Lloyd District News

[urbanlife]

Wow, I can't believe they are actually gonna waste time and money to submit this proposal. They could just mail me a check for me to tell them it ain't gonna happen.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

Wow, I can't believe they are actually gonna waste time and money to submit this proposal.

I have to assume they're submitting something truly awful in hopes of lowering the bar for what eventually gets approved.

[PhillyPDX]

Hopefully. Again though, as long as Lloyd center exists in its current state, it likely limits what could be financially viable on this lot; the lot is much too isolated. There are urban Home Depots (Manhattan) so maybe they can improve and make it decent.

Unfortunate too, since Holladay Park is such a nice park, maybe even the nicest urban square in Portland that I've seen. One can easily envision the park surrounded by nice buildings, people eating at street cafes, etc. But I walk by most days and it's just a weird space at this point, people screaming incoherently often, I saw a car being actively broken into next to the park last week at 5pm (I wasn't about to say anything with my kids in my bike). My kids daycare is less than a block away and they won't even take the kids to the park for safety reasons. Maybe a busy Home Depot isn't such a bad thing....(of course busy Trader Joe's and Target at Hollywood hasn't seemed to help that area at all).

[Tykendo]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

Hopefully. Again though, as long as Lloyd center exists in its current state, it likely limits what could be financially viable on this lot; the lot is much too isolated. There are urban Home Depots (Manhattan) so maybe they can improve and make it decent.

Unfortunate too, since Holladay Park is such a nice park, maybe even the nicest urban square in Portland that I've seen. One can easily envision the park surrounded by nice buildings, people eating at street cafes, etc. But I walk by most days and it's just a weird space at this point, people screaming incoherently often, I saw a car being actively broken into next to the park last week at 5pm (I wasn't about to say anything with my kids in my bike). My kids daycare is less than a block away and they won't even take the kids to the park for safety reasons. Maybe a busy Home Depot isn't such a bad thing....(of course busy Trader Joe's and Target at Hollywood hasn't seemed to help that area at all).

I love this city, as most of you do. I deliver food from and to the area. It's wild to see how good the bones of Lloyd Center still are. I grew up going there. It's an airy mall that should be booming with foot traffic, as much as a mall can these days. I think the tree's in Holiday Park might need to be pruned back to provide more light in the park during the day and night. The city will have to create security and cleaning crews to patrol the area on a regular basis. The neighborhoods around Lloyd Center are thriving , and super nice. Lloyd center should be a community gathering place for those communities. Not a place for vagrants, thieves, and other malcontents. Bring night concerts & marketplaces to Holiday Park once it's cleaned up. People could walk, use Max, or park in Lloyd Center. Retail is important & vital to get people back, and make it less hospitable to those who are only up to no good. Once the city starts impounding Street Racer's cars and selling them for city good, that should help curtail that as well. Lloyd Center can thrive again.

[downtownpdx]

Lloyd Center has long had issues with crime, probably since the 80s. I think all this tinkering with the mall is just going nowhere. The massive parking garage frontage just kill any hope for a vibrant street life in that immediate area. There is such a great opportunity in this part of town, especially with all the residential that's been developed. But I just feel like demolishing and replacing it with mixed use, and reintroducing the street grid, is the only way to get this neighborhood to realize its full potential.

[DMH]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

Lloyd Center has long had issues with crime, probably since the 80s. I think all this tinkering with the mall is just going nowhere. The massive parking garage frontage just kill any hope for a vibrant street life in that immediate area. There is such a great opportunity in this part of town, especially with all the residential that's been developed. But I just feel like demolishing and replacing it with mixed use, and reintroducing the street grid, is the only way to get this neighborhood to realize its full potential.

I agree. And I know that I am repeating myself, but the 200-ft block size needs to be extended through the massive Lloyd Center site. That means that NE 10th through 14th Avenues would be extended south from Irvington to NE Multnomah St, and NE Clackamas & NE Wasco would be extended east from NE 9th to NE 15th/16th. Alternating blocks could be pedestrian-only as was done in developing the rail yards of the north Pearl District. In fact, it would be a no-brainer to make the NE 12th Avenue extension a green pedestrian promenade from NE Broadway to Holladay Park. Now THAT would really help to connect Holladay Park to the residents in Irvington and activate the isolated gem of a park. I would also hope that a mix of high-rise and low-rise residential buildings could be envisioned for the redevelopment site, much as has been done successfully in the Pearl District.

