preferred bidder status.

Bruce Garrioch, Ottawa Citizen
Sep 07, 2022 • 2 hours ago • 4 minute read

If you build it, they will come.

And behind the scenes the Ottawa Senators are working hard at making the dream of building a new rink at LeBreton Flats a reality.

Senators president of business operations Anthony LeBlanc and Erin Crowe, the club’s chief financial officer, have been hard at work since the club won preferred bidder status for a major events centre from the National Capital Commission during a meeting June 23.

While the two sides have already reached an agreement in principle with a memorandum of understanding in place for a new rink, the two sides now have approximately 13 months to get a lease agreement on paper that will be approved by the NCC’s board of directors.

Last month, Crowe, LeBlanc and officials from the NCC toured buildings in Seattle and Edmonton to give government officials a glimpse of what the club imagines LeBreton could look like.

Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle and Rogers Place in Edmonton are both state of the art buildings. The expectation is Crowe and LeBlanc will also tour the likes of Little Caesars Arena in Detroit, the UBS Arena in Belmont, N.Y., and the Crypto.com Arena in Los Angeles.

“It’s huge. I still love the Canadian Tire Centre, and it’s a great building, but it’s almost 30 years old,” said LeBlanc. “The business has changed, and the way people want to consume live entertainment and hockey has changed. We need to evolve in that manner.

“You saw the presentation from Aramark showing some of the new (food) offerings, and that’s indication we’re listening to our fans. We want to offer more than your typical hotdog and a beer. People want to experience a much different environment. That’s why we’re going to see what they’ve done in Edmonton, Seattle and some other buildings, and really learn from we see.”

The partnership includes Sterling Project Development, Populous, Tipping Point Sports and Live Nation. All are well-funded and have experience in building rinks. NCC chief executive officer Tobi Nussbaum noted the depth of the club’s partnership group gave the Senators the edge.

LeBlanc said it’s too early to predict when shovels will go in the ground, but he wanted to update people to let them know there’s work being done.

“Everyone needs to understand that we’ve been working very closely with the people from the NCC,” said LeBlanc. “Them coming on the road for those two initial site visits, and they’re going to continue to come with us. That was important because I think it was eye-opening for them to understand, this is what we can reasonably look at as a small footprint like they have in Seattle.

“Also what are some of the customer-facing aspects in Edmonton that we don’t have here currently. We’ll take the 13 months that we have in the due-diligence period and I’m confident we’re going to hit that date, if not earlier. We’re certainly planning as if we’re going to be in this facility for the next few years.”

What’s interesting is LeBlanc said he believes a capacity of 16,000 to 16,500 would be the ideal scenario for a new rink and also fewer suites. The Canadian Tire Centre had 180 suites when it was first built and that number has been lowered to 123.

People want social spaces.

“That 16,000 to 16,500 is probably a great bowl capacity for the Senators,” LeBlanc said. “That’s a question we need to go to the fan base about. We’re going to start public consultations here soon. Maybe it’s 50 season-seat members at a time and they tell us what we’re looking for.”

With the untimely passing of owner Eugene Melnyk in late March, the management is reporting to the three-person board — Sheldon Plener, Larry Zeifman and John Miszuk — and they’re kept up to date on the day-to-day operations.

“The board is active,” said LeBlanc. “I would say (Crowe) or I speak with one or all members of the board on a daily basis. They’re involved, but I’m also happy to say they feel confident in the leadership they have with Erin, Pierre Dorion and myself.

“We have a good, strong staff. We’re rebuilding the culture and we’re pleased with where we’re at.”

The Senators and the good people at Aramark offered samples of what’s new on the menu at the rink during the presentation Wednesday. All we can tell you with great certainty: Have the poutine. It can’t be good for you, but it sure tasted great. Huge thumbs up. Also there will be a “Grab and Go” concession stand set up on one of the concourses. Looks like easy technology for fans to use to grab a beer or bag of popcorn … Dorion has been leaning on LeBlanc and Crowe to find a way to connect a practice facility to the new arena at LeBreton Flats, but it doesn’t sound like that will be the case. There just won’t be room on the parcel of land to make that a reality. There may be a residential building or a hotel attached to the building … Dorion said talks are continuing with Wade Arnott, the Toronto-based agent at Newport Sports, for restricted free agent winger Alex Formenton. He remains the club’s only unsigned player after defenceman Erik Brannstrom inked a deal Monday … Fan Fest will return this season on Sunday, Sept. 25.

[email protected]
Twitter: @sungarrioch

https://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hoc...ld-at-lebreton

[J.OT13]

Nice to see some updates. We only had those at NCC Board Meeting when RVL was being discussed. Great to see the team and NCC taking these trips to view similar venues to what we might build in the near future.

Certainly a positive change of tone with the new management:

“It’s huge. I still love the Canadian Tire Centre, and it’s a great building, but it’s almost 30 years old,” said LeBlanc. “The business has changed, and the way people want to consume live entertainment and hockey has changed. We need to evolve in that manner.

When Melnyk was around during the RVL days, he spoke negatively about the location of the CTC and spoke of the Downtown rink as if it was an absolute necessity (until he didn't). Though he did continue to invest in making the CTC better.

Dorion has been leaning on LeBlanc and Crowe to find a way to connect a practice facility to the new arena at LeBreton Flats, but it doesn’t sound like that will be the case. There just won’t be room on the parcel of land to make that a reality.

That's too bad. It would have been a great addition. Best case scenario, the City and Sens could work together to replace Tom Brown for a new build that could double as a community rink and practice facility. Maybe we could add a pool or gym in there as well while we're at it.

If the Sens partnerships believes 16k to 16.5k is the right size, I trust their judgement. Their team is composed of experts who have done this time and time again.

I do wonder the cost for every extra thousand seats. It's not just the bowl, but the concourse, concessions and washrooms. It's also a larger space on a tight lot.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

If the Sens partnerships believes 16k to 16.5k is the right size, I trust their judgement. Their team is composed of experts who have done this time and time again.

I do wonder the cost for every extra thousand seats. It's not just the bowl, but the concourse, concessions and washrooms. It's also a larger space on a tight lot.

He was also speaking of "bowl" capacity, which I would read to exclude things like boxes, fan decks, bars and (hopefully) standing room. Those areas could easily add 1000 or 1500 to the total capacity.