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  #2561  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2022, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
I totally understand her. I also watched an interview with her to hear her speak. She speaks a lot like francophones do where I live. Her accent isn't exactly the same as here but she uses a lot of English terminology, words to join sentences together and for some adjectives just like many of my francophone friends in Timmins do. But I'd say her accent/dialect isn't really out of the ordinary to me.
That's a singer from Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, for comparison. The contrast for such a nearby place couldn't be stronger.

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  #2562  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2022, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Pi is actually spelled "pis", and it's perfectly understandable. It's an old and rural form of "puis", as in "pis c'est tout" ("and that's it").
We still use it 100x more than you guys; where most people would say "toi et moi" on your side of the pond, on our side it's much more likely to be "toé pi moé".

But yeah, sure, your point - that it's pretty much standard French ("puis") - is valid.
     
     
  #2563  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2022, 9:14 PM
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"toé pi moé"
Is Montreal-style Joual spoken widely outside of greater Montreal?

Joual is an accepted name for the linguistic features of Quebec French that are associated with the French-speaking working class in Montreal

mange ma plotte.
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  #2564  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 2:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Is Montreal-style Joual spoken widely outside of greater Montreal?

Joual is an accepted name for the linguistic features of Quebec French that are associated with the French-speaking working class in Montreal

mange ma plotte.


I know what that means. I've heard it in Timmins.

Joual is definitely used here and the same swear words for the most part among francophones. A lot of the people who settled here who moved from Quebec back in the early days were not very educated and spoke with accents more extreme than what you would find in Quebec today. So you'll hear some joual in my region today that may not exist much anymore in Quebec.
     
     
  #2565  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post


I know what that means. I've heard it in Timmins.

Joual is definitely used here and the same swear words for the most part among francophones. A lot of the people who settled here who moved from Quebec back in the early days were not very educated and spoke with accents more extreme than what you would find in Quebec today. So you'll hear some joual in my region today that may not exist much anymore in Quebec.
Joual is present everywhere you have intergenerationally established French speakers in Canada. Or even in North .America. Jack Kerouac even spoke Joual.

It survives a bit more outside Québec in places like Timmins due to French having more of a kitchen language role there as opposed to a broader professional and societal role.

My kids and their friends use Joual terms on occasion but it's very often just to joke around.
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  #2566  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
That's a singer from Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, for comparison. The contrast for such a nearby place couldn't be stronger.

Video Link
Indeed. Though there are many singers from Quebec or even Maritime Acadie who sound way more like her than like Lisa Leblanc.

Lisa Leblanc's style is a choice, not a straitjacket she cannot get out of.
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  #2567  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
Yeah, it means nothing to me either. I can't get a thing of the song.
She's overdoing her Canadian accent on purpose and her lyrics would leave you like - huh?

That's uninteresting. Either you speak some decent French and write some meaningful lyrics, or you sell your shit in English.
That's it.
I think New Brisavoine was saying that he could understand her.
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  #2568  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 2:27 PM
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I think New Brisavoine was saying that he could understand her.
Not all of it, but a great part of it. There are current singers from the French banlieue that I understand far less than her.

For example that 'thing':

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French rap has declined considerably in the past 20 years, it's incredible (and this one here is not even the worst).
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  #2569  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 2:30 PM
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That was French rap 25 years ago, when it was actually pretty good, and fun, and creative musically speaking:

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  #2570  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
Yeah, it means nothing to me either. I can't get a thing of the song.
She's overdoing her Canadian accent on purpose and her lyrics would leave you like - huh?

That's uninteresting. Either you speak some decent French and write some meaningful lyrics, or you sell your shit in English.
That's it.
Such a colonial attitude

You can't understand it and yet you somehow have concluded that the lyrics are not meaningful?
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  #2571  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think New Brisavoine was saying that he could understand her.
I was being sarcastic. Again, it feels like the Canadian accent is overdone to the song, which is pointless in my opinion.
When they talk to the French media or even to their own, the Canadians don't speak quite like that, do they?

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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Not all of it, but a great part of it. There are current singers from the French banlieue that I understand far less than her.
Same here. I was thinking the same while commenting on that song.
I think the only French rapper I still have some respect for is Casey, precisely for the reason that she can actually use the language to write meaningful lyrics. She's usually bitchy, but that's a different story and her own problem.
At least, she made the effort to grow educated enough to use the language properly in most cases.

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Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
Such a colonial attitude

You can't understand it and yet you somehow have concluded that the lyrics are not meaningful?
What's the point of speaking a language if everyone spoils it by their weird slang or exaggerated accents?
At the end of the day, people can't even understand each other.

Traditionally, gangsters use their own slang to not be understood by strangers, but that's because they're in illegal businesses. So, corrupting the language is actually useful to them.
As for the rest of us, there's no use in doing that. It only makes it more difficult than it already is.

Anyway, this is a funny conversation.
     