[Tykendo]

You guys are probably right. I grew up with Lloyd Center being the place to go. But the outside is not inviting, and doesn't match the openness inside. Best to clear it, and start over.

[pdxsg34]

Originally Posted by downtownpdx

Lloyd Center has long had issues with crime, probably since the 80s. I think all this tinkering with the mall is just going nowhere. The massive parking garage frontage just kill any hope for a vibrant street life in that immediate area. There is such a great opportunity in this part of town, especially with all the residential that's been developed. But I just feel like demolishing and replacing it with mixed use, and reintroducing the street grid, is the only way to get this neighborhood to realize its full potential.

This

[PhillyPDX]

Sorry to bump this thread, but was just thinking about the mall. My sons both started skating lessons in the last few weeks, so I got to thinking about the place after years of never being inside. Outside of the rink it’s mostly quiet, with few stores open and even fewer shoppers. Even aside from the opportunity cost of the land, is it even financially viable in its current state to pay for utilities and general repair? I can’t imagine so with so much square footage earning zero revenue. How will it even afford heating this winter? Heating so much unused space can’t be easy. Just wait until the building needs roof repairs or some other major investment. What’s the rented square footage now, maybe 10%?

So then I’m thinking, these owners have to be up something. I can’t image we don’t hear something significant in the next 1-2 years. They are likely losing money every day, with no end in sight. And the land has so much value for other uses. Malls are (mostly)) dead, so I can’t imagine that’s a serious consideration, although they will likely kick the tires on a reboot. But when you see what has done in pearl/slabtown/s. waterfront/Vancouver waterfront, with an entire neighborhood created out of thin air, it seems like such an obvious choice.

[maccoinnich]

A few small tenants have moved in recently, so ownership is clearly trying to keep the center as activated as they can, but I doubt the rent paid by those businesses is generating any significant amount of cashflow. Presumably there's a team of architects, lawyers, etc working on things behind the scenes.

[PhillyPDX]

So after my many complaints about the safety issues I see at Holladay park (in case anyone thought I was just fear mongering). This happened yesterday. Literally 100 feet from my kids daycare entrance, at pick up time near where parents park to get their kids.

https://katu.com/news/local/police-inves...aday-park-in-ne-portlands-lloyd-district

This after 2 weeks ago I had to tell building security that a guy was on the kid drop-off sidewalk with needles. When security arrived he had scampered, but left 12 syringes on the sidewalk with toddlers walking by.

What a mess Portland is right now. My wife and I are starting to seriously consider what to do next. Bullets fly, kids will pick up bright orange syringes on the sidewalk. I can't risk collateral damage when it comes to my kids.

Lloyd needs redevelopment in a serious way to clean this up.

[CorbinWarrick]

Damn so sorry to hear that. I don’t know how we let this happen to this city. Then I noticed the other day there’s tents all up along the fenced off parking lot for the movie theater. This was an area just 3-4 years ago was primed to be the next big redevelopment for Portland. Just a sad turn of events

[DMH]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

Damn so sorry to hear that. I don’t know how we let this happen to this city. Then I noticed the other day there’s tents all up along the fenced off parking lot for the movie theater. This was an area just 3-4 years ago was primed to be the next big redevelopment for Portland. Just a sad turn of events

I have noticed a tendency to have a myopic view when looking at Portland's continuing problem of homelessness, mental illness, and drug addiction. These are a national US problem. The three problem conditions I listed are definitely related. Here is just one article on the subject:
https://www.goodencenter.org/homeless-crisis/

It is unfortunate that the Left and the Right cannot agree that the three conditions are linked.

[maccoinnich]

There's no update about the future of the Lloyd Center here, but this is a fascinating look at why it's so difficult to move forward. Assuming, for example, that the new owners wanted to demolish the eastern end of the mall there's no way they can do that while the Sears box is in separate ownership with ongoing litigation.

