LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[craigs]

Originally Posted by nmkef

Here's links to fullsize:

https://imgur.com/a/VL9CZhw

https://imgur.com/a/u3SjdDp

I have some wider angles I can post later.

FYI, while my shot is from a private rooftop, you can get similar views from the Proper Hotel in DTLA (Cara Cara restaurant)

Thanks so much! The Beaudry has really made its mark on the skyline, as seen from the west and the south.

[ocman]

Originally Posted by caligrad

True. But they are already competing with the food trucks who park sometimes on Olympic, places in Pico Union, Westlake and etc. Similar scenario in Downtown Long Beach. Food trucks line Ocean Blvd. a lot of nights, competing with restaurants along Pine, at the pike and surrounding area. People who want fine/fancy dining will eat at those places. People who are currently leaving staples and "heading home" to eat will have an option. If anything, people lingering in the plaza will push up demand to eat regardless. 20 + years of staples center, SOOO many games/concerts/ shows and i can honestly tell you I've only eaten 3 times there. the other 95% of the time i run to cheaper options elsewhere.

The restaurants there are just corporate licensing deals like the types of places that anchor a middle-class simon mall. They are so many options to make LA Live less generically corporate, cold and sterile which is really the underlying problem. You’re surrounding by silver metal panels all around you and that’s an obvious issue (just not to Anschutz). It’s build like one of those self-cleaning public toilets. Just very low maintenance.

More benches/seating, overhead shade, string light canopies, greenery, trees. Materials other than grey metal (wood, stone). So many options. In fact, taking design tips from a Simon Mall would be an upgrade. At least a Simon Mall makes you want to hang around a bit.

They’re spending a lot on their renovations, but you can tell, the build and execution is going to be very cheap, desk-job architecture. This is their logo for God’s sake:

[citywatch]

could be better, could be worse....only nyc stood to me as the biggest city ranking higher among mainly smaller downtowns in this list.

https://www.downtownrecovery.com/dashboards/recovery_ranking.html


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I recall when the Spring St arcade...at 3:09....was nothing but a line of swapmeets. So pre pandemic or post pandemic, today's dtla is better in certain ways than it has ever been in over 50 yrs.

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[citywatch]

this youtuber again gives a good walking tour of the area from around grand LA & disney hall, the top of angel's fight to around city national bank plaza, formerly known as Arco plaza. The owner of those bldgs has given the plaza a more welcoming look. I recall when Arco Plaza, or cnb plaza, was a mostly wind swept area, mainly barren with none of the street furniture & landscaping that's there now.

the jsocal youtube account in general gives walking views of other parts of LA & socal, & shows why dtla is just one part of a really great metro area. So dt has to compete for ppl's time & attention with lots of other friendly or welcoming hoods. Other cities are tourist friendly in mainly one location...more centralized....& aren't as spread out as far & wide as in socal. So although the sidewalks of dtla aren't jammed with ppl as in a tokyo or london, I much prefer the LA area...dtla too....to those traditional cities.


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[caligrad]

Originally Posted by ocman

The restaurants there are just corporate licensing deals like the types of places that anchor a middle-class simon mall. They are so many options to make LA Live less generically corporate, cold and sterile which is really the underlying problem. You’re surrounding by silver metal panels all around you and that’s an obvious issue (just not to Anschutz). It’s build like one of those self-cleaning public toilets. Just very low maintenance.

More benches/seating, overhead shade, string light canopies, greenery, trees. Materials other than grey metal (wood, stone). So many options. In fact, taking design tips from a Simon Mall would be an upgrade. At least a Simon Mall makes you want to hang around a bit.

They’re spending a lot on their renovations, but you can tell, the build and execution is going to be very cheap, desk-job architecture. This is their logo for God’s sake:

I agree. Del Amo mall after the new additions and upgrades is always packed and stores are always busy. Simon partially owns that one, the updated/ new areas are beautiful, sees lots of foot traffic and people actually hang out and lounge around. The older 1/4 of the mall that hasn't been updated yet and still looks like it's from the 80s/90s sees a fraction of the foot traffic, is dark, sterile, old. AEG should have tapd Simon to help them figure it out, or at least borrow one of their designers because Chick Hearn court and LA live deserves better.

[scania]

Originally Posted by ocman

The restaurants there are just corporate licensing deals like the types of places that anchor a middle-class simon mall. They are so many options to make LA Live less generically corporate, cold and sterile which is really the underlying problem. You’re surrounding by silver metal panels all around you and that’s an obvious issue (just not to Anschutz). It’s build like one of those self-cleaning public toilets. Just very low maintenance.

More benches/seating, overhead shade, string light canopies, greenery, trees. Materials other than grey metal (wood, stone). So many options. In fact, taking design tips from a Simon Mall would be an upgrade. At least a Simon Mall makes you want to hang around a bit.

