General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[YourBuddy]

How about taxing Airbnb rentals more instead of these sin taxes. How much of the homeless and affordability problems can be tracked to investors running these businesses and removing long term housing from the market? That makes more sense than making alcohol and weed more expensive.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by combusean

Arizona ranks 48th in per capita psychiatric beds to begin with. It's not like the state is just going to see the light and go on some funding and building spree.

If I've learned anything from working for a county superior court, its that getting anyone into Arizona State Hospital is insanely difficult.

You can Title 36 all you want, but if the contracted RBHA doesn't want the person in their facility, they'll cut them loose well before the 36 hours is up.

[xymox]

A nice little article that talks about Arizona's water supply - how the reductions on the Colorado won't have an apocalyptic outcome (as some news articles lead people to believe). Simply some facts.

https://azbigmedia.com/business/here-are-some-fast-facts-on-the-arizona-water-supply/

Bottom line - we're the best in the nation at managing our water - because we have to.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

A nice little article that talks about Arizona's water supply - how the reductions on the Colorado won't have an apocalyptic outcome (as some news articles lead people to believe). Simply some facts.

https://azbigmedia.com/business/here-are-some-fast-facts-on-the-arizona-water-supply/

Bottom line - we're the best in the nation at managing our water - because we have to.

People look at me sideways when I talk to them about water here. They think we are the same as SoCal but we actually have way more water than Socal and always did which is why they take 50% of the Colorado river. There are no substantial rivers in Southern California like the Colorado, Gila, Salt etc. Not even one as big as the freaking Verde. The LA "river" was little more than a wash before it was paved over. See below the largest river in a region of 20+ million people.



Despite 2020 with almost no rain, overall the last several years have been very rainy for AZ compared to the rest of the west. We have been arguably out of drought for well over a year.

[PHX-DUDE-MAN]

Originally Posted by Obadno

People look at me sideways when I talk to them about water here. They think we are the same as SoCal but we actually have way more water than Socal and always did which is why they take 50% of the Colorado river. There are no substantial rivers in Southern California like the Colorado, Gila, Salt etc. Not even one as big as the freaking Verde. The LA "river" was little more than a wash before it was paved over. See below the largest river in a region of 20+ million people.



Despite 2020 with almost no rain, overall the last several years have been very rainy for AZ compared to the rest of the west. We have been arguably out of drought for well over a year.

You are right, and Phoenix has a huge reservoir called Lake Roosevelt. Phoenix will be fine in the long run. Too much fear hyping by the media in my opinion. Moreover, why can't we build a water pipeline from the east coast to the west coast already?

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by Obadno

People look at me sideways when I talk to them about water here. They think we are the same as SoCal but we actually have way more water than Socal and always did which is why they take 50% of the Colorado river. There are no substantial rivers in Southern California like the Colorado, Gila, Salt etc. Not even one as big as the freaking Verde. The LA "river" was little more than a wash before it was paved over. See below the largest river in a region of 20+ million people.



Despite 2020 with almost no rain, overall the last several years have been very rainy for AZ compared to the rest of the west. We have been arguably out of drought for well over a year.

Yep, difference between us and So Cal is we get two rainy seasons. LA is bone dry during the summer. If only monsoon could be in the spring instead of mid to late summer we would never have a fire season. So cal might as well be a desert. I feel like we are in a much better spot for water in the future. If we get a good winter too we should be in pretty good shape. I don’t see why they don’t start desalting water in SoCal?

[YourBuddy]

Because desalination is very expensive. The Carlsbad plant charges $2700 per acre-foot. Arizona charge most users 150 per acre-foot. That’s all without mentioning you are looking at over $1b for 55k acre-feet. The federal government estimates we need between 2-4 million acre-feet.

[combusean]

Los Angeles has the California Aqueduct to bring NorCal's water down south, the Los Angeles Aqueduct to bring water from the Owens Valley, the Colorado River Aqueduct to bring water from there, and probably others.

California has senior water rights on the Colorado, which was a condition of Arizona building the CAP canal.

