[Moncton] Downtown Developments

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think the rehabilitation of the Higgins Block has shown what can be accomplished with an enthusiastic and dedicated developer and property owner.

The trouble with the Flat Iron Building and the Subway Block is that they lies in that two block section in the middle of downtown Main Street which has badly gone to seed. Both of these buildings should be redeveloped at the same time to give the critical mass so that they can both succeed. It would also help if city hall could make redevelopment of this entire two block segment of Main Street a critical downtown priority.

I was actually thinking of the Higgins Block when I posted this. I'm also wondering about the mechanical systems in these buildings, as well as how sound they are structurally. Could they turn out to be a money pit for the developers? Something tells me they may need more than just a cosmetic face lift. Again, I really hope they are successful.

[MonctonRad]

This site plan for Crombie's Sobeys Plaza on Vaughan Harvey Blvd shows what their ultimate plans for this development are:



The land between the Shoppers Drug Mart and the VIA station has had a "for lease" sign on it for the last couple of years. I had been assuming they were looking at a single pad site for some type of food establishment, but, looking at the site plan, it seems like they are planning a small plaza instead.

It is right across Canada Street from the main Sobeys Plaza building, and adjacent to the VIA station, so I think it could be somewhat attractive for certain small businesses such as a coffee shop. I mention this because of the VIA station (which is mostly busy with travellers using Maritime Bus). I could see passengers whiling away some time getting a coffee or snack here before boarding.

The second "future development" would be a much harder sell. It is hidden in behind the Shoppers, and has no street presence on Vaughan Harvey. In fact, given the steep embankment there (next to the railway overpass), it would be almost invisible to passing traffic. Good luck with this one..........

[EasternFreeway]

One of the three sisters, Moncton, July 30 2022

[Fischbob]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

This site plan for Crombie's Sobeys Plaza on Vaughan Harvey Blvd shows what their ultimate plans for this development are:



The land between the Shoppers Drug Mart and the VIA station has had a "for lease" sign on it for the last couple of years. I had been assuming they were looking at a single pad site for some type of food establishment, but, looking at the site plan, it seems like they are planning a small plaza instead.

It is right across Canada Street from the main Sobeys Plaza building, and adjacent to the VIA station, so I think it could be somewhat attractive for certain small businesses such as a coffee shop. I mention this because of the VIA station (which is mostly busy with travellers using Maritime Bus). I could see passengers whiling away some time getting a coffee or snack here before boarding.

The second "future development" would be a much harder sell. It is hidden in behind the Shoppers, and has no street presence on Vaughan Harvey. In fact, given the steep embankment there (next to the railway overpass), it would be almost invisible to passing traffic. Good luck with this one..........

What I'd give to see Crombie do something a bit more transformative and urban with this prime location (referring to the entire property and not just the undeveloped portions).

[jonny golden]

There's so much vacant land in prime locations in the downtown area, this parcel being among them. A strip mall seems underwhelming, but alas that's probably exactly what we'll see eventually.

[MonctonRad]

Personally I don't mind the Sobeys plaza that much in this location.

Sure, the Main/Vaughan Harvey intersection is arguably the most important intersection in the city, and a simple retail plaza here might be considered a "lost opportunity", but there is a value to a downtown grocery store, and this plaza in itself is a driver for surrounding densification. I'm sure one of the reasons why the Junction Urban Village is being developed across the street is because of the proximity to the grocery store (and the liquor store and pharmacy). These amenities make the neighbourhood walkable. The same logic applies to the announced new nine storey building on the NW corner of Main/Vaughan Harvey and to densification in general in the downtown west end. Sure, some of this is due to the Avenir Centre, but some is also due to presence of the Sobeys Plaza.

One could quibble however about the amount of surface parking on site, and this could be valid, but I think the plaza itself is fine in this location.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Personally I don't mind the Sobeys plaza that much in this location.

Sure, the Main/Vaughan Harvey intersection is arguably the most important intersection in the city, and a simple retail plaza here might be considered a "lost opportunity", but there is a value to a downtown grocery store, and this plaza in itself is a driver for surrounding densification. I'm sure one of the reasons why the Junction Urban Village is being developed across the street is because of the proximity to the grocery store (and the liquor store and pharmacy). These amenities make the neighbourhood walkable. The same logic applies to the announced new nine storey building on the NW corner of Main/Vaughan Harvey and to densification in general in the downtown west end. Sure, some of this is due to the Avenir Centre, but some is also due to presence of the Sobeys Plaza.

One could quibble however about the amount of surface parking on site, and this could be valid, but I think the plaza itself is fine in this location.

I wonder if we'll ever see residential on that side of Vaughan Harvey? Looking at the map, there certainly is a lot of undeveloped land, mostly parking.

[Sandbagger]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

One could quibble however about the amount of surface parking on site, and this could be valid, but I think the plaza itself is fine in this location.

This is what is annoying to me. It is almost comically excessive. Looking at that site plan there are over 500 spaces on site (not even including parking at the rear) for a grocery store, liquor store, Dollarama and two little boutiques. I frequent this location semi-often and the lot is never even close to half full - even at its busiest times. It's not paid parking either so why not make use of it? They could have easily built something that either fronts Vaughn Harvey or takes advantage of the high profile corner as well and still have a huge lot.