They’re spending a lot on their renovations, but you can tell, the build and execution is going to be very cheap, desk-job architecture. This is their logo for God’s sake:

I hear what you are saying…but Fixins is always packed a lot of times you see people walking around waiting for a couple of hours just to get seated. The vibe at Fixins is very energetic. Also, especially when there is a game, you have so many tourist that spends money just to see a Lakers game in person. You need some of those chain restaurants so people have restaurants that are familiar and easy for them to eat. With that being said, I’m not sure what could be done, especially if you’re keeping the infrastructure in place. What I can tell you is that when there are games the spacing is very nice, when the bulk of fans pretty much use one or two entrances.

[citywatch]

I notice the metro LA section has a post about a new office tower in century city about ready to go forward....I admit to following mainly only what's going on in dtla, so I don't have a clear idea of what proj in west LA that is or isn't sure wish news was also about ready to be released about the former equity residential apt tower at 4th & Hill St...or even oceanwide....going forward.....can't have everything.

Since I think dtla needs the westside more than the westside needs dtla, the new subway from dt to areas way beyond western ave probably will help dt the most. But if the rail line isn't kept safe & clean, it will come up short. But making dtla seem less of a chore to get to...& ppl not having to rely solely on routes like the miserable 10 fwy...will be a big boost.


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[craigs]

Not downtown-specific per se, but reason for optimism and a part of what is driving our city to rebound from pandemic lows:

International travel resurgent at LAX, with nearly 100% year-over-year increase in passengers

Christian Martinez
Los Angeles Times
August 30, 2022

Los Angeles International Airport saw 1.8 million international travelers last month, nearly double the number from July 2021, airport officials said Monday.

The year-over-year increase is a sign of continued recovery for the travel industry, but numbers still have yet to reach pre-pandemic levels; in July 2019, more than 2.5 million international passengers flew through LAX.

Between January and July, the airport saw 8.7 million international passengers, up more than 141% from the same period last year.

Overall traffic at LAX — both international and domestic — is up 57% from last year.

“The strong rebound in international travel that we have seen during the peak summer months is very encouraging and adding to our overall growth in passenger numbers this season,” Justin Erbacci, chief executive of Los Angeles World Airports, said in a news release.

The numbers of flights available to Mexico and Canada have rebounded to near pre-pandemic figures, and flights to the Middle East have exceeded levels last seen in 2019.

But the numbers of flights to and from Europe and Asia continue to lag behind pre-pandemic availability, with travel to Asia from LAX still less than half of what it was before the pandemic.

In July 2019, 2,521 flights and more than 775,319 seats were available from LAX to Asia, representing the largest international destination for the airport. Fewer than 1,140 Asia-bound flights and just under 324,000 seats were available last month.

[LA21st]

The city seems busier than in a long time. And the tourists are back everywhere.
The buses and trains are PACKED. I'm on the buses more so, but damn.
It seems busier than pre covid.

When they said we have more people on transit than SF now, I believe it.

[caligrad]

^^^ Yeah, I saw that read as well. Interesting. But believable. If only Metro saw that and realized the potential. They might see that and think the opposite "well our job here is done" haha.

But yeah, its busier than usual. Even in the most unlikely places. Down the street from my place is a taco spot called "Hole Mole" in Long Beach on 4th street. Today what i assume was a German tourist with his wife and kid asked me "is this a place we can eat real tacos".... I didn't have the heart to tell him..... I just told him "Yeah and today they are a dollar", he clapped and I immediately was embarrassed.

But its miles away from downtown and any "touristy" spots in Long Beach. It was odd. but welcome.

[citywatch]

Another good walkaround tour that shows how the 2 new apt towers on Fig St work in tandem with the 7th @ fig shopping ctr. Although the former gap between the parking structure & 7th @ fig didn't bother me as much as other gaps in dt did....such as the parking lot across the street where the mitsui bldg is now going up....it's good it will soon be an active bldg.


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don't know enough about the economics of dtla to figure out if certain projs are delayed or cancelled because the rate of return won't be high enough. A new office tower supposedly will soon start going up in century city because demand for that kind of space has been better in west LA than dtla. But if apt or condo space does well in dt, then I don't know why that kind of devlpt is delayed or cancelled....such as equity's proj at 4th & Hill St.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by craigs

Not downtown-specific per se, but reason for optimism and a part of what is driving our city to rebound from pandemic lows:

since I'm native to LA & haven't lived elsewhere, there's the saying that familiarity breeds contempt. Or a person at least becomes apathetic about what they're accustomed to. Vids of this youtuber, of not just dtla but also of other areas throughout the LA basin...which I consider as including the OC...have given me a better sense of what things are all about....

https://www.youtube.com/c/JSOCAL1


dtla has also reached a level to where it's more competitive with other hoods in LA. When bldgs like the freeman hotel were still abandoned old office bldgs...or the former commercial exchange bldg...that wasn't the case.

I recall a post several yrs ago in a blog from a person in the midwest who traveled here for a NYD rose bowl game. He said in previous yrs, he'd stay in areas other than dtla, such as around pasadena or west LA. But he noted that dtla was now as good a place to book a hotel rm as other areas in LA had been. I recall a time when even hotels in torrance, in the south Bay, did better than hotels in dtla did.