It is ridiculous to compare LA's water situation to Phoenix's. All Phoenix really has to itself is groundwater and the precarious Salt.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by YourBuddy

Because desalination is very expensive. The Carlsbad plant charges $2700 per acre-foot. Arizona charge most users 150 per acre-foot. That’s all without mentioning you are looking at over $1b for 55k acre-feet. The federal government estimates we need between 2-4 million acre-feet.

It's expected over the next 20 years those costs come down dramatically, enabling two things: 1. CA can sell their rights to the Colorado and rely more on desalination, 2. we can chase after a massive underground 'sea' in northern AZ which reported has a 400 year water supply. It needs to be desalinated and purified to be put to use and the cost to do so needs to come down before it's a viable source.

[YourBuddy]

Originally Posted by xymox

It's expected over the next 20 years those costs come down dramatically, enabling two things: 1. CA can sell their rights to the Colorado and rely more on desalination, 2. we can chase after a massive underground 'sea' in northern AZ which reported has a 400 year water supply. It needs to be desalinated and purified to be put to use and the cost to do so needs to come down before it's a viable source.

I mean they have been saying this for years. Yet it is still significantly more expensive. California could sell their rights to the Colorado River, which will likely be put at a premium price to offset the costs of desalination, to states like Arizona and Nevada. Only problem is you need actual Colorado River water to trade for.

The key should have always been much better conservation aimed at agriculture, and not letting it get to tier 1 shortage cuts after 2 decades.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

It is ridiculous to compare LA's water situation to Phoenix's. All Phoenix really has to itself is groundwater and the precarious Salt.

Okay so, want to make sure I get your position correct. LA has a BETTER water situation because it artificially pumped its water in from hundreds and hundreds of miles away

While Phoenix has local ground and river sources

Just making sure thats what you are arguing becuse it’s too big brain smart for me

[plinko]

Originally Posted by PHX-DUDE-MAN

Moreover, why can't we build a water pipeline from the east coast to the west coast already?

Gravity? You would be pushing water up thousands of vertical feet over hundreds of miles. Not exactly feasibile.

The state that's really f*cked with respect to Colorado River water is Nevada. The Virgin River is simply not a sufficient alternative source for Las Vegas.

[phoenixwillrise]

Hard to believe more effort hasn't been put into the drastic lowering of desalination costs. Also newer and more efficient ways of capturing rain water.
In AZ additional series of dams would also help, with millions of acres of desert land the environmentalist need to chill out and let the state dam up some of that desert to preserve more water run off. The lizards, snakes owls etc have plenty of other land to roam in. People's needs First!

[locolife]

Originally Posted by plinko

Gravity? You would be pushing water up thousands of vertical feet over hundreds of miles. Not exactly feasibile.

The state that's really f*cked with respect to Colorado River water is Nevada. The Virgin River is simply not a sufficient alternative source for Las Vegas.

I don’t think Utah is in much better shape, SLCs reservoirs are quite low as are other the places where the headwaters of the Colorado river form. They are receiving less precipitation, especially precious winter snowpack. Compound that with warmer/drier soil and even less runoff occurs as the ground soaks up more of the water before it gets to the river. Desalination seems to be where AZ leaders are putting long term focus, something like $1 billion of state budget and $4 billion from the feds to look at a means to desalinate near Rocky Point and I assume look at pumping water up to the Phoenix reservoirs… it’s super early but being relatively nearby the Sea or Cortez could prove to be Arizona’s best benefit in the future.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by plinko

Gravity? You would be pushing water up thousands of vertical feet over hundreds of miles. Not exactly feasibile.

The state that's really f*cked with respect to Colorado River water is Nevada. The Virgin River is simply not a sufficient alternative source for Las Vegas.

Wait, maybe I’m dumb but how come you can pump oil across the country but not water?

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

Wait, maybe I’m dumb but how come you can pump oil across the country but not water?

