Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I definitely noticed this. Heck, even my French is sort of “modern”. My 3 years in France probably have to do it though. I often have to adapt whenever I go to some rural part of Quebec - depending on the generation involved it can sometimes feel like an entirely different dialect is spoken.

Can you still understand your parents then?

[vanatox]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Can you still understand your parents then?

He probably talk to them with disdain. He is a superior individual now

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Can you still understand your parents then?

It’s something else, let’s just say that.

Originally Posted by vanatox

He probably talk to them with disdain. He is a superior individual now

Quite the opposite actually, I try to use words like moé, icitte, etc., which I use only sparingly, normally. But it requires a bit of adaptation I admit. It’s fascinating how fast generational changes can happen language-wise.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Can you still understand your parents then?

Speaking of which, it reminds me that I have to ask his dad for a favor

(urbanism-related, though likely still best discussed via PM ...)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

That sounds quite 1990s. People wouldn't speak like that nowadays. More like "oh putain j'ai pété ta caisse" today. Even "niquer" in the sense of "to fuck" has because old-fashioned now. In the banlieue they use a verlan version of niquer now, which is "ken" (as in "J'ai bien ken hier"). Non banlieue types would just say "baiser".

Indeed, it was in the late 1990s

"Caisse" would have been the word back then if he'd fucked up the car, but he fucked up some piece of plastic, so I'm guessing we'd still go with a more generic word, and "oh putain j'ai pété ton truc" would be the likely modern equivalent.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Even women use it to address each other now, which I find super ridiculous.

Why not "soeurette"?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

Why not "soeurette"?

Go figure!

Soeurette was a colloquial term used by people in the old days. My aunt still calls my mother (her younger sister) "soeurette".

For young women, until recently they tended to address each other as "meuf" ("hé meuf, regarde..."), but in the past 3 years I've heard them use more and more "frèrot" which is so ridiculous for women...

https://www.letribunaldunet.fr/societe/pourquoi-jeunes-sappellent-frere-entre-eux.html

[New Brisavoine]

Talking of which.

• Video Link

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Speaking of history in the making... Le Devoir has a good series right now on how the French language is evolving in Quebec.

Creole and Maghreb Arabic influencing the language in Montreal to create a new « français montréalais » spoken by young people of various cultural origins:

https://www.ledevoir.com/societe/746046/...opulaire-francaise-flirte-avec-la-langue

Slang words and common expressions from France are becoming common in Quebec thanks to TV, rap music and YouTube. (No doubt the huge number of French immigrants/expats is helping things along in Montreal particularly...):

https://www.ledevoir.com/societe/746046/...opulaire-francaise-flirte-avec-la-langue

Interesting parallels with what’s happening to English in Toronto.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Pinard and canner are pretty old fashioned, especially canner. Young people using that seriously?

"Du coup", on the other hand, is a pretty current slang. Some young professionals abuse it the same way American graduates and undergrads abuse "like".

But the worst, not mentioned in this article, is "frèrot", which in a matter of just 5 years has become ubiquitous in Paris (and is so very annoying). Even women use it to address each other now, which I find super ridiculous. Even the children of the Parisian bourgeoisie use it, which is utterly ridiculous, like children of WASP upper-class using ghetto English slang.

Would frèrot be sort of like "b'y" is in Newfoundland? It once was for males but now applies to both males and females.

Also "dude" used to only refer to males in North America but over the last decade or so can be both genders. I think "dudette" was the term for females for a period of time.

[Acajack]

I've been travelling most of this week so late to the discussion, but as I've mentioned a few times I have noticed the adoption of Euro-French and International Francophonie terms and slang by my kids and their friends.

I knew stuff like "kiffer" and "du coup" which you definitely hear, in addition to "y'a pas de souci" and "chelou".

The article allowed me to identify the origins of a few other terms I've been hearing, like "c'est la hesse"...

[big T]

For all the talk of a supposed decline of French in the GMA (pick your stats right and anything goes I guess), it’s pretty obvious to me that Montréal has never been as integrated into the global francophonie. It’s truly and definitely the world's second French speaking place of influence in the (early) 21st century.

