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  #4001  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2022, 7:05 AM
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hollywoodnorth hollywoodnorth is offline
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
Yep, and apparently the provinces only plans on the table are adding a sixth lane to the bridge (D- idea) or turning the fifth lane into a counter flow lane… (F idea).
Sixth lane contemplated for Bennett bridge — second crossing is not
https://infotel.ca/inwheels/sixth-lane-c...tt-bridge-second-crossing-is-not/it92667

interesting I didn't even know that was a possibility.
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  #4002  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2022, 11:53 AM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth View Post
Sixth lane contemplated for Bennett bridge — second crossing is not
https://infotel.ca/inwheels/sixth-lane-c...tt-bridge-second-crossing-is-not/it92667

interesting I didn't even know that was a possibility.
They can move the multiuse path to the side of the bridge supported on steel brackets and turn the existing path which is on the concrete deck into a travel lane. They will have make modifications to storm drains. A 6th lane from Abbott to Water would also have to be shoehorned in somehow.

They could also better time the traffic signals to better evacuate traffic off the bridge. It's infuriating that the lights are green at Abbott but traffic is backed up because of the red light at Water.
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  #4003  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2022, 12:54 PM
KelownaResident KelownaResident is offline
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I don't think a second crossing is a good idea. For one it sounds impossibly expensive (who pays for it and what gets put on hold?) and secondly it just keeps promoting car dependency and rewarding habits that are mostly unnecessary and are terrible for our environment. If you're wasting so much time crossing from West Kelowna to Kelowna on and everyday basis maybe you should just move to Kelowna, downsize if you have to.
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  #4004  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2022, 3:42 PM
Papabear1 Papabear1 is offline
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Originally Posted by KelownaResident View Post
I don't think a second crossing is a good idea. For one it sounds impossibly expensive (who pays for it and what gets put on hold?) and secondly it just keeps promoting car dependency and rewarding habits that are mostly unnecessary and are terrible for our environment. If you're wasting so much time crossing from West Kelowna to Kelowna on and everyday basis maybe you should just move to Kelowna, downsize if you have to.
Well, for starters, we can start by pumping the brakes on the belief that only the lower mainland has traffic issues. Car dependency? Let's face it, getting the groceries on your bicycle ain't making things easier for anyone. Despite the big dreams, Kelowna won't ever see an LRT system that would connect to the west side and the current transit routes are not feasible for folks living halfway up a mountainside. Highly unlikely they would even consider public transit in the first place, after all, the bus is stuck on the bridge too.

The provincial government doesn't seem to have an issue with spending $4 billion on a skytrain extension to service Langley (population 29,000 - region 137,000). Second crossing likely $1.5 billion (West Kelowna, 38,000 - region 222,000). From my viewpoint, apparently the Okanagan just votes wrong so serious consideration to local infrastructure issues are easy to shove to a back burner because it costs the governments voter support base nothing.

The suggestion to just move to the other side? Seriously? Have you looked at housing stock to even attempt a lateral move in comparable price ranges? Sure, you can sell your house for $1million and move into a condo or a tower for slightly less but I doubt the wife, 3 kids, 2 cats, a dog and Fred the budgie will enjoy the downsize to a 2 bedroom unit even though there is a bbq pit, fake grass and an infinity pool. I work with families throughout the Okanagan and despite the glossy lifestyle that the region emits, a significant portion of the population, you know, normal people, are struggling to keep it together. They have value if they own property that was purchased over 10 years ago, but that money is on paper, it's not in the bank so lets get rid of the notion that everyone is a millionaire now simply because they own something. If you move, you still gotta live somewhere and the money trade currently is off balance. You can make it work if you want to commute into Kelowna from Lake Country I guess but you're not saving yourself any time.

Personally, I am moving to live somewhere to get away from the congestion and the so called "sunshine tax" that apparently makes living in the Okanagan wonderful. Oct 10th and I'm out of this province which I will now enjoy perhaps by vacation now and again and that won't be anywhere near the Okanagan region. My new property, acreage and all of that fun stuff, had alot of interest my realtor told me, and all the inquiries were from people living in BC. Guess I'm not alone in being discouraged by where this province is going.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the densification and towers and all of the other developments going on, but the reality of the growth laid against the growing issues that no one seems to want to fix (complaining and studies are easier) just doesn't fit my lifestyle anymore. Its not just about roads anymore. Schools, healthcare, support services and the list goes on. There is failure, in my opinion, happening all around our feet.

I will watch from afar and admire the growth while not having to deal with the ignored dark side of this uncontrolled transformation of the Okanagan.

Good bye Okanagan and best of luck in your future endeavors.
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  #4005  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 1:44 AM
Repthe250 Repthe250 is offline
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Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
Did you take Boucherie Road or the highway? The locals usually know to avoid the highway, unless we have to cross the lake then it's sort of inevtiable.
I took the highway the first time. Then that’s when I was informed by my family to take Boucherie.
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  #4006  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 1:48 AM
Repthe250 Repthe250 is offline
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Originally Posted by KelownaResident View Post
I don't think a second crossing is a good idea. For one it sounds impossibly expensive (who pays for it and what gets put on hold?) and secondly it just keeps promoting car dependency and rewarding habits that are mostly unnecessary and are terrible for our environment. If you're wasting so much time crossing from West Kelowna to Kelowna on and everyday basis maybe you should just move to Kelowna, downsize if you have to.
Uh, electric cars are a thing. And still cause traffic and by 2030 or 2040 or whatever it is, will be the only cars allowed to be sold in BC. Also, there’s a housing crisis. You can’t just “move” to Kelowna if you want to. My family was pushed out of Kelowna into west Kelowna. Also, there is no hospital in West Kelowna. If there’s an accident on the bridge and ambulances need to cross, then what?
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  #4007  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 8:39 AM
KelownaResident KelownaResident is offline
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Originally Posted by Repthe250 View Post
Uh, electric cars are a thing. And still cause traffic and by 2030 or 2040 or whatever it is, will be the only cars allowed to be sold in BC. Also, there’s a housing crisis. You can’t just “move” to Kelowna if you want to. My family was pushed out of Kelowna into west Kelowna. Also, there is no hospital in West Kelowna. If there’s an accident on the bridge and ambulances need to cross, then what?

Part or living in West Kelowna means that the commute time is gonna suck. Can't just spend $200,000,000 just to make a few more people more comfortable.

Regarding the hospital, ambulances, I'm sure there are things called helicopters.
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  #4008  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 2:26 PM
Phil McAvity Phil McAvity is offline
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Originally Posted by Papabear1 View Post
Well, for starters, we can start by pumping the brakes on the belief that only the lower mainland has traffic issues. Car dependency? Let's face it, getting the groceries on your bicycle ain't making things easier for anyone. Despite the big dreams, Kelowna won't ever see an LRT system that would connect to the west side and the current transit routes are not feasible for folks living halfway up a mountainside. Highly unlikely they would even consider public transit in the first place, after all, the bus is stuck on the bridge too.

The provincial government doesn't seem to have an issue with spending $4 billion on a skytrain extension to service Langley (population 29,000 - region 137,000). Second crossing likely $1.5 billion (West Kelowna, 38,000 - region 222,000). From my viewpoint, apparently the Okanagan just votes wrong so serious consideration to local infrastructure issues are easy to shove to a back burner because it costs the governments voter support base nothing.

The suggestion to just move to the other side? Seriously? Have you looked at housing stock to even attempt a lateral move in comparable price ranges? Sure, you can sell your house for $1million and move into a condo or a tower for slightly less but I doubt the wife, 3 kids, 2 cats, a dog and Fred the budgie will enjoy the downsize to a 2 bedroom unit even though there is a bbq pit, fake grass and an infinity pool. I work with families throughout the Okanagan and despite the glossy lifestyle that the region emits, a significant portion of the population, you know, normal people, are struggling to keep it together. They have value if they own property that was purchased over 10 years ago, but that money is on paper, it's not in the bank so lets get rid of the notion that everyone is a millionaire now simply because they own something. If you move, you still gotta live somewhere and the money trade currently is off balance. You can make it work if you want to commute into Kelowna from Lake Country I guess but you're not saving yourself any time.

Personally, I am moving to live somewhere to get away from the congestion and the so called "sunshine tax" that apparently makes living in the Okanagan wonderful. Oct 10th and I'm out of this province which I will now enjoy perhaps by vacation now and again and that won't be anywhere near the Okanagan region. My new property, acreage and all of that fun stuff, had alot of interest my realtor told me, and all the inquiries were from people living in BC. Guess I'm not alone in being discouraged by where this province is going.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the densification and towers and all of the other developments going on, but the reality of the growth laid against the growing issues that no one seems to want to fix (complaining and studies are easier) just doesn't fit my lifestyle anymore. Its not just about roads anymore. Schools, healthcare, support services and the list goes on. There is failure, in my opinion, happening all around our feet.

I will watch from afar and admire the growth while not having to deal with the ignored dark side of this uncontrolled transformation of the Okanagan.

Good bye Okanagan and best of luck in your future endeavors.
What's the "sunshine tax"?

Where are you moving?
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  #4009  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 2:43 PM
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giallo giallo is offline
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  #4010  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 11:13 PM
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Bcasey25raptor Bcasey25raptor is offline
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Originally Posted by KelownaResident View Post
I don't think a second crossing is a good idea. For one it sounds impossibly expensive (who pays for it and what gets put on hold?) and secondly it just keeps promoting car dependency and rewarding habits that are mostly unnecessary and are terrible for our environment. If you're wasting so much time crossing from West Kelowna to Kelowna on and everyday basis maybe you should just move to Kelowna, downsize if you have to.
100% agreed. Expand more public transit first, more bikelanes. Kelowna is a dump because it's so unfriendly to transit users and pedestrians. WAY too car centric.
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  #4011  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2022, 11:26 PM
Homerbush Homerbush is offline
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Daily Courier Building comes down

The Daily Courier building started coming down today: https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/38...s-former-home-in-downtown-Kelowna#383298

Make way for UBC-O!
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  #4012  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2022, 12:45 AM
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If it came down to, hypothetically, BRT along Hwy 97/Harvey or a second crossing I'd take the BRT 100 times over.

Great news about UBCO dt!
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  #4013  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2022, 1:15 AM
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Metro-One Metro-One is online now
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Originally Posted by csbvan View Post
If it came down to, hypothetically, BRT along Hwy 97/Harvey or a second crossing I'd take the BRT 100 times over.

Great news about UBCO dt!
The problem being proper BRT requires dedicated lanes and a free corridor. The existing bridge can’t have an entire lane taken away from it now without some horrid traffic jams (worse than now) to go along with it.

And before anyone suggest it, no counter flow lanes. That is the worst way to tackle traffic problems and especially in areas with only a single crossing they create huge traffic jams.

The old Pitt River bridges, the Lion’s Gate and the GMT are prime examples of this terrible approach.
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  #4014  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2022, 2:48 AM
rdave rdave is offline
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Originally Posted by Papabear1 View Post
The suggestion to just move to the other side? Seriously? Have you looked at housing stock to even attempt a lateral move in comparable price ranges? Sure, you can sell your house for $1million and move into a condo or a tower for slightly less but I doubt the wife, 3 kids, 2 cats, a dog and Fred the budgie will enjoy the downsize to a 2 bedroom unit even though there is a bbq pit, fake grass and an infinity pool. I work with families throughout the Okanagan and despite the glossy lifestyle that the region emits, a significant portion of the population, you know, normal people, are struggling to keep it together. They have value if they own property that was purchased over 10 years ago, but that money is on paper, it's not in the bank so lets get rid of the notion that everyone is a millionaire now simply because they own something. If you move, you still gotta live somewhere and the money trade currently is off balance. You can make it work if you want to commute into Kelowna from Lake Country I guess but you're not saving yourself any time.

Personally, I am moving to live somewhere to get away from the congestion and the so called "sunshine tax" that apparently makes living in the Okanagan wonderful. Oct 10th and I'm out of this province which I will now enjoy perhaps by vacation now and again and that won't be anywhere near the Okanagan region. My new property, acreage and all of that fun stuff, had alot of interest my realtor told me, and all the inquiries were from people living in BC. Guess I'm not alone in being discouraged by where this province is going.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the densification and towers and all of the other developments going on, but the reality of the growth laid against the growing issues that no one seems to want to fix (complaining and studies are easier) just doesn't fit my lifestyle anymore. Its not just about roads anymore. Schools, healthcare, support services and the list goes on. There is failure, in my opinion, happening all around our feet.

I will watch from afar and admire the growth while not having to deal with the ignored dark side of this uncontrolled transformation of the Okanagan.

Good bye Okanagan and best of luck in your future endeavors.
Where is your new property? My family in the Central Okanagan is also moving away for many of the same reasons you have mentioned. It's undoubtedly a beautiful part of the world, going through lots of exciting transformitive changes, but it just has so many profound problems.
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  #4015  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2022, 5:35 AM
Phil McAvity Phil McAvity is offline
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Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor View Post
100% agreed. Expand more public transit first, more bikelanes. Kelowna is a dump because it's so unfriendly to transit users and pedestrians. WAY too car centric.
Yup, that's because with ~a tenth the population of greater Vancouver, greater Kelowna is actually slightly bigger which I was astounded to learn the other day
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  #4016  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2022, 7:27 PM
Sheener Sheener is offline
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Yup, that's because with ~a tenth the population of greater Vancouver, greater Kelowna is actually slightly bigger which I was astounded to learn the other day
Genuinely curious what geography you’re using to define these? Central okanagan (Lake Country to Peachland) pop. ~250K and greater Vancouver CMA ~2.6-2.8 million (includes Burnaby, W/N van, Richmond, Surrey, Coq etc) …the later significantly larger in area…
Kelowna is always a tough comparison for use of km2 with other urban areas due to ALR, topography and OK Lake. Agree they can do WAY more to improve transit within the “hub” areas but there are intrinsic challenges beyond municipal historical incompetence.
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  #4017  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2022, 4:53 PM
Repthe250 Repthe250 is offline
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Originally Posted by KelownaResident View Post
Part or living in West Kelowna means that the commute time is gonna suck. Can't just spend $200,000,000 just to make a few more people more comfortable.

Regarding the hospital, ambulances, I'm sure there are things called helicopters.
And you’re worried about the environment ?
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  #4018  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2022, 12:22 AM
KelownaResident KelownaResident is offline
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Originally Posted by Repthe250 View Post
And you’re worried about the environment ?
Are you not?
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  #4019  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2022, 5:35 AM
montyhallgoat montyhallgoat is offline
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
The problem being proper BRT requires dedicated lanes and a free corridor. The existing bridge can’t have an entire lane taken away from it now without some horrid traffic jams (worse than now) to go along with it.

And before anyone suggest it, no counter flow lanes. That is the worst way to tackle traffic problems and especially in areas with only a single crossing they create huge traffic jams.

The old Pitt River bridges, the Lion’s Gate and the GMT are prime examples of this terrible approach.
The Okanagan Floating Bridge had counterflow lanes between 1984-2008 as well.

Kelowna Transit's #97 bus was touted as the state of art 'Kelowna RapidBus' BRT system when the BC Govt introduced it in 2010.
That's why the #97's stop names are appended with '-Station' like Parkinson Station, but #97 RapidBus is a prime example of BRT creep.
Hwy 97 HOV lanes were in effect 24/7 and transit signal priority gave buses the longer green lights, but the HOV hours got reduced to 7am-7pm on weekdays as people complained about empty HOV lanes

I believe there is a preliminary study on adding dedicated bus lanes and queue jumpers in West Kelowna, but I doubt they can attract riders without adding more frequencies and providing significant time savings crossing the bridge compared to cars.
Also West Kelowna has been cutting down on feeder local routes to #97, so that wouldn't help either.

Anyway, it's always the same rhetoric with K-Town residents.
If a bus lane or a true BRT were approved, people would start complaining how incompetent and delusional their politicians and traffic engineers are.
People would start petitions to kill the project by coming up with 100 reasons that buses are a colossal waste of money and buses would worsen the traffic, destroy the environment, create traffic hazards, etc...,
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  #4020  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2022, 2:58 PM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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You can't really compare the two. A lot of Victoria was developed before automobiles came into wide use (pre-WWII) so the focus was on denser walkable city while Kelowna was very small town until the 50s, at the start of the automobile era.

As for BRT, they're going to have to find a place to shoehorn a park and ride station in somewhere to attract residents in West Kelowna. Near Westbank Station, Save On Foods parking lot is mostly under utilized during the day if they could come to some agreement to rent out some spaces to commuters. Near Westside Road at Okanagan Lake Shopping Centre, same thing. Boucherie Mountain Exchange, there's an empty lot across the street they could use as a gravel parking lot until it gets redeveloped.
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