I would imagine that it has something to do with being able to use about 750 gallons of water (1 unit) for a little less than $9.00). Gas is much more profitable so pipelines get built by private companies. https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservicessite/Documents/WaterRateScheduleHistory10-1-21.pdf

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by combusean

The state of mental homes in the early 1980s prior to deinstitutionalization was FAR from isolated. And one of the issues that the Supreme Court decided on was that people who were involuntarily committed basically had no right of due process. Funding was an issue then as it is now.

People should be realistic. Arizona ranks 48th in per capita psychiatric beds to begin with. It's not like the state is just going to see the light and go on some funding and building spree.

Do you have a source for that stat?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by TJPHXskyscraperfan

Wait, maybe I’m dumb but how come you can pump oil across the country but not water?

The sheer scale of water needed to pump vs oil pumped and the value difference makes the idea completely economically unfeasible.

[Obadno]

The Scale of manufacturing the Valley has been locking down is incredible. this bodes very well for the broad health of the metro economically.

https://azbigmedia.com/business/corning-brings-100m-manufacturing-facility-250-jobs-to-gilbert/

Corning Incorporated announced today that it is expanding manufacturing capacity for optical cable, based on a long-term relationship with AT&T , the nation’s largest fiber internet provider, as the carrier expands its fiber service. Corning will build a new $100 million cable manufacturing facility in Gilbert, located in the Greater Phoenix region, adding approximately 250 jobs and extending Corning’s strategic investments in optical fiber, cable, and connectivity solutions to meet record demand.

The new facility is Corning’s latest in a series of investments in fiber and cable manufacturing totaling more than $500 million since 2020. These investments, supported by customer commitments, nearly double Corning’s ability to serve the U.S. cable market and connect more people and communities. Public and private investments in broadband, 5G, and the cloud are accelerating a large, multi-year wave of growth for fiber-based networks – and Corning, as the world leader in passive optical communications, is uniquely positioned to support these network builds.

READ ALSO: Gilbert ranks No. 1 in nation for luxury apartment construction

The Arizona facility, expected to open in 2024, will be the industry’s western-most U.S. manufacturing site for optical cable – allowing Corning to serve growing demand in the western U.S. and Canada.

“This investment is a significant step forward for our country and building world-class broadband networks that will help narrow the nation’s digital divide,” said AT&T Chief Executive Officer John Stankey. “This new facility will provide additional optical cable capacity to meet the record demand the industry is seeing for fast, reliable connectivity. We are also working with Corning to create training programs to equip the next generation of technicians with the skills to build the networks that will expand high-speed internet access to millions of Americans.”

Separately, AT&T announced today that it is deploying fiber internet service to the Mesa, Arizona, area, with service expected to be available to Mesa residents in 2023.

U.S. Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo, whose agency is spearheading the national “Internet for All” initiative, will join today’s announcement at Mesa Community College. Corning and AT&T are supporting the White House’s Talent Pipeline Challenge, a program to help employers build training partnerships that connect American workers to jobs rebuilding infrastructure, supply chains, and manufacturing. Corning and AT&T have created a program to train fiber optic technicians across the industry.

To build and deploy these networks, the industry will need another 850,000 workers through 2025. Corning and AT&T created the Fiber Optic Training Program, focused on equipping thousands of technicians with the skills critical to designing, installing, and maintaining a growing fiber network. The initial class is currently underway in North Carolina, and the program aims to train 50,000 American workers over the next five years.

“We believe access to broadband means access to opportunity – from education to healthcare to quality of life,” said Corning Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Wendell P. Weeks. “Corning is doing our part to make sure everyone – regardless of where they live – has access to reliable, high-speed connections enabled by optical fiber. We are proud to continue partnering with AT&T and to expand U.S. manufacturing capacity and train the next generation of American workers – and we’re grateful for the opportunity to work with our customers and with the U.S. government to make this a reality.”

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by Obadno

The Scale of manufacturing the Valley has been locking down is incredible. this bodes very well for the broad health of the metro economically.

https://azbigmedia.com/business/corning-brings-100m-manufacturing-facility-250-jobs-to-gilbert/

I agree with your conclusion but at 250 jobs, this is a relatively small site. I'm curious if there are spin off industries or local suppliers that receive a boost.