I suppose that doesn’t work as well as a campaign rallying cry, of course.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've been travelling most of this week so late to the discussion, but as I've mentioned a few times I have noticed the adoption of Euro-French and International Francophonie terms and slang by my kids and their friends.

I knew stuff like "kiffer" and "du coup" which you definitely hear, in addition to "y'a pas de souci" and "chelou".

The article allowed me to identify the origins of a few other terms I've been hearing, like "c'est la hesse"...

An acquaintance of mine actually used "chelou" recently, I had a laugh. To me, there's always a little tone / subtext of friendly French trolling in there - whenever a word like that is deliberately used.

The exact opposite is something you'll witness too - a fresh French arrival peppering their 100%-French-accent speech with Québécois jurons.

No big deal, just find it amusing in both cases

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Go figure!

Soeurette was a colloquial term used by people in the old days. My aunt still calls my mother (her younger sister) "soeurette".

And my dad still does to this day, for his little sister (my aunt, who's nearly 70 now).

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by big T

For all the talk of a supposed decline of French in the GMA (pick your stats right and anything goes I guess), it’s pretty obvious to me that Montréal has never been as integrated into the global francophonie. It’s truly and definitely the world's second French speaking place of influence in the (early) 21st century.

What are the other contenders? Abidjan? Kinshasa? Dakar? Unless we want to include places like Brussels, Geneva, Marseille..

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by big T

For all the talk of a supposed decline of French in the GMA (pick your stats right and anything goes I guess), it’s pretty obvious to me that Montréal has never been as integrated into the global francophonie. It’s truly and definitely the world's second French speaking place of influence in the (early) 21st century.

I suppose that doesn’t work as well as a campaign rallying cry, of course.

This.

The Montreal of today is far more visibly French than the Montreal of my childhood in the 1970s and early 1980s. And the clout of Montreal, globally, after declining and reaching a nadir in the mid 90s, is arguably (from a Francophonie perspective) greater now than it has ever been, given the improved economic and demographic situations of the city.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

What are the other contenders? Abidjan? Kinshasa? Dakar? Unless we want to include places like Brussels, Geneva, Marseille..

Not that long ago, Brussels, Geneva and maybe even Lyon would have been considered ahead of Montréal in terms of importance.

For better or for worse, rightly or wrongly, cities in the developing world are rarely considered in the equation.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I knew stuff like "kiffer" and "du coup"...

Probably unrelated, but I was taught to say "il faut que j'aille pisser un coup" for "I need to take a piss" by a French friend twenty years ago.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've been travelling most of this week so late to the discussion, but as I've mentioned a few times I have noticed the adoption of Euro-French and International Francophonie terms and slang by my kids and their friends.

I knew stuff like "kiffer" and "du coup" which you definitely hear, in addition to "y'a pas de souci" and "chelou".

The article allowed me to identify the origins of a few other terms I've been hearing, like "c'est la hesse"...

I have yet to hear any recent Euro-French influence among Franco-Ontarians. After spending last week in Southern Quebec, I noticed some new sayings from younger people. Mostly things I really didn't understand but I don't always understand younger English speaking people. Social media and immigration have really had an impact.

English in Canada has been influenced more recently by Australian and UK English due to social media, more travel and streaming TV. The Australian "no worries" has become quite common in English speaking Canada. I don't think I've really heard it used in the U.S..

And while I was leaving the Metro grocery store yesterday, I noticed a poster for comedian Mike Ward who will be performing in Timmins in October. For those who don't know, he is a bilingual comedian from Quebec who uses a lot of slang in both languages and definitely isn't funny to many woke people.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

"il faut que j'aille pisser un coup"

... suffices perfectly.

"I have to take a piss" is what one would say (it's very similar in both languages), while your version would be the equivalent to "I have to take some of a piss".

And to answer your semi-question, it's related-ish. Coup = hit/shot, in the general sense. "Du coup, ..." would be literally equivalent to "Following the shot/event, ..." while your slightly needlessly long pissing phrase would be "I need to go take a shot of piss" (where the "shot of" can and should be omitted, but still isn't complete nonsense). So, yes, same idea.