The Former Sears at Lloyd Center Mall Is Riddled With Debts
The former owners of a segment of Lloyd Center Mall owe $10 million for a Regal multiplex they didn’t build.



Address: 1260 NE Lloyd Center
Year built: 1959
Square footage: 142,966
Market value: $5,541,310
Owner: CAPREF Lloyd Center East LLC
Property tax owed: $494,523.33
How long it’s been delinquent: Since 2019
What those taxes could buy: Six more cops to patrol the Lloyd District
Why it’s delinquent: Lenders foreclosed on the mall.

Lloyd Center Mall is on life support. Injured years before, the mall went critical during the pandemic as shoppers stayed home in droves. KKR Real Estate Finance Trust, the lender that helped Dallas-based Cypress Equities finance the place back in 2015, foreclosed in December 2021 after Cypress stopped making loan payments.

But a funny thing happened on the way to bankruptcy court. Cypress had a different lender on one piece of the mall, the part that used to be Sears.

Sears Roebuck & Co. bought the space in 1999, according to property records. CAPREF Lloyd Center East LLC, an affiliate of Cypress, bought the space from Sears in 2016 as part of its plan to revive the entire mall, with, among other things, a smaller ice rink (go figure) and a fancy new spiral staircase.

...continues at Willamette Week.

[pdxsg34]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

There's no update about the future of the Lloyd Center here, but this is a fascinating look at why it's so difficult to move forward. Assuming, for example, that the new owners wanted to demolish the eastern end of the mall there's no way they can do that while the Sears box is in separate ownership with ongoing litigation.

What a cluster. The longer LC exists, the more annoyed I get that it exists. It served its purpose, and IMO, needs to be leveled for modern needs (housing, etc.). It's really too bad the Lloyd area continues to struggle. The huge tax lots, parking lots, failed Oregon Square development, rampant homeless activity, failed LC parking lot housing development (hopefully a failed Home Depot development), and overall "run-down-ness" makes me wonder if the city can offer any additional benefits (beyond Opp Zones) to encourage something positive. I'm hopeful the Skyview gets built, although even that appears to not have ground floor retail facing the bike bridge and the buidling would be surrounded by parking lots/garages on all sides. So much potential, but appears to be an incredible climb to realizing it.

[CorbinWarrick]

The planners and designers of the new Vancouver waterfront need to take on the Lloyd district. Those guys are amazing and move fast.

[PhillyPDX]

Almost seems like keystone could foreclose on the sears property, and regal creditors could be made whole separately by suing Cypress (unless both the regal creditors and keystone could make claims to the sears property?). It does make me wonder though why Keystone sued Cypress instead of just foreclosing on the Sears property?

At which point KKR could negotiate a deal to buy out the Keystone Sears property. Can't imagine they want anything to do with that small parcel anymore, just cut losses as best they can and get out. KKR has more much skin in the game at this point, let them redevelop the entire site.

But this also takes times....so maybe that's why the half-arsed attempt to rebrand the mall in the short term as an arts district (and whose stores are also already closing). Buys them a few years until the legal side can be figured out.

[DMH]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

The planners and designers of the new Vancouver waterfront need to take on the Lloyd district. Those guys are amazing and move fast.

It is not the case that the Lloyd area needs those specific Vancouver planners or designers. Released from the current ownership entanglements / bankruptcy burdens, Lloyd Center's potential for complete makeover / redevelopment would attract the most talented and visionary developers and designers in the US.

[maccoinnich]

Also, Gramor purchased the Vancouver waterfront site in 2008. What you see going up now is the result of 15 years of work.

[PhillyPDX]

Has there been any more discussion on the proposed home depot development? Looks like that's been 6 months now since it was announced.

I drove past the Vancouver mall last Saturday, and the parking lots were completely full. Very surprising to me. So it's not just that malls are dead (my assumption....only partially correct I guess), Lloyd is a special kind of really dead. And it's not like Vancouver mall is some kind of regional attraction mall, I bet Lloyd was even more of a destination its prime. Seeing that and I was like, oh man, that's really not good for Lloyd with maybe a total of 100 cars at the same time (Saturday afternoon).