Elmwood Drive Sobeys is like like this as well - also a newer construction. 300 spaces for a Sobeys and liquor store. Never even close to half full - ever.

[teebs]

Originally Posted by Sandbagger

This is what is annoying to me. It is almost comically excessive. Looking at that site plan there are over 500 spaces on site (not even including parking at the rear) for a grocery store, liquor store, Dollarama and two little boutiques. I frequent this location semi-often and the lot is never even close to half full - even at its busiest times. It's not paid parking either so why not make use of it? They could have easily built something that either fronts Vaughn Harvey or takes advantage of the high profile corner as well and still have a huge lot.

Elmwood Drive Sobeys is like like this as well - also a newer construction. 300 spaces for a Sobeys and liquor store. Never even close to half full - ever.

Totally agree with you - it's a terrible look for an alleged downtown.

I have no knowledge, but I'd bet it's the Sobeys corporates who insist their visibility from the street isn't compromised by precisely what you described, despite any and all common sense.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by Sandbagger

This is what is annoying to me. It is almost comically excessive. Looking at that site plan there are over 500 spaces on site (not even including parking at the rear) for a grocery store, liquor store, Dollarama and two little boutiques. I frequent this location semi-often and the lot is never even close to half full - even at its busiest times. It's not paid parking either so why not make use of it? They could have easily built something that either fronts Vaughn Harvey or takes advantage of the high profile corner as well and still have a huge lot.

Elmwood Drive Sobeys is like like this as well - also a newer construction. 300 spaces for a Sobeys and liquor store. Never even close to half full - ever.

Well they need 200 spaces to put the snow in the winter

What I’d love to see is a development like Quinpool centre in Halifax. Canadian Tire & Superstore are facing the road, there is a small amount of parking behind the building and there is a Residential tower on one of the corners. That whole area has really taken off because it’s so close to amenities like that.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Sandbagger

They could have easily built something that either fronts Vaughn Harvey or takes advantage of the high profile corner as well and still have a huge lot.

They could still do this, especially right on the apex of the parking lot right on the SE corner of the Main/Vaughan Harvey intersection, but I doubt we will see this any time soon.

There is just too much available land for development in the general area, including the remaining buildout of the Junction Urban Village, 1222 Main, the block of land between 1222 Main and the Avenir Centre and elsewhere in the downtown southwest end.

I'm sure this will remain purely a parking lot for the next 20-30 years or so.

[adamuptownsj]

I think it would be reasonable to want Crombie to sacrifice the ~30 spots between 1234 Main and Sobeys/Mobia for a 4-6 floor structure of some kind. Would repeat the cool 'courtyards on Main' motif Moncton has, with City Hall and Assomption Place being the others. I guess Avenir Centre too. The Vaughan Harvey side of the site is an issue for another year. This little spot would actually build up the street wall in a desirable location without killing too much parking, plus its own underground parking could be accessed from behind.

[JHikka]

Will agree with most that it's a bad look for a downtown to have a massive surface parking lot on a prime intersection. There's a lot to be done to urbanize this section of town, this parcel of land amongst them, but the first step would be to fill-in the remaining land with multi-use buildings and either remove the surface parking entirely or build an in-store parking garage for customers.

The issue is that I don't know how appealing it would be to live in a mid-rise residential wedged between an avenue where cars speed quickly and a surface parking lot. If people want to live in an apartment building surrounded by cars there are likely better options out by the TCH.

[MonctonRad]

According to the T&T, this restaurant (Euphoria) will open on August 12th.

It will be a "fusion" restaurant, offering Canadian, Mexican, Italian and Indian cuisine. The bar will be open until late at night (on the weekends). It is described as a fine dining establishment.

The owners indicate that they plan to open a second similar restaurant (probably under a different name) in Dieppe in about six months time.

[NBNYer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The owners indicate that they plan to open a second similar restaurant (probably under a different name) in Dieppe in about six months time.

The ground floor of Les terrasses du marché would be a great spot for such a restaurant and would fit with this timeline.

[MonctonRad]

The expansion of Tire Shack Brewing downtown has begun.

[bam63]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The expansion of Tire Shack Brewing downtown has begun.

Also of note. Ashford’s Lorentz street project is underway.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by bam63

Also of note. Ashford’s Lorentz street project is underway.

Really!

I drove by there not too long ago, and things were quiet. This is fresh news indeed.

These two buildings are large six storey buildings that will almost certainly require a tower crane.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by bam63

Also of note. Ashford’s Lorentz street project is underway.

I noticed that the other day. Campbell Auto is sill on the site though, so I wonder if they only plan on building the project one building at a time.

[Fischbob]

Great discussion on Main/Vaughan Harvey.

Even if we keep the existing a Sobeys/ANBL (and most of the parking!) intact, there's still plenty of scope to urbanize at least part of the site. Here's my quick and dirty concept, with the red outlines being mixed use midrise buildings/additions:



Here I've elected to try and create more of a pedestrian-oriented feel along Canada Street heading toward the Avenir Centre, while maintaining an open parking area for the train station. Shoppers would relocate into the base of one of the new buildings, but otherwise this doesn't really involve much disruption to existing retailers.

Keep in mind that Crombie/Sobeys also owns the Terminal Plaza property next door, so they would be quite capable of acting on this concept. Just a matter of whether or not they have a compatible vision for the site...