[caligrad]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/remote...ws&cvid=905804bf13754da880d007b92cd0f7f1

Interesting quick article about the state of downtowns in North America, post pandemic (that we're still kinda in? I don't remember), anyway, surprisingly, DTLA fared better than most other major cities at a 61% rebound. SF, Chicago and others were worse. Overall economic activity rebounded city wide by 82%.

Before people make assumptions and say that those numbers seem low, not even a handful of cities have recovered 100% yet, only 3, Columbus (downtown), Jacksonville (overall city) San Diego (overall city).

https://www.downtownrecovery.com/death_of_downtown_policy_brief.pdf

[craigs]

Moving from Northern California last summer, LA has seemed consistently busier and more vibrant since I got here, and has only gotten more so since then. That UC Berkeley study bears out my perception.

[citywatch]

https://youtu.be/soZxcRg4b3Y

^ I noticed traffic getting worse some time ago...actually over a yr ago. I was driving from LAX to dt & it was bumper to bumper for just about the entire length of the way...& that was way after 2020.

When I'm around the fwys near dtla...& they're all crowded...I always wonder how many ppl add to the congestion because (1) they can't afford to live closer by...(2) they don't care for the area....(3) they demand a 3.5 bedrm house with a backyard...(4) their workplace just changed within the past few months & they haven't had time to move closer?

The only ppl stuck on those jammed roads who I feel sorry for are ppl whose paycheck forces limits on them. They don't have many options....& I don't expect anyone to want to live in a slumlord type place. Ppl with kids & a need for good schools I also give some space to.

But the ppl who I don't feel sorry for? I read several yrs ago about a well paid executive relocating from chicago whose office was in dtla. He chose a rental in manhattan bch. How many ppl are like him?

Ppl similar to that really come to mind when I notice the sidewalks of dtla & parts of MTA's rail transit system that are somewhat safe & clean aren't too busy. Ppl on jammed fwys & who could easily afford a place in...for example...the Beaudry or Mitsui apt towers...means newer projs had better fill up rather quickly.

[sopas ej]

From Urbanize Los Angeles:

Oceanwide aims to restart work on stalled DTLA mega-project in 2023
If the developer can secure funding

SEPTEMBER 01, 2022, 6:30AMSTEVEN SHARP



In January 2019, following months of rumors of a shortfall in financing, construction came to a halt on the more than $1-billion Oceanwide Plaza complex across the street from L.A. Live in Downtown Los Angeles. But well over three years later, the Chinese real estate developer behind the three-tower high-rise complex is looking to right the ship.

In an "unaudited interim results" report dated August 29, Oceanwide Holdings provided a status report on its Los Angeles project, which would include 504 condominiums, a 184-room Park Hyatt hotel, and approximately 150,000 square feet of retail space on a fully city block bounded by Figueroa, Flower, 11th, and 12th Streets. According to the developer, the physical structures and curtain walls of the three main towers are the only elements of the project to have been completed. Within the buildings, more than 85 percent of the electrical and mechanical work have been completing, and 60 percent of drywall installation has been completed in two of the towers.

After continued delays - which have been attributed to "liquidity issues," a lawsuit filed by Oceanwide Plaza's general contractor, and impacts of the global pandemic - the developer now indicates that it is in active negotiations with investors in pursuit of financing to complete construction and pay off all debts to the project's creditors. However, those efforts have faced headwinds, including rising construction costs, declines in residential leasing and sales profits, and the increased cost of financing as a result of interest rate hikes.

Oceanwide, according to its report, now aims to restart construction on the project in 2023, after which point it is expected to take two years to complete the partially finished towers and install elements including LED signage and landscaped amenity decks. Based on that timeline, the property could open as early as 2025.

The cost of resuming work on the project remains steep. In February, The Real Deal reported that the developer would need to raise $2.3 billion to complete construction of Oceanwide Plaza. To date, the Oceanwide Holdings indicates that it has spent roughly $1.2 billion on the tower complex.


Link: https://la.urbanize.city/post/oceanwide-...-pbEun6KAISe_Gh9wMpL2pKXBjZm4iD0lU7ZzLLE

[38 Geary]

^ Why not just sell off the tower and have someone else complete it? Seems highly unlikely they'd be able to raise $2.3 billion. This sounds like it would just keep this project in limbo.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by homebucket

^ Why not just sell off the tower and have someone else complete it? Seems highly unlikely they'd be able to raise $2.3 billion. This sounds like it would just keep this project in limbo.

I personally think it'd make a great UCLA Extension campus. They can sell Bruin-wear, open up a coffee and ale house called The Brewin' Bruin...

[38 Geary]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

I personally think it'd make a great UCLA Extension campus. They can sell Bruin-wear, open up a coffee and ale house called The Brewin' Bruin...

If that's what it'll take to complete the project, I'm all for it! Does UCLA have $2.3 billion laying around though...

[Zapatan]

The cost of resuming work on the project remains steep. In February, The Real Deal reported that the developer would need to raise $2.3 billion to complete construction of Oceanwide Plaza. To date, the Oceanwide Holdings indicates that it has spent roughly $1.2 billion on the tower complex.

So basically the project will remain on hold as is... great