     
  #2572  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 6:35 PM
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I was in Montreal recently and was talking to 3 guys from France on separate occasions. Each one told me I should move to Montreal. I said that I love visiting, but I can't speak a word of French. All three had the same basic response: "you don't need to know French to live in Montreal." I just thought it was an interesting observation. I've never had any issue as a completely unilingual anglophone anywhere in Quebec, but that was just as a tourist.
     
     
  #2573  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 6:50 PM
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You don’t need to know French to live in Montreal, although it cuts you off from some of the best parts of the city’s cultural life. The proportion of unilingual anglophones actually increased in the last census, possibly due to all the ROC anglos who moved here during the pandemic to take advantage of a lower cost of living and remote work opportunities.

Obviously I think it’s a shame if someone lives here and doesn’t ever learn French, but people are generally forgiving. After all, you have to start somewhere, and it’s not like you can become fluent in French by living in Toronto or Edmonton.
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  #2574  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 6:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mousquet View Post
When they talk to the French media or even to their own, the Canadians don't speak quite like that, do they?
The sample of Québécois that end up in the French media for whatever reason is likely somewhat biased towards having more of an international accent and less of a thick Québécois one.

I know that when I'm in France (hasn't happened recently, I'll admit), I can easily choose between speaking perfectly naturally or being 100% understood 100% guaranteed, but it's one or the other.
     
     
  #2575  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
You don’t need to know French to live in Montreal, although it cuts you off from some of the best parts of the city’s cultural life. The proportion of unilingual anglophones actually increased in the last census, possibly due to all the ROC anglos who moved here during the pandemic to take advantage of a lower cost of living and remote work opportunities.

Obviously I think it’s a shame if someone lives here and doesn’t ever learn French, but people are generally forgiving. After all, you have to start somewhere, and it’s not like you can become fluent in French by living in Toronto or Edmonton.
My nephew moved to Sutton, Quebec about five years ago to be close to his elderly parents. One has since died, and the other (my sister) is now in a nursing home. He works remotely for the city of Calgary (IS department), so employment is not a problem for him. Since he is in the townships, he can get by as an anglophone, but has been making an honest effort to learn French (more so than his parents did). I wouldn't say that he is bilingual, but he is able to make his needs known to any unilingual francophone he comes across.
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  #2576  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 7:28 PM
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Thought they were from Potton/Mansonville, but I guess it would make sense that the closest retirement home would be in Sutton which is slightly larger. Went hiking several times in the area (Sutton mounts), it's not that far from where I usually am. Small world

It's probably among the Anglo-est pockets of the Townships, so I'm sure he's fine. Second to Stanstead, I'd say. (If we dilute Lennoxville and North Hatley as "Sherbrooke".)
     
     
  #2577  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 7:32 PM
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... but has been making an honest effort to learn French (more so than his parents did).
That's really hard to understand for me (I've always loved intellectual challenges); if I had such a great opportunity to learn another language (by marinating in it for years), I'd avail myself of it for sure.
     
     
  #2578  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 8:08 PM
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https://nationalpost.com/opinion/barbara...s-freedom-platform-forcing-a-realignment

Barbara Kay: Quebec Conservative party's freedom platform forcing a realignment

MONTREAL — Covid changed everything, including political leanings. Quebec’s upcoming provincial election on Oct 3 offers a window onto those shifting sands

Disappointment with the Legault government’s Covid performance propelled Eric Duhaime, a seasoned newspaper and radio journalist, to leadership of the formerly marginal, now-energized Parti Conservateur du Québec/Conservative Party of Quebec (PCQ). At 53, more than 10 years younger than Premier François Legault, Duhaime is benefiting from some kind of perfect storm in the West that has restless, dissatisfied young adults, normally in thrall to left-leaning parties, turning their attention to conservative alternatives.

It’s happening in the U.S. centrist pundit David Brooks last year observed of young conservatives in an Atlantic article, “They grew up in the era of … identity politics. They went to colleges smothered by progressive sermonizing. And they reacted by running in the other direction.” In Canada, federally, a recent Abacus poll showed that the CPC found favour with 37 per cent of 18 to 29 year olds — more than for either the Liberals or the NDP.

And it is clearly happening in Quebec. Before Duhaime took the helm 15 months ago, the PCQ’s membership was a paltry 500 in number. Today, it boasts about 60,000 members. Despite only receiving 1.46 per cent of the vote in the 2018 provincial election that gave the CAQ a landslide victory, a July Angus Reid poll puts their support at 19 per cent, well behind the CAQ but ahead of the PLQ (Liberal Party), an astonishing leap.

“The tectonic plates of Quebec politics are realigning,” Duhaime told media gathered days ago to hear his platform, a conservative dream list. First and foremost, “more freedom.” Economically, this means tax cuts, suspension of the province’s gas tax and expansion of Quebec’ natural resources sector (he’d revive a dormant natural gas project). To fix Quebec’s eroding health-care system, Duhaime pledges a decentralized format and increased competition from the private sector. The PCQ would also offer more parental choice on early child care through weekly vouchers of $200 per child for those opting out of the government-run program.


As for Legault’s rights-decimating Bill 96, Duhaime’s scorn is genuine and unnuanced. For one thing, he told me in an interview, it suspends Quebec’s Charter of Rights “in 38 places” and “nobody should applaud a bill that takes away your rights and freedoms.” Duhaime added, “Anglos are our allies who want to make Quebec a better place to live.” (I’ve known Eric for a long time. His history supports the sincerity of this remark.)

According to Duhaime, anglophone support is up — it was at 22 per cent July 30 — with francophone support at 19 per cent. This near-parity is most unusual in Quebec, since anglophones have traditionally thrown massive support to the federalist Liberals. Anglo withdrawal from the Liberals can be directly traced to the Liberals’ flirtation with Bill 96 — first accepting its draconian provisions, then partially backtracking in the heat of the anglo backlash. Too little, too late.



With most of Quebec’s COVID-19 restrictions now gone, Quebec Conservative Party leader Éric Duhaime says he knew he needed to broaden his freedom message to stay relevant.


Using Covid as an excuse, Duhaime says, Legault has been playing the “politics of division” for the past two years, pitting the vaccinated against the unvaccinated, anglos against francos and necessary health measures against “by far the worst measures” that ended in Quebec’s embarrassingly high Covid-related mortality rate. (He himself says he would have applied something like the “light touch” Swedish model). Duhaime is appalled by the demonization of those urging restraint in vaccination policies. (Duhaime is himself vaccinated, but was the only Quebec politician who, on grounds of academic freedom, defended microbiology professor Patrick Provost when he was suspended for voicing concerns about vaccinating children.)


Duhaime resembles Pierre Poilievre. Like his federal counterpart, Duhaime has been a political junkie from youth. He’s brash, and confident before crowds, projecting passion that springs from authentic convictions, consistently applied. Like Poilievre, Duhaime supported the Freedom Convoy. Both are bringing aboard historically apathetic young people, now hungry for attention to their legitimate interests. Young families in the 35-55 age demographic are flocking to the PCQ, Duhaime told me, while conceding that CAQ completely owns Quebec’s senior citizens.

In one important way, Duhaime is luckier than Poilievre in his constituency. All federal conservative leaders have to deal with a social-conservative contingent that sucks up internal energy and provides low-hanging fruit for fear-mongering critics (see under Andrew Scheer et. al.). By contrast, politically speaking, social conservatism doesn’t exist in Quebec. Duhaime is the first openly gay conservative leader in Quebec and Canadian history. It’s not a big — or any size — deal here. Neither is abortion a point of discussion amongst Quebec conservatives. To his credit, although Duhaime has no intention of opening any debate on the subject, he welcomes candidates like my friend Roy Eappen — “Dr Roy,” the PCQ candidate in the riding of NDG — who is both gay and personally pro-life.


In July, underscoring his party platform’s unifying theme of freedom, Duhaime unveiled the cheeky PCQ slogan, “Libres chez nous,” a riff on the 1960s Quiet Revolution slogan, “Maîtres chez nous” (Masters in our own home). His critics find it hypocritical that he fiercely defends individual freedoms, but supports the controversial Bill 21, which proscribes religious symbols in state-sponsored sectors like education and the judiciary. But Duhaime sees no conflict between respect for religious freedom in general, and a citizen’s right to neutrality in his interactions with employees of the state. (Nor do I.) Apparently, many immigrants agree with Duhaime, because the PCQ has attracted candidates from 20 countries, including Ukraine, South Africa, Haiti, Lebanon, Peru and India.


The PCQ has come far fast, but not far enough for this election. Legault and his CAQ party are slated for another decisive win, although Leger polling CEO Jean-Marc Leger predicts a “tighter than expected” finale. Duhaime himself is the only PCQ candidate with a realistic shot at victory. His election prospects in his Chauveau riding are currently rated a toss-up. Time is on Duhaime’s electoral side, though, because he will participate in September’s televised leader debates, where his considerable polemical skills in both French and English could boost his fortunes. Colour me hopeful.

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  #2579  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 8:16 PM
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the campaign launch for the Quebec Tories looks pretty good today very good crowd size for a virtual brand new party:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tABJgiPATUw
     
     
  #2580  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2022, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
That's really hard to understand for me (I've always loved intellectual challenges); if I had such a great opportunity to learn another language (by marinating in it for years), I'd avail myself of it for sure.
My sister and brother-in-law were almost 50 when they moved to Quebec. His job (United Church minister) was entirely unilingual anglophone. They first moved to Howick, down in the Chateauguay Valley and assumed they would only be living in Quebec for five years or so. They never left Quebec. By the time they finally came to realize they had made a permanent move, they were about 60 or so. At a certain point in your life, it becomes difficult to learn a new language. They did try, but it didn't stick. My nephew has been